pitbulls

Biggravy22

Well-Known Member
Which part is a crock of bullshit?

The inital part about the specific duties of breed. Pitbulls were bred in some cases to fight, and for bull -baiting purposes. Neither of which most pitbull owners encourage at this point(Responsible owners). Pitbulls are very intelligent and at times can be very game. But not all pitbulls are as game as others. All dogs have the ability to bite, but not all have the ability or desire to fight.

Like moose at times he appears very very game. Especially when we visit my in-laws (they own a pit as well), and other times he get's humped by my brother in laws 15lb shitz szu (SP).

Also I hear that tasting jab alot. "Don't let him lick you he's just tasting you". Pitbulls do not value human flesh. Maybe i've been spoiled by the pitbulls I've met who are very Intelligent, Predictable, and loving, and I must say that's the majority. I do agree with you on one point. They're very intelligent and at times will do what they want. Also they have to be kept entertained or they will become destructive. Which can lead to other issues. But if you've been around all these different breeds Why the bias?
Same with FDD. You experience something and you realize "Hey, they weren't as bad as I thought."
 

bterz

Well-Known Member





STRAIGHT

FUCKING

KILLERS

:D

PS: I have since got the blue neutered, incase anyone was going to comment on it. That is a dog that was locked up in a cage since he was a puppy, and was raised to fight.

Ive seen other dogs (collies) try to attack him being protective over his ball, and all my dog did was look at him like damnnnn you're trippin.I just wanna say whats up :D
 

Biggravy22

Well-Known Member
So, what I see here is a situation where the dog owners did not take control. Females will do the same thing.

A dog's body English is comprised of far more than tail position.

You clearly see what Im saying though, And no. They thought it was cute and kinda laughed at first as to say "Pitbull huh?" Then they saw the seriousness of the situation and intervened. It Scared the shit out of me. Especially when I saw mooses reaction when the other dog became physically aggressive.
 

Sunnysideup

Well-Known Member
I understand about genetics. When dealing with a gene pool, you get a mixture of many different aspects. Pit Bulls are terriers. All terriers were all originally bred to hunt vermin. This includes Yorkies, Rat Terriers, JRT's, Pits, English bulls, etc. They can all be tenacious when going after prey. I agree, this is part of their genetic makeup. The part I disagree with in this line of reasoning is, genetically, terriers were bred to love humans. They were taught not to bite people and that is why they used them in the pit. Pit bull terriers were called the Nanny dogs because they would never allow anything to hurt the children of the family.

Many nowadays are chained or tied out, which increases a dog's sense of flight or fight and the only protection they have is their teeth.

It is true they have strong jaws, but so do many other types of dogs. Large dogs, especially undersocialized and undertrained, can hurt humans. Breed is not the key, poor breeding coupled with irresponsible dog owners and irresponsible parents cause dogs to bite, not a specific breed.

Oh, come on, man. That's like saying a border collie wasn't bred to herd. A Doberman wasn't bred as a police dog, a Rottie wasn't bred to work, and a Rhodesian Ridgeback wasn't bred to track lions. These dog breeds have all been selected for particular traits. It's why Great Danes think they're lap dogs. It's why Chihuahuas actually taste good (I'm kidding about that one, though I'm willing to give EnChihuahua a try), and why any heeler breed is damned good at heeling. How come bloodhounds have such a sensitive nose, eh?

I've owned and handled the following breeds:
Rottweiler
Shetland sheepdog
Australian sheepdog
Border collie
Labrador retreiver
Irish setter (STUPIDEST DOG ON EARTH!)
Great Dane
Pomeranian
Chihuahua
Bulldog, English
Bull terrier, English (the ones the that ugly nose)
American Pit bull terrier
American Staffordshire terrier
German Shepherd
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Beagle
And more mutts than I can count.

Anyone care to guess which dogs were toughest to work with? A hint: Any smart animal is going to be more difficult to work with, especially if it has a will of its own (and many of them do).

That was special, just for the rattlesnake handler, wasn't it? :lol:

Not "dog" aggressive, animal aggressive. All pit breeds were initially bred to help butchers in handling large animals, such as cattle. They have also been bred for "moxie", never-give-upedness. Now, how many of you who insist pits aren't dangerous have handled cattle, in particular uncut bulls? Ever been in the same enclosure with such an animal? Horses DO NOT count, they aren't even close in temperament. Rottweilers, as a breed, go back to Roman times. They were bred to work and guard. And they're quite good at that.

The other issue, the real issue in my book, with specific regard to bull and pit breeds, is that getting a little "nip" from one of them is like being "tasted" by a great white shark. How often do cocker spaniels lock onto someone, requiring force such as crowbars or a shot to the head to release them? I have yet to find such an instance.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Few breeds seem to have the propensity to grab onto something and hold on in the manner pits do. Why is that? Because, none of these breeds were bred to handle large, AGGRESSIVE cattle. I ask again, how many of you pit owners have handled cattle, especially uncut bulls? If you haven't, if you've just watched them from the other side of the fence, then I'll suggest you try getting up close and personal with an animal that is not Daisy the dairy cow (which can still be a rough animal to handle, they will knock you about with their heads quite easily). Speaking of hard heads, would you say pits don't have them? They surely are copiously muscled, and with mighty big jaws to go along with, to boot.

You've found the single video of the single comparison that seems to be available. However, are you going to use this to say that a cocker spaniel's attack is going to have the same results as that of a pit? I don't think we can take the results from three representatives of their breeds as the end-all be-all in definitive science, do you?

This is the thing people are failing to appreiate, on an overall level, and it's really rather like fishkeepers who are so surprised that their fish ate that other fish and it wasn't "supposed" to. Of course, any dog is going to bite. But that Chihuahua that's so foul-tempered? It's going to barely break the skin. Put that aggression and personality into an animal with a relatively massive head and neck, what do you think is gonna happen?
The inital part about the specific duties of breed. Pitbulls were bred in some cases to fight, and for bull -baiting purposes. Neither of which most pitbull owners encourage at this point(Responsible owners). Pitbulls are very intelligent and at times can be very game. But not all pitbulls are as game as others. All dogs have the ability to bite, but not all have the ability or desire to fight.

Like moose at times he appears very very game. Especially when we visit my in-laws (they own a pit as well), and other times he get's humped by my brother in laws 15lb shitz szu (SP).
The current situation as it stands now does not negate how the breed came to be in the first place, and frankly I fail to understand why anyone would insist that dog breeds were not bred for specific traits. I mean, what else is the point of breeding? There's a reason why pit bull breeds are called what they are. The only thing modern breeders seem to be doing now, with the exception of those who breed actual working dogs, is to breed for type and conformation. We're not talking about individual dogs here, we're talking about breed types and making generalizations. For every instance of exception one can come up with, another can refute.

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Ridgies were not bred for guarding the farm, the stock, or for hunting lions, yes? If so, then why is it also known as the African Lion Hound? Why were they selected in the manner they were? Pick any other breed or breed type, and explain how it came to be if it weren't because it was being bred for a purpose.

If so, then why are terriers even called terriers? Why would border collies, when not presented with animals to herd, still feel the need to herd, even to the point of dangerous behaviors such as "herding" passing cars? Just because an individual within a breed does not display all breed characteristics does not equate to that breed NOT being bred for those very characteristics. I think you're really way off base in that assertion.
Also I hear that tasting jab alot. "Don't let him lick you he's just tasting you". Pitbulls do not value human flesh. Maybe i've been spoiled by the pitbulls I've met who are very Intelligent, Predictable, and loving, and I must say that's the majority. I do agree with you on one point. They're very intelligent and at times will do what they want. Also they have to be kept entertained or they will become destructive. Which can lead to other issues. But if you've been around all these different breeds Why the bias?
You didn't really read my post thoroughly. You're already on the defensive about your dog, and honestly you should be. You should be, specifically because of his size and power, on the lookout for any of these traits that might make him a dangerous animal. You're reading a bias where it doesn't exist, unless you're reading that comment about a nip from a pit being a little like a taste from a great white as a "bias". Personally, I DETEST allowing any dog to lick me. It makes my skin itch and it's just fucking creepy when they sneak the lick in, especially on the back of my leg. :x
Same with FDD. You experience something and you realize "Hey, they weren't as bad as I thought."
Excuse me? I don't think you are anywhere close to knowing me well enough to draw any sort of comparison, even one like that.
 

Sunnysideup

Well-Known Member
I ask again, how many of you pit owners have handled cattle, especially uncut bulls?
I have. This is me, this is my family....I am putting this out here against my better judgement....However, if it somehow makes you feel compelled to listen to our points I will put it out here. I guess this qualifies me to speak for the pitts.
*Edited*
 

bterz

Well-Known Member
Few breeds seem to have the propensity to grab onto something and hold on in the manner pits do. Why is that? Because, none of these breeds were bred to handle large, AGGRESSIVE cattle. I ask again, how many of you pit owners have handled cattle, especially uncut bulls? If you haven't, if you've just watched them from the other side of the fence, then I'll suggest you try getting up close and personal with an animal that is not Daisy the dairy cow (which can still be a rough animal to handle, they will knock you about with their heads quite easily). Speaking of hard heads, would you say pits don't have them? They surely are copiously muscled, and with mighty big jaws to go along with, to boot.

You've found the single video of the single comparison that seems to be available. However, are you going to use this to say that a cocker spaniel's attack is going to have the same results as that of a pit? I don't think we can take the results from three representatives of their breeds as the end-all be-all in definitive science, do you?

This is the thing people are failing to appreiate, on an overall level, and it's really rather like fishkeepers who are so surprised that their fish ate that other fish and it wasn't "supposed" to. Of course, any dog is going to bite. But that Chihuahua that's so foul-tempered? It's going to barely break the skin. Put that aggression and personality into an animal with a relatively massive head and neck, what do you think is gonna happen?

The current situation as it stands now does not negate how the breed came to be in the first place, and frankly I fail to understand why anyone would insist that dog breeds were not bred for specific traits. I mean, what else is the point of breeding? There's a reason why pit bull breeds are called what they are. The only thing modern breeders seem to be doing now, with the exception of those who breed actual working dogs, is to breed for type and conformation. We're not talking about individual dogs here, we're talking about breed types and making generalizations. For every instance of exception one can come up with, another can refute.

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Ridgies were not bred for guarding the farm, the stock, or for hunting lions, yes? If so, then why is it also known as the African Lion Hound? Why were they selected in the manner they were? Pick any other breed or breed type, and explain how it came to be if it weren't because it was being bred for a purpose.

If so, then why are terriers even called terriers? Why would border collies, when not presented with animals to herd, still feel the need to herd, even to the point of dangerous behaviors such as "herding" passing cars? Just because an individual within a breed does not display all breed characteristics does not equate to that breed NOT being bred for those very characteristics. I think you're really way off base in that assertion.

You didn't really read my post thoroughly. You're already on the defensive about your dog, and honestly you should be. You should be, specifically because of his size and power, on the lookout for any of these traits that might make him a dangerous animal. You're reading a bias where it doesn't exist, unless you're reading that comment about a nip from a pit being a little like a taste from a great white as a "bias". Personally, I DETEST allowing any dog to lick me. It makes my skin itch and it's just fucking creepy when they sneak the lick in, especially on the back of my leg. :x

Excuse me? I don't think you are anywhere close to knowing me well enough to draw any sort of comparison, even one like that.

All facts and opinion aside, you should raise a pitbull and have some fun with it. :bigjoint: Makes a good smoking partner.

No, I do not get my dogs high, but they're still fun to kick it with while I smoke a B-load :fire:

I have no real friends :wall: except :leaf: :-P :weed:
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I would consider a pit at this time if it weren't a terrier. And the last thing I need to add to my life is the unholy hell that is the terrier. :lol: My Ridgie is bad enough (and, quite literally, the toughest dog I have EVER handled, you saw my list, yes?) as it is.

My dogs hound me, constantly. I have few friends, too, I am very selective and find dogs to be much easier, overall, to deal with. :D (If they didn't shit so much I'd probably have a lot more.)
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Pits are Pits....any dog behaves well with a good owner...any dog behaves badly with a bad owner. But anyone who thinks that a pit treated badly is less likely to do harm than a retriever treated badly is kidding themselves, and that's why you could say they're "dangerous". It's a powerful animal with breeding that makes them physically and mentally capable of doing a lot of damage, but if taken care of correctly then they are wonderful dogs. The main problem is that people don't take care of them well...you can get away with it with a lot of other breeds, but if you don't take good care of your pit then you are going to have issues. That being said- if you can't manage the dog, DON'T GET IT.
I've got to put bells on that. Here's a little something from the RRCUS. In order to be a breeder whose dogs are held in this registry you must agree to breed standards as well as a Code of Ethics regarding dispensation of the resultant dogs. My own dog somehow ended up in the animal shelter (twice by the time she was 6mos.), and if she was bred by someone belonging to this registry their membership would immediately be revoked. Pay especially close attention to the SALES portion of this code of ethics. Does this exist for any breeders of any pit breeds?
CODE OF ETHICS
Revised 2/96, 1/99, 1/00, 6/06, 7/07
This Code of Ethics is presented as a guide for members whose foremost aims should be the welfare and improvement of the Breed. The purpose of these guidelines is to set forth minimum principles of practice to which the Rhodesian Ridgeback Club of the United States, Inc. (RRCUS) would have its members adhere, as they strive to accomplish the goals and purposes set forth in the constitution and bylaws of the RRCUS. These guidelines are presented with the realization that ethics are difficult to regulate and that most individuals desire and intend to do what is right.
I. HEALTH
1. All dogs shall be kept in a clean, healthy, and safe environment.
2. Dogs will be provided with all nutrition, exercise, socialization, vaccinations, deworming, and external parasite control and appropriate veterinary treatment necessary to provide maximum mental and physical well being.
3. When a Rhodesian Ridgeback (neonate through adult) must be euthanized, the procedure should be humanely performed.
II. BREEDING: A breeder's aim and foremost responsibility shall be to produce the healthiest and best representatives of the breed possible.
1. Each litter shall be the result of conscientious planning, including consideration of physical and genetic health, soundness, temperament and conformity to the official standard of the breed as established by the RRCUS and approved by the American Kennel Club (AKC).
a. In order to protect the health and safety of the stud dog and brood bitch (as well as resulting puppies) it is recommended that both dog and bitch have pre-breeding veterinary screenings to certify that they are in good breeding condition. Tests may include, but are not limited to:
brucella test, urinalysis (dog), vaginal exam, and vaginal culture.
b. Only dogs screened and certified clear of hip and elbow dysplasia by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, Pennhip or comparable foreign registry shall be bred. Other recommended genetic testing includes a complete thyroid panel* from an OFA-approved laboratory or canine endocrinologist, cardiac certification (OFA or cardiologist evaluation) CERF* and BAER. Breeders shall endeavor to stay current in their knowledge of all known inheritable diseases present in the breed and demonstrate reasonable care in eliminating those diseases.
(*indicates annual re-test requirement)
c. Only mature adult dogs shall be used in a breeding program. Additional precautions, including a veterinarian consultation, should be taken when breeding a bitch over seven (7) years and under 18 months of age. Dogs and bitches under 24 months of age may only be bred if preliminary genetic clearances have been obtained (see “B” above)
2. Only purebred, American Kennel Club (AKC) [or equivalent] registered Rhodesian Ridgebacks shall be used for breeding.
3. A litter should only be bred with the intention of producing conformation and performance candidates and not for the pet market alone.
4. When entering into a breeding agreement a written contract shall be signed and dated by all owners and co-owners of the sire and dam. Full disclosure of all test results for inheritable disease shall be made available to all parties.
5. Breeders and stud dog owners are held responsible for the progeny of their dogs. Both are required to assist in the placement and care of any dog in rescue that is either bred by them or sired by a dog that is owned, co-owned or leased by them. “Breeder is defined as the owner, co-owner or lessee of the broodbitch at the time of whelp. Stud dog owner is defined as the owner, co-owner or lessee of the stud dog at the time of the breeding.”
III. SALES: Members must be particularly concerned with the proper placement of adults as well as puppies, both pet and show potential.
1. Rhodesian Ridgebacks should not be displayed in public places or on the internet for the sole purpose of immediate sale.
2. Breeders shall require purchasers to spay or neuter any dog that is not considered breedable quality and make use of limited registrations where appropriate. If puppies with serious defects or faults (dermoid sinus, ridgelessness) are sold rather than culled, the breeder must take the extra responsibility to see that the dog is spayed or neutered. Dermoid surgery should be performed prior to placing the pup in a new home.
3. Members will not knowingly furnish puppies or adult dogs for wholesale, pet shops, puppy brokers, commercial facilities, guard dog businesses or agents thereof, or dispose of them as “Give away” prizes or auction items; neither will they sell puppies to nor breed to dogs owned by those whom they have reason to believe may do so.
4. Members will not dispose of dogs or puppies by giving them to the local animal shelter, pound, humane society or any organization of that type.

5. AKC (or equivalent) Registration papers or a bill of sale stating sire, dam, and date of birth shall accompany puppies as they go to new homes.
6. Breeders shall furnish the buyer with written details on feeding, dates of inoculations, deworming, and general care of the dog and the name and address of a licensed veterinarian who has examined the puppy after the age of six weeks. Furthermore, full written disclosure of inheritable disease testing done on both sire and dam shall be enclosed in the puppy packet when the puppy leaves the breeder’s home.
7. Responsibility of the breeder does not stop with the sale. The breeder should be available for consultation and to assist in the recovery and placement of any dog sold by the breeder if such need arises at any time in the dogs’ life.
IV. REGISTRATION AND RECORDS
a. All members shall keep complete and accurate records of individual dogs, breedings, litters, pedigrees, and puppy sales as required by the AKC, and abide by the AKC rules and regulations.
b. Whenever a dog changes in ownership all parties shall enter into a signed and dated written agreement.
V. CONDUCT: Members shall do all within their power to uphold, promote and protect the interests of the breed by conducting themselves in a manner reflecting credit on the Club, its members, their dogs, and the dog world in general.
1. Members shall abide by the rules and regulations of the AKC (or the rules under which an event is held), and exhibit in the spirit of good sportsmanship, treating all present with respect and courtesy.
2. Hotels and show grounds shall be treated with respect and left in a clean condition.
3. Consideration of other guests in the hotel is imperative, dogs creating a disturbance are to be attended to immediately, and precautions taken to see that it does not happen again.
4. A member does not engage in false or misleading statements regarding a judge, official, exhibitor, fellow member, another dog, or misrepresentation of their own dogs through claims or advertising.
5. Documented misconduct or violation of this Code of Ethics should objectively and calmly be presented to the proper representative of RRCUS or the AKC when appropriate.
Education and communication are the preferred methods of obtaining compliance to this Code of Ethics; however, flagrant, serious and/or repeated disregard of this code may result in formal charges brought before the RRCUS Board of Directors by RRCUS members, nonmembers and/or the Ethics Committee. Contract violations as well as slanderous or libelous allegations between members shall be adjudicated in the courts prior to presentation to the proper representatives of the RRCUS.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I forgot to add that my Ridgie is, BY FAR, the most powerful, dominant, intelligent, RELENTLESS fucking dog I have EVER worked with. I thought border collies were intelligent and relentless. Not compared to Hazel. She gives my sister's BC a serious run for her money, and then she's dumb enough to think that she can run Hazel into the ground. She ran herself into the ground trying to run Hazey-Haze into the ground. :lol: Poor Reba. I thought Rotties were the most powerful. The 120lb. Rottie we had was nothing compared to Hazel's 80lbs., and I was in much better shape close to 20 years ago when we had him than I am in now.
 

GrowSpecialist

Well-Known Member
Why all the pit bull hatin'? I have 3 dogs. One is a pit. I'm a wanna be thug who's insecure about my manhood because I have a pit? Thats actually one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this site. Pit bulls are just beautiful dogs in my opinion.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Why all the pit bull hatin'? I have 3 dogs. One is a pit. I'm a wanna be thug who's insecure about my manhood because I have a pit? Thats actually one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this site. Pit bulls are just beautiful dogs in my opinion.
Yeah, they're just misunderstood as are all their owners, right? So, you're saying the stereotype evolved in a vacuum.
 

GrowSpecialist

Well-Known Member
Yeah, they're just misunderstood as are all their owners, right? So, you're saying the stereotype evolved in a vacuum.
I didn't say anything about whether the stereotypes placed on pit bulls are true or not. Maybe they are. I'm saying that these silly stereotypes now being placed on pit bull OWNERS are ridiculous. In fact, I'll compromise even further here... YES, a lot of the pit bull owners are wanna be thugs who think that having a pit makes them seem tougher... but not ALL of us are like that. My old lady and I just think that pits are beautiful and have a lot of personality.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I didn't say anything about whether the stereotypes placed on pit bulls are true or not. Maybe they are. I'm saying that these silly stereotypes now being placed on pit bull OWNERS are ridiculous. In fact, I'll compromise even further here... YES, a lot of the pit bull owners are wanna be thugs who think that having a pit makes them seem tougher... but not ALL of us are like that. My old lady and I just think that pits are beautiful and have a lot of personality.
Ok! :D That I can totally agree with.

I saw the same type of thing when I showed, trained and bred Arabian horses. There were these people, usually men from states like Texas, who just HAD to have an Arabian stallion. Didn't know shit about horses, let alone the vagaries of the uncut male horse, let alone the dangers of going out and riding that horse on their local trails and, oh SHIT! He gets like that when there's a mare in heat...? Next thing you know, they owned an Arabian gelding. :lol: Assholes.
 

Sunnysideup

Well-Known Member
LOL now that is funny!
So true, so funny!
Good one.

Ok! :D That I can totally agree with.

I saw the same type of thing when I showed, trained and bred Arabian horses. There were these people, usually men from states like Texas, who just HAD to have an Arabian stallion. Didn't know shit about horses, let alone the vagaries of the uncut male horse, let alone the dangers of going out and riding that horse on their local trails and, oh SHIT! He gets like that when there's a mare in heat...? Next thing you know, they owned an Arabian gelding. :lol: Assholes.
 
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