plant keeps snapping small branches

Hydro4life · Apr 1, 2019

Thundercat said:
You guys can grow your plants however you want I'm not trying to say its "wrong", but smashing a plant into a scrog just isn't the most effective use of the scrog method. At that point you have grown a big plant and your mostly using the screen as support. If you grow your plant into the scrog screen then you ONLY veg as much plant as you really need to. You want all your buds at or above the screen so why veg out tons of plant under the screen? I saw pictures of a garden on IG today where the guy had plants woven into a screen 2.5-3 feet above the pots. Nothing but mostly bare stems below the screen.

Well if your growing it in and the plant is small, I really don't know why you are snapping stems. New growth tips should be pretty flexible and you shouldn't be bending more then an inch or 2 at a time really. Gently giving the stem a slight press and twist before you bend might help loosen the cell walls a little and make it smoother.

Real SCROGs aren't just about supporting your branches they are about defined canopy control. I'm sorry Hydro, but that last picture is NOT a scrog. That is you using those ropes to support your branches. Scrogs have screens that the plants are woven and grown into.

I know what you mean thundercat and get frustrated too when i see people put up a sgrog but dont use it to create a horizontal, even canopy. Its all about being patient and gently bendinding to spread the plant out and during stretch carry on with horizontal training. The one ive shown has now been propped up (and spread out horizontally to not have to lollipop the bottom half of the plant lol. Anyway works for me as i have a fixed scrog net in flower room and it is easy to bring a plant in from veg into flower room without having to have independant scrog nets for each plant. And thats fine thundercat, you are entitled to your opinion. But i have no vertical growth until after day 10 of flowering. I dont see how thats using ropes to support a 1 pound plant!? Those few ropes were used on the outside of the scrog net as the brances had grown horizontally away from the light. The string simply is used to pull the outside branches back towards the light.

Thundercat · Apr 2, 2019

Well thankfully no matter how loosely you define a "scrog", the OP seems to have one from the picture he posted. The real question was why can't he bend the stems without breaking them??

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Dont mean to sound like a dick thundercat but 2 days after flip. Its a make do scrog. But still a scrog none the less. And yes your right. My advice to OP is get some silica. Itl really help with stem strength!! Will take a couple of days before you really notice the extra stem strength from my experience.

Thundercat · Apr 2, 2019

Like I said call it what you want, but the OP has a screen he is growing the plant into, you have a trellis system you are supporting the plant with. I'm not saying you're doing something wrong, I'm just saying its not a traditional scrog, and so I don't see the point in calling it one. It doesn't make you cooler or make your grow better. You're just stretching the use of a term for the sack of it.

Also I really wouldn't be going around posting pictures of those plants bragging that you got 2 lbs off 1200 watts, thats not impressive. I typically pull roughly 8-900g from a single 1k in a 4x4, and thats not impressive so I don't brag about it

.

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Thundercat said:
Like I said call it what you want, but the OP has a screen he is growing the plant into, you have a trellis system you are supporting the plant with. I'm not saying you're doing something wrong, I'm just saying its not a traditional scrog, and so I don't see the point in calling it one. It doesn't make you cooler or make your grow better. You're just stretching the use of a term for the sack of it.

Also I really wouldn't be going around posting pictures of those plants bragging that you got 2 lbs off 1200 watts, thats not impressive. I typically pull roughly 8-900g from a single 1k in a 4x4, and thats not impressive so I don't brag about it .

The whole point to a scrog is to expose as many nodes/colas to light and create an even canopy. Matching verical growth to light wattage/penetration. It doesnt matter how you do it thundercat. The end result is the same! Saying NOT to put a big plant under a scrog at flip is very misleading. Im not bragging or trying to be cool about getting 1gpw. Maybe you are with your 800 - 900g under a single 1k? But am simply showing the OP there is no wrong way of growing. We do the best we can with our set ups/budget. And sorry i didnt realise it wasnt a scrog because my scrog was initiated later than yours!? Maybe ill have to make a new name up for it? How does Trellis, rope supporting, cool guy scrog sound?

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Ive seen alot of your posts thundercat, and respect you and your growing skills. Youve got some good experience and offer alot of good knowledge! I just dont agree with you here thats all.

Thundercat · Apr 2, 2019

trellising isn't something new, and thats my point dude. just using proper terms so we don't confuse the new guys. I'm not bragging, just comparing our similar results

and saying that niether is crazy impressive.

I never said he would hurt his plants by adding support screen or trellisis later, I said it wasn't a traditional scrog. You very right we all do grow our own ways, and I'm a firm believer in that. You grow perfectly nice plants and I never slighted you or your grow, just stated it wasn't really a scrog either, more of a trellis.

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Humble reply. Thank you thundercat. Yes not overly impressive but were doing good enough i think haha. I suppose i was just trying to say its not all bad to do it this way. Im happy with how it works for me with my set up. Next thing ill be doing is upgrading my make do netting i think haha. Anyway. Meant no dis respect thundercat. Look foward to reading your future posts man!

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Lethidox said:
this is what i've found

Sadly, the one place silicon cannot be used to grow cannabis is when it is grown hydroponically. That is the reason that hydro-grown plants are a little weaker. The reason? In order for Silicon to stay soluble, it requires a pH higher than 7. As a result, it cannot be included in a normal hydroponic feed. It would interact negatively with the other elements and lead to nutrient deficiencies. The only kind of silicon you find in such feeds are an additive called Potassium Silicate.

https://www.cannabis.info/en/blog/growing-use-silicon

makes no sense to me tbh because i know the liquid silica's i use all state potassium silicate. unless they are referring to maybe powdered forms i really don't find any other info otherwise relating to TDS and silica use in DWC

Rhino skin from advanced nutrients (which i use) is supposed to be the best and yes it is potassium silicate, my understanding is the plant wont take up silicon by itself but in potassium silicate form the plant thinks its uptaking potassium and when absorbed the silica will bind to the plants cell walls. Rhino skin was rated the best silica for dwc. And it does work from my experience. I personally use it in veg if needed with no adverse effects that ive seen and usually hit it with one full strength dose early flowering. Works well for me anyway.

callies · Apr 2, 2019

Hydro4life said:
Dont mean to sound like a dick thundercat but 2 days after flip. Its a make do scrog. But still a scrog none the less. And yes your right. My advice to OP is get some silica. Itl really help with stem strength!! Will take a couple of days before you really notice the extra stem strength from my experience.View attachment 4310714

thats how ive always done it when i was growing in a tent
im not a fan of using additives but id rather use it over braking more branches. i can get silica from one place online for $25 letter. Rhino skin is like $25 for 250ml . does Rhino skin have a self buffer in it like PH perfect advanced nutrients does

callies · Apr 2, 2019

Thundercat said:
You guys can grow your plants however you want I'm not trying to say its "wrong", but smashing a plant into a scrog just isn't the most effective use of the scrog method. At that point you have grown a big plant and your mostly using the screen as support. If you grow your plant into the scrog screen then you ONLY veg as much plant as you really need to. You want all your buds at or above the screen so why veg out tons of plant under the screen? I saw pictures of a garden on IG today where the guy had plants woven into a screen 2.5-3 feet above the pots. Nothing but mostly bare stems below the screen.

Well if your growing it in and the plant is small, I really don't know why you are snapping stems. New growth tips should be pretty flexible and you shouldn't be bending more then an inch or 2 at a time really. Gently giving the stem a slight press and twist before you bend might help loosen the cell walls a little and make it smoother.

Real SCROGs aren't just about supporting your branches they are about defined canopy control. I'm sorry Hydro, but that last picture is NOT a scrog. That is you using those ropes to support your branches. Scrogs have screens that the plants are woven and grown into.

i probably am trying to tuck branches before they are big enough also maybe keeping my light a bit close so its not starching enough i keep it around 18inch from the tops.ill have to try 22 inches . my last grow it was @ 32 inches with too much stretch

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

callies said:
thats how ive always done it when i was growing in a tent
im not a fan of using additives but id rather use it over braking more branches. i can get silica from one place online for $25 letter. Rhino skin is like $25 for 250ml . does Rhino skin have a self buffer in it like PH perfect advanced nutrients does

I cant remember why rhino skin got rated the best? I think it was easier for the plant to uptake? Im not sure about the self buffer? I use it with ph perfect and have had no lockout from it, but that may be the ph perfect itself? I have been told to put the silica in water and let it stabilise before adding to res. Then adjust ph accordingly. With mine i just put 2mls per litre in and walk away lol. Alot of the time just once early flower and the branches really stiffen up!

callies · Apr 2, 2019

Hydro4life said:
I cant remember why rhino skin got rated the best? I think it was easier for the plant to uptake? Im not sure about the self buffer? I use it with ph perfect and have had no lockout from it, but that may be the ph perfect itself? I have been told to put the silica in water and let it stabilise before adding to res. Then adjust ph accordingly. With mine i just put 2mls per litre in and walk away lol. Alot of the time just once early flower and the branches really stiffen up!

i dont exactly get how to use other additive correctly apart from cal mag. when using additives do you need to reduce the amount of base nutrients to compensate for the extra ppm that the additives have. and do you mix up your rez with all base and additives then just top up your rez with base the the week until you change it out

Lethidox · Apr 2, 2019

Hydro4life said:
I use rhino skin at 2mls per litre. It can throw your ph out aparrently. So add it first before adding other nutes and ph'ing. I use ph perfect so dont have to worry about that side of things. Silica will strengthen cell walls making stems/stalks stronger and only takes a 2 or 3 days to notice the increase in strength from my experience. It also makes your plants more resistant to bugs!! Just dont use silica towards end of flowering. As for the scrog side of things, i put big plants straight under scrog when i flip and train for the next 10 days. No problems doing it that way!!

how often do you run your silica? im using rhino skin/silica for the first time but i still got a plant folded over. the stalks are pretty massive compared to what i dealt with in my past grows but i feel like im not using it as much as i should. through my entire grow which probably been about 3 months now ( since jan) i used it about 6-7 times only. didn't want to over dose it so i was a little more careful. the plant is pretty leggy in general but i mean still i figured even the silica should of helped it. branches didn't snap but yea they touch the floor if i don't support them.

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

Lethidox said:
how often do you run your silica? im using rhino skin/silica for the first time but i still got a plant folded over. the stalks are pretty massive compared to what i dealt with in my past grows but i feel like im not using it as much as i should. through my entire grow which probably been about 3 months now ( since jan) i used it about 6-7 times only. didn't want to over dose it so i was a little more careful. the plant is pretty leggy in general but i mean still i figured even the silica should of helped it. branches didn't snap but yea they touch the floor if i don't support them.

I dont use silica that often to be honest. Only if the plant looks like it needs it. I usually only use it once around the start of flower to firm the branches. If your branches are weak and bend/fold easy then i would use it as weak branches dont yield too well. If you are using rhino skin and branches arent hardening then you may have other issues? Like white fly?

Hydro4life · Apr 2, 2019

callies said:
i dont exactly get how to use other additive correctly apart from cal mag. when using additives do you need to reduce the amount of base nutrients to compensate for the extra ppm that the additives have. and do you mix up your rez with all base and additives then just top up your rez with base the the week until you change it out

I dont know if this is a text book answer but i personally prefer to minimise my additives rather than my base nutes. I do drop my base nute strength slightly depending on what additives im using. Also less can be best with additives as to much can cause lockout. And to answer your other question this is also why regular res changes are good as you cannot tell how much of what macro/micro nutrients your plant has uptaken with a ppm meter. By dumping the res and replenishing with fresh nutes you know what is available to your plants. Once i add my additives i dont add much more until the next res change as it just becomes guess work in my opinion. (maybe a quarter strength to be safe depending on how hungry the plant has been) and just top up with water and add base nutes to desired ppm. you will get to the stage where youll be able to read your plants to a degree and they will tell you if they need or have too much of something. Also be aware that some additives barely raise the ppm like big bud, where as overdrive and cal mag will. This is just what i do and im happy with how my plants are. Hope all my effort writing this helps? Haha.

callies · Apr 2, 2019

well i normally dont use my tds meter anymore when mixing my base just because i know the right mix amounts
in the past i have used bud candy when i was growing in coca from the advance nutrients line. i know that never changed the ppm
my past 4 grows i have pulled decent bud in dwc but i always feel like my trichomes are lacking. additives and dwc kind of confuse me because adding 4 or so things to my base nutrients @ the ratios suggested would give me something crazy high in the ppm readings but again if most dont change the ppm well i guess its not a problem.
i change my rez weekly mainly because i dont run a big rez 10L or like 2.5gallons over the week ill top up about 80%
i just changed to a 30L or 8gallon rez id expect that to be needed to be changed every 10 ish days
i still feel like its allot of wasted nutrients dumping the rez so often but i never get root rot and most the time the plants happy so i keep changing it weekly
i will probably try a PK booster this time in flower or some sort of sweetener i might just stick with cal mag and not try silica considering i cant use both together and try not manipulate my plant so much

Lethidox · Apr 2, 2019

Hydro4life said:
I dont use silica that often to be honest. Only if the plant looks like it needs it. I usually only use it once around the start of flower to firm the branches. If your branches are weak and bend/fold easy then i would use it as weak branches dont yield too well. If you are using rhino skin and branches arent hardening then you may have other issues? Like white fly?

i don't see any white flies. i'll try it on my next run again i think that plant was just too leggy possibly not enough light on it's end compared to the other 2. or just a different pheno issue.

Hydro4life · Apr 3, 2019

callies said:
well i normally dont use my tds meter anymore when mixing my base just because i know the right mix amounts
in the past i have used bud candy when i was growing in coca from the advance nutrients line. i know that never changed the ppm
my past 4 grows i have pulled decent bud in dwc but i always feel like my trichomes are lacking. additives and dwc kind of confuse me because adding 4 or so things to my base nutrients @ the ratios suggested would give me something crazy high in the ppm readings but again if most dont change the ppm well i guess its not a problem.
i change my rez weekly mainly because i dont run a big rez 10L or like 2.5gallons over the week ill top up about 80%
i just changed to a 30L or 8gallon rez id expect that to be needed to be changed every 10 ish days
i still feel like its allot of wasted nutrients dumping the rez so often but i never get root rot and most the time the plants happy so i keep changing it weekly
i will probably try a PK booster this time in flower or some sort of sweetener i might just stick with cal mag and not try silica considering i cant use both together and try not manipulate my plant so much

Sounds like youre doing alright callies! You can let your res run longer between changes. As long as your water temp is cool enough and your not getting too much salt build up. A good indication if you need to change your res is when your plant drinks, you top it up with water and the ppm is still high. (Start using your ppm meter again lol) That would indicate your building up salts and your plant isnt uptaking nutes. The main additives i use are bud candy, big bud and overdrive. Sometimes i use pirahna for root beneficials but its very expensive. B52 in veg isnt bad either. Bud candy and big bud used together will help with trichome development and wont really bump up your ppm. And i also use cal mag and silica when needed with no issues.

Hydro4life · Apr 3, 2019

Lethidox said:
i don't see any white flies. i'll try it on my next run again i think that plant was just too leggy possibly not enough light on it's end compared to the other 2. or just a different pheno issue.

Are your branches very stretched between bud sites? Sativa dominant strains will do this more but you may need to get more lights to your plants in veg? Depending on your grow style you could top and lst to open the plant up and expose more light. Increase light intensity slightly as plant gets bigger also. And dont let temps get too high, this will also cause stretching.

plant keeps snapping small branches

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