Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
MikeyPeenz said:
Hey guys, thanks for the responses! I had posted a few days ago in my journal that i had came home from skool one afternoon and noticed my plants were close to the lights, about 2 inches away, i thought immediatly heat burn!
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2" away from what kind of lights? More than likely it is heat burn, a temperature issue which was my first call.

but upon furthur inspection, i have read through the soil i have, and it does contain time release ferts. Im not using mg soil, but some soil made by shultz.
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They use an encapsulated, long term, COMPLETE food that I use commercially called Polyon. Little blue pellets with a few grays and greens, right? It is a top quality food and Schultz is an excellent brand at a fair price. Plants flourish getting slow release food, and you won't get any better results than with this food.

Is it too early to transplant out of this soil into new?
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Upcan into the same soil if need be.

i have to put the ladies in new pots soon,
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Why?

i have delt with high heat issues, almost 90's, and have finally sorted this problem out.
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1. bingo!

2. You are poised to make matters worse. Don't worry about a few scorched leaves, they will have NO impact on your final results. Only upcan if your faves are rootbound and showing signs of less vigor/growth also reflected by the need to water often. They sure don't look like they're ready for larger pots to me. Let them go another 2 or 3 nodes unless you have alot of roots growing out of the drainholes.



Thanks again for the information and clarification, i have had a few conflicting reports and just wanted to be sure.
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Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. :bigjoint: IOW, conflicting reports are par for the course around here. The sooner you understand what makes a plant tick, the sooner you'll be empowered to know what's right and what's wrong and take the correct action for your garden.

Good luck,
UB
 
M

MikeyPeenz

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
2" away from what kind of lights? More than likely it is heat burn, a temperature issue which was my first call.

They use an encapsulated, long term, COMPLETE food that I use commercially called Polyon. Little blue pellets with a few grays and greens, right? It is a top quality food and Schultz is an excellent brand at a fair price. Plants flourish getting slow release food, and you won't get any better results than with this food.

Upcan into the same soil if need be.

Why?

1. bingo!

2. You are poised to make matters worse. Don't worry about a few scorched leaves, they will have NO impact on your final results. Only upcan if your faves are rootbound and showing signs of less vigor/growth also reflected by the need to water often. They sure don't look like they're ready for larger pots to me. Let them go another 2 or 3 nodes unless you have alot of roots growing out of the drainholes.



Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. :bigjoint: IOW, conflicting reports are par for the course around here. The sooner you understand what makes a plant tick, the sooner you'll be empowered to know what's right and what's wrong and take the correct action for your garden.

Good luck,
UB
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Uncle ben, thanks again for the response, you probably dont need the rep but you will be getting some!
You say this leaf scorching wont effect my final results? over the days it seems to be getting worse, and im beginning to see it on the other girls as well, just on the original leaves, the new sprouts are coming up almost daily and look healthy (my opinion)
I will let them go longer before i re pot them into bigger pots. I also was looking at lst when the time comes and a topping method to overall increase my yeild in my small grow cab, im using cfls by the way, about 3 right now.

Would mixing some shultz soil with some organic give the girls a lil break on the time release ferts? Due to the small restrictions in my grow cab ive been running the lights 24/7 trying to build strong roots, and i check on them around the same time daily, only to find out the soil is very dry and light compared to after i water. Im worried that due to watering every day this is giving off more and more ferts and would hurt/ make my problem worse.
 

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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
MikeyPeenz said:
Uncle ben, thanks again for the response, you probably dont need the rep but you will be getting some!
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Thanks for the kind thoughts, but homie don't play that game. :D

You say this leaf scorching wont effect my final results?[
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Of course not. Now, if you can keep that leaf till harvest, then you're a better man than 99.9% of growers around here.

Would mixing some shultz soil with some organic give the girls a lil break on the time release ferts?
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No, what makes you think it will?

Due to the small restrictions in my grow cab ive been running the lights 24/7 trying to build strong roots, and i check on them around the same time daily, only to find out the soil is very dry and light compared to after i water. Im worried that due to watering every day this is giving off more and more ferts and would hurt/ make my problem worse.
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The slow release fertilizer is designed not to create salts burn. If you have to water quite often, then indeed it might be time to upcan. Pop one out and look-see. If you don't have root spinout, then put it back in and give it a bit more time. This is only way you will get educated regarding choosing the optimum time to upcan a plant.

Good luck,
UB
 
dakin3d

dakin3d

Well-Known Member
I never thanked you for the last correspondence, so thank you. I've been attempting to read as much literature as possible on plant nutrition, revisiting some gen bio, as well as some botany.

I wanted to ask you one question regarding CO2. You previously stated that it was 'Waste of time'. Would you kindly elaborate on what you mean by this? Waste of time for someone who is in my situation? OR Waste of time, period. If so, could you explain why?

Also, do you personally only use the time release soil for nutrient supplementation? Do you use something else in addition?

As always, I appreciate your insight.
 
the church man

the church man

Well-Known Member
hey uncle ben.

i like your style. you fly low on the radar and above all the bullshit. i'm not going to give you +rep, but i will let you know that you have steered me in the right direction and i have much respect for you.

i was not going to post. i already did what i did and there's no going back.

ok so here's the scenario, the "incident" happened three days ago

i topped a couple weeks ago using your wonderful method. i made only one snip but not one cut. i realized that i had cut off where my fourth top would have come in. No biggie, i can deal with three (as opposed to one :-P).

a couple days ago i was planning on slightly tying down (i'm more just suggesting that the plant grow here as opposed to there) in my space. upon executing said plan i got a bit overzealous and snapped a top:wall::wall:

Instantly, and i mean this response was less than thirty seconds, the leaf pair above the break wilted, twisted and sat limp. Fortunately, the break was not complete and i have "set" it very gently with tape and toothpicks (can you tell i'm gonna be a doctor?). i had no idea what to do but knew i had to act quick. what i did seems to have worked. what i mean by this is that the tissue above the break still looks good and green, aside from the one node directly above the break.

i know your opinion of folliage cutting and before this incident have never cut anything off my plant (except for the top(and the extra)). But seriously, this leaf pair looked pathetic. i didn't touch them at all and they shriveled and dried out. so today i took the razor and sliced them off.

i should have just waited for them to fall off huh? i remember you mentioning carbon indicators and energy stores within the leaf. i didn't want to cut them but they were completely dry and i felt that they were useless.

one last, interesting note. although the tissue above the "fuck up" looks like its not dying, the nodes below it are acting like i topped it even though the top is still on. its acting like the auxins were redistributed, but the top is on and auxins come from the top. or maybe the top really did get severed and isn't functioning for the plant anymore and will die soon...

i'd love to hear what you think is going on... i'm really not too worried because everything has looked basically pretty good the whole grow


Edit: hahahaha uncle ben. My stoned ass just realized that i probably should have posted this in your thread on topping. But i hope it doesn't matter much because it seems that this thread has turned into a general help forum!
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
dakin3d said:
I never thanked you for the last correspondence, so thank you. I've been attempting to read as much literature as possible on plant nutrition, revisiting some gen bio, as well as some botany.
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You're welcome, and regarding the CO2, I think you need to do the basics before jumping off into CO2. That's more money, you should meter it and those meters aren't cheap, etc. CO2 if fine, if you don't ignore the caveats. Fresh air and good air movement will go a long way towards raising good plants.

Also, do you personally only use the time release soil for nutrient supplementation? Do you use something else in addition?

As always, I appreciate your insight.
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Let's get into my philosophy and some basics, plants do better with a little over a long period of time than a big hit. That not only goes for food but light. Moderate light over a longer period of time is much better regarding photosynthesis and plant health/vigor than high light for short period of time. Outdoors, morning sun is better than late afternoon.

I combine organic and synthetic plant foods to get to where I want to go. The organics (blood/bone meal), compost, peat provide slow release salts, the stuff in a box provides a convenient tweek. Speaking of tweeks, I put together a draft of my tweeks and then stopped after I found out that the thread starter is locked out of editing his starting post after a few days. If I can't add and revise, I'll not get too enthused. However, I'll soon post what I started.

the church man said:
hey uncle ben.

i like your style. you fly low on the radar and above all the bullshit. i'm not going to give you +rep, but i will let you know that you have steered me in the right direction and i have much respect for you.
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Thanks man! I appreciate the thoughts and welcome to the thread.

i was not going to post. i already did what i did and there's no going back.

ok so here's the scenario, the "incident" happened three days ago

i topped a couple weeks ago using your wonderful method. i made only one snip but not one cut. i realized that i had cut off where my fourth top would have come in. No biggie, i can deal with three (as opposed to one :-P).

a couple days ago i was planning on slightly tying down (i'm more just suggesting that the plant grow here as opposed to there) in my space. upon executing said plan i got a bit overzealous and snapped a top:wall::wall:

Instantly, and i mean this response was less than thirty seconds, the leaf pair above the break wilted, twisted and sat limp. Fortunately, the break was not complete and i have "set" it very gently with tape and toothpicks (can you tell i'm gonna be a doctor?). i had no idea what to do but knew i had to act quick. what i did seems to have worked. what i mean by this is that the tissue above the break still looks good and green, aside from the one node directly above the break.
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A clean break is not repairable. You're lucky to be able to put a splint on it.

i should have just waited for them to fall off huh? i remember you mentioning carbon indicators and energy stores within the leaf. i didn't want to cut them but they were completely dry and i felt that they were useless.
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If they're not functional then do what you have to do. I wouldn't sweat it.

one last, interesting note. although the tissue above the "fuck up" looks like its not dying, the nodes below it are acting like i topped it even though the top is still on. its acting like the auxins were redistributed, but the top is on and auxins come from the top. or maybe the top really did get severed and isn't functioning for the plant anymore and will die soon...
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I doubt if you'll get the 4 main colas, rules have changed here. Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck,
UB
 
the church man

the church man

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I doubt if you'll get the 4 main colas, rules have changed here. Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck,
UB
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thanks tio! i just wanted to clarify some things....

this plant was topped three weeks ago. it has three nice sized colas on it and multiple smaller ones. a couple days ago i was tying down one of the main colas it snapped a couple nodes down from the top. so, after supporting it, i've noticed explosive growth on the two nodes below the break.

so one of the colas that i got from topping has been "semi topped". i'll take some pics and post them later on.

once again uncle ben, we all appreciate the enormous contributions that you've made here.

what i would give to sit down and converse with you over a bottle of wine, blunts and a good board game:bigjoint:
 
MrBlanco

MrBlanco

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Go ahead. Sounds like you're gonna jump off into other techniques before understanding the cultural problem.
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Dude, if you don't want to help me just say so and I won't bother you again. No need to be condescending.

I'll try this again. Why is a sickly 12" tall plant too big for a five gallon bucket? What can I do to save this plant?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
MrBlanco said:
Dude, if you don't want to help me just say so and I won't bother you again. No need to be condescending.

I'll try this again. Why is a sickly 12" tall plant too big for a five gallon bucket? What can I do to save this plant?
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That wasn't meant to be condescending. It is a fact that folks jump into something else before perfecting their program. I don't know how many noobs I've seen who have screwed up a soil grow, try to blame it on the soil and then do the "dro" thing only to fail again.

Without knowing your day to day activities I can't advise you on what to do to save that plant. I'm not a mind reader.

A 5 gallon pot will support an 8' tall plant. If I had to guess, you've got a really piss poor root system. Have you inspected it?

UB
 
MrBlanco

MrBlanco

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
That wasn't meant to be condescending. It is a fact that folks jump into something else before perfecting their program. I don't know how many noobs I've seen who have screwed up a soil grow, try to blame it on the soil and then do the "dro" thing only to fail again.

Without knowing your day to day activities I can't advise you on what to do to save that plant. I'm not a mind reader.

A 5 gallon pot will support an 8' tall plant. If I had to guess, you've got a really piss poor root system. Have you inspected it?

UB
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I linked you to both of my topics (you likely forgot my question from last week, that plant is one of the two that's doing well) so you would know what I'm doing. Anything else, feel free to ask.

The last topic I linked you to is titled "How to check roots, 5g bucket". I'd like to check the roots, but I don't know how other than to just dig the thing up. I can't get an answer other than "don't do that" or "understand the cultural problem" (which might make sense to someone with experience but it means jack to a newbie, by the way). That's why I want to go to hydro before perfecting this medium. My goal is saving this plant. If you can help, great. If not, just tell me so I can stop bothering you and wasting my time typing. If you can't tell, I'm getting a little frustrated.

I flushed it this morning with straight 75f water.
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
First off, I want to thank you so very much for taking the time to do what you do!

I have read all of this thread and it was one of the best threads I have spent the time to read on this forum!

Your no nonsense, no bull Sht, common sense approach is a breath of fresh air

I also took the time to follow links that you posted, thank you for Jack's Classic info (priceless) link for any that missed it
http://www.jacksclassic.com/index.html

I found a site that I thought qualified as a good botany 101 (place to start for the misguided) and wanted to share it so you could pass it on :bigjoint:
http://www.allotment.org.uk/fertilizer/npk-fertilizer.php

there are several links at the bottom of the page to follow

I subscribed to your new tweaks thread, looking forward to it!

I would personally love to see a future myth buster thread from you, though you busted many of them in this thread :bigjoint:

things like your opinion on
superthrive
mollases
epsom salt
light cycles
flushing
nutes (salts)
etc.
I just think it would be a great thread, or as one poster said a how to do it right book by Uncle Ben

sorry I don't have a problem at the moment (did in the begining) but now thriving and happy, very green and bushy w/ less than 1/2" internodes
(will be sharing "my story" soon in a journal)

Thanks again and keep on growing
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
riddleme said:
First off, I want to thank you so very much for taking the time to do what you do!

I have read all of this thread and it was one of the best threads I have spent the time to read on this forum!

Your no nonsense, no bull Sht, common sense approach is a breath of fresh air
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Thanks, it does try my patience sometimes. When it's all said and done, most folks seem to come back to the basics but there are those that keep on trying to find the holy grail in a bottle or a gimmick.

I also took the time to follow links that you posted, thank you for Jack's Classic info (priceless) link for any that missed it
http://www.jacksclassic.com/index.html
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Thanks, I've been posting that link for many years. Of all the Blossom foods, Jack's has the best IMO. It is well designed regarding the N salts ratio, increased Mg, good iron content, etc.

I found a site that I thought qualified as a good botany 101 (place to start for the misguided) and wanted to share it so you could pass it on :bigjoint:
http://www.allotment.org.uk/fertilizer/npk-fertilizer.php

there are several links at the bottom of the page to follow

I subscribed to your new tweaks thread, looking forward to it!
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Nice link!

I would personally love to see a future myth buster thread from you, though you busted many of them in this thread :bigjoint:

things like your opinion on
superthrive
mollases
epsom salt
light cycles
flushing
nutes (salts)
etc.
I just think it would be a great thread, or as one poster said a how to do it right book by Uncle Ben
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I was going to expound on some of that stuff but not having the flexibility to add and edit here is a deal killer for me. If you have a question about such topics, go to the thread and ask it.

sorry I don't have a problem at the moment (did in the begining) but now thriving and happy, very green and bushy w/ less than 1/2" internodes
(will be sharing "my story" soon in a journal)

Thanks again and keep on growing
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Good luck with your garden!
 
Mountainfarmer

Mountainfarmer

Well-Known Member
Is there a doctor in the house? Like many of the posters here I would first like to say thanks for all of the support you give to growers. Although one person may ask a question, your answers helps the multitudes. Gracious Tio. After a ten year hiatus I decided to pull the equipment out and give it a go. My first observation since dusting off the equipment is how much more complicated things are now. I recently picked up a catalogue from the grow shop and was amazed at the 15 pages of nutrients that were available to a grower. Not to mention the different lamps, ballast,reflectors, controlers, ect, ect,ect...Anyhow I am about a month into things and they have been going fairly well (at least I think so) up until recently. Seems like growth has slowed and there is also signs of either a deficiency, over nuting, or some kind of water stress. Can you please take a look at my pictures and ask me some questions. I can't seem to diagnose the problem. Thanks in advance.
 

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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Mountainfarmer said:
Is there a doctor in the house? Like many of the posters here I would first like to say thanks for all of the support you give to growers. Although one person may ask a question, your answers helps the multitudes. Gracious Tio. After a ten year hiatus I decided to pull the equipment out and give it a go. My first observation since dusting off the equipment is how much more complicated things are now. I recently picked up a catalogue from the grow shop and was amazed at the 15 pages of nutrients that were available to a grower. Not to mention the different lamps, ballast,reflectors, controlers, ect, ect,ect...
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It's all about the money. I don't get caught up in all that nonsense.

Anyhow I am about a month into things and they have been going fairly well (at least I think so) up until recently. Seems like growth has slowed and there is also signs of either a deficiency, over nuting, or some kind of water stress. Can you please take a look at my pictures and ask me some questions. I can't seem to diagnose the problem. Thanks in advance.
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What fertilizer have you been giving them, and puhleeeeese don't give me a product name, give me the analysis, frequency of application, nutrient charge in the soil, etc. :)

Overall they look damn good to me! I do pick up on the beginning of leaf necrosis, the copper colored dots.

Welcome back,
Tio
 
Mountainfarmer

Mountainfarmer

Well-Known Member
Tio, Medium is a soiless mix. peat moss, perlite, lime, and wetting agent. At week three I recanned and mixed in some ocean forrest just to add a bit of juice. I also added some mycorrhizae, a endo/ecto blend. First feeding was done 2 days after repot. I fed with: .25 dose of 6/4/4 and a full dose of fulvic acid per gallon of well water. the 6/4/4 does contain trace elements. At week 4 I decided to go with a full organic fertilizer and fed a .50 dose of 5/2/5. I also added some super plant tonic to help below the soil line. This was applied at full strength. Week 5 was last night and I decided to go back with the 6/4/4 @ full strength and a .50 dose of bat guano, 10/2/1. It looked to me that they were needing Nitrogen so I increased dosage. How about the photo with the extreme downward cupping? This must surely be a sign of bad things to come. Also, for what it's worth I am on a 24/0 lighting schedule.
 
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