Planting Hermie Seeds

CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
Aussieaceae said:
I'm not sure about all this hermaphrodite stuff. I've never had anything good come from keeping them, and i've kept a few.

Sure, if you can bare the seeds, or be vigilant enough to remove all the balls, then fair enough, take it to harvest.

But they're impractical and a huge gamble for future seed. If you have access to other seeds use those instead, you're mad not to.

For what it's worth, feminised seeds didn't come from a hermaphrodite plant, they came from a female. Without chemical manipulation it simply wouldn't happen. True female plants don't possess the right chromosomes to do so, they need a pollen donor, or manipulation. It isn't something that can happen naturally.
Hermaphrodite plants possess both male and female chromosomes, this is what allows them to reproduce on their own.

Before people jump down my throat for disagreeing, look for the term Rhodelization in anything botanical from a reputable source, and not from a cannabis website. It's very hard to find and to be honest, i'm not sure i've ever found it at all. As far as i'm aware, it isn't a botanical term, but a cannabis growing one.
Look at the term dichogamy in botany, hermaphrodite plants can be sequential as well. Meaning those late flower balls are still balls, and the plant still had to possess xy chromosomes to do so. Hermaphrodite plants inflorescence can be complete or partial as well.

Is it really such a stretch to assume all plants that show both sexual organs and can reproduce on their own naturally, aren't hermaphrodite in the first place? The opposite would seem extremely hard to prove.
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Sorry, but I have to disagree on one point, chemical manipulation would do diddly squat without the DNA to make pollen, so in the sense of having that "male" DNA it did come from a hermaphrodite. The female plant has to have that DNA for feminized seeds to exist. There is also the issue that the op is concerned that his new pants will grow balls, however since the original plant required stress to show hermaphroditic traits and pollinate itself, and the new plants are so far growing fully female (if I understand the original post) he shouldn't have anything to worry about without putting a stressor on the plants.
 
Home Grow Hype-Girl

Home Grow Hype-Girl

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
As I understand it your flowering plant was put under photoperiod stress during flowering, and this induced hermaphroditism.
So it was a stress hermie. The seeds you got won't iirc have any greater likelihood to become hermies than the original plant did. They will be genetically identical. It's pretty much the same process as they use to produce feminized seeds, just with a different stressor, photoperiod instead of colloidal silver or sts.
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Normally bred seeds have two pieces of DNA ... from the male plant and from the female plant. Hermie seeds get the same genetic piece from the same makeup. Bad wording there but you get what I mean. For this reason alone, hermie and stress seeds are not the same as seeds made from a male and female plant.

Also, feminized seeds are made by using silver to force a female plant to produce male flowers (with female genes) then they use that pollen on a whole other plant. So DNA is once again, from two sources.
 
CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
Home Grow Hype-Girl said:
Normal, well-bred seeds are a combin


Normally bred seeds have two pieces of DNA ... from the male plant and from the female plant. Hermie seeds get the same genetic piece from the same makeup. Bad wording there but you get what I mean. For this reason alone, hermie and stress seeds are not the same as seeds made from a male and female plant.

Also, feminized seeds are made by using silver to force a female plant to produce male flowers (with female genes) then they use that pollen on a whole other plant. So DNA is once again, from two sources.
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Granted that the plant treated with colloidal silver or sts doesn't (usually, I've heard that they sometimes can but that may be bullshit) produce female flowers, but to produce male flowers and pollen she has to have the DNA to do so. Yes the pollen has female genes but it's still pollen.
And as long as his plants aren't stressed enough to go hermie, the op still probably has nothing to worry about.
Let him grow his plants, and tell us if they suddenly grow balls or nanners.
Side question, for anyone who has used colloidal silver or sts, does the treated plant grow full male flowers or just nanners? If you feel that's highjacking the thread just pm me.
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
Granted that the plant treated with colloidal silver or sts doesn't (usually, I've heard that they sometimes can but that may be bullshit) produce female flowers, but to produce male flowers and pollen she has to have the DNA to do so. Yes the pollen has female genes but it's still pollen.
And as long as his plants aren't stressed enough to go hermie, the op still probably has nothing to worry about.
Let him grow his plants, and tell us if they suddenly grow balls or nanners.
Side question, for anyone who has used colloidal silver or sts, does the treated plant grow full male flowers or just nanners? If you feel that's highjacking the thread just pm me.
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I'm no geneticist and am more than happy to be corrected, but afik the pollen is all female as well. Two pairs of xx chromosomes have to exist, to get 99.9999 whatever% female seed only.
If you had an xx plant but xy pollen, you'll get regular seed. The pollen coming from the plant may be pollen, but it isn't male.

Again i'm happy to be corrected, it's what healthy debate is about, but i think you'll find it mostly stands true.
 
CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
The DNA is the blueprint from which plants create things. The DNA inside the pollen is utterly irrelevant. The DNA which acted as the blueprint to create the pollen itself is what we have to consider. And it had to be in the "female" plant for that plant to make it. It's like building a car in a airplane factory to transport the blueprints for the planes to another factory. The car was built at an airplane factory, and it has blueprints for planes inside it, but it's still a car, and it was built from car blueprints.
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
YES - it hermie because I know I had THREE light instances
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There's no way light cycle will hermie a plant.
The only man made way to do it is to shock the shit out of the plant, like by heat or a toxic soil/environment.
It is 99% genetics, so if you use hermie seeds, you will get a hermie.
It will be smokable, it will just have seeds..
 
CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
There's no way light cycle will hermie a plant.
The only man made way to do it is to shock the shit out of the plant, like by heat or a toxic soil/environment.
It is 99% genetics, so if you use hermie seeds, you will get a hermie.
It will be smokable, it will just have seeds..
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It'll only have seeds if it grows balls or nanners, so if it doesn't there'll be no problem. I've never had to deal with a hermie, but there are a lot of people on here who have had problems with hermie clones from a female mother, where the only problem they could find was a light leak, or like the op, a disrupted light/dark cycle. I'm going to experiment with this. I have some regular seed courtesy of my neighbour's male. I guess I'll subject a female to photoperiod stress and see if she hermies. @hotrodharley said (iirc) that reg seeds are harder to hermie, so it should be a good test if she does.
 
Home Grow Hype-Girl

Home Grow Hype-Girl

Well-Known Member
Aussieaceae said:
I'm no geneticist and am more than happy to be corrected, but afik the pollen is all female as well. Two pairs of xx chromosomes have to exist, to get 99.9999 whatever% female seed only.
If you had an xx plant but xy pollen, you'll get regular seed. The pollen coming from the plant may be pollen, but it isn't male.

Again i'm happy to be corrected, it's what healthy debate is about, but i think you'll find it mostly stands true.
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that's what the silver does (I think). It does something to the hormone so the plant begins to grow male flowers but the pollen is female because she's female. Then they keep doing it over and over again to stabilize.
 
Home Grow Hype-Girl

Home Grow Hype-Girl

Well-Known Member
This is from Maximum Yield:

"Here is how it works: When using colloidal silver formulated and 20 ppm or greater as a foliar spray, drenching the target area of the plant for 10-18 days in a row, the silver ion then inhibits the ethylene production needed by the plant to produce female flowers; In turn forcing the female plant to produce male pollen sacs. Because female plants having zero male chromosomes the pollen produced is female, resulting in 99.99% guaranteed female seeds when using the pollen from the plant that was treated with colloidal silver."
 
CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
The hormone isn't the issue. The DNA is. If the plant doesn't have the DNA t make pollen, it can't make it. Period. The "zero male chromosomes" only applies to what the pollen carries.
This isn't a perfect analogy, but if you grow a habanero pepper plant, and it is pollinated by a bhut jolokia, the seeds inside the pepper will be hybrid, but the pepper that carries them will be a habanero. The DNA in the seeds has no bearing on the pepper, only on the plant that grows from those seeds. Because it doesn't have the DNA of the bhut jolokia in the mother plant.
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
The DNA is the blueprint from which plants create things. The DNA inside the pollen is utterly irrelevant.
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Ok, but that's like suggesting an individual sperm fertilizing an egg is irrelevant, that it's the female's genes that matter only. The theory doesn't work.

Point is, there has to be two sets of xx chromosomes to make female only seed. How else would you be able to give that guarantee?

Hermaphrodite plants possess both xx and xy chromosomes, making it possible for them to reproduce by themselves. They also replicate their own DNA (where else does the dna come from?). Making future plants with the same traits highly likely.

Suggesting all female plants are actually hermaphrodite is a very bold claim, and imvho botany has already scientifically proven otherwise.
 
CanadianJim

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
That's exactly the opposite if what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting the sperm (pollen) is what's relevant. The "father" female has to have the DNA to make sperm (pollen), which is why she has the DNA to produce pollen when stressed without being a full genetic hermie which will grow balls and pistils/calyxes regardless of stress.
I wasn't really arguing that all female plants are actually hermaphrodites, I'm arguing that female cannabis plants have the potential to become hermies under certain circumstances, and that they have to have the DNA to make pollen, as it is obvious that they can. No living organism can make anything without the DNA to do so.
The question is does that "male" DNA make all female cannabis plants hermie to some extent?
Sorry op, I really need to learn to start the direct messages earlier and stop highjacking threads.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
It'll only have seeds if it grows balls or nanners, so if it doesn't there'll be no problem. I've never had to deal with a hermie, but there are a lot of people on here who have had problems with hermie clones from a female mother, where the only problem they could find was a light leak, or like the op, a disrupted light/dark cycle. I'm going to experiment with this. I have some regular seed courtesy of my neighbour's male. I guess I'll subject a female to photoperiod stress and see if she hermies. @hotrodharley said (iirc) that reg seeds are harder to hermie, so it should be a good test if she does.
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“Regular cannabis seeds are known for being less sensitive to hermaphroditism than feminized seeds, although this is not an axiom, we must carefully check our plants for male flowers whatever the type of seed we are growing.”

Pretty good article.

https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/marijuana-hermaphroditism/
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
That's exactly the opposite if what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting the sperm (pollen) is what's relevant. The "father" female has to have the DNA to make sperm (pollen), which is why she has the DNA to produce pollen when stressed without being a full genetic hermie which will grow balls and pistils/calyxes regardless of stress.
I wasn't really arguing that all female plants are actually hermaphrodites, I'm arguing that female cannabis plants have the potential to become hermies under certain circumstances, and that they have to have the DNA to make pollen, as it is obvious that they can. No living organism can make anything without the DNA to do so.
The question is does that "male" DNA make all female cannabis plants hermie to some extent?
Sorry op, I really need to learn to start the direct messages earlier and stop highjacking threads.
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My point is, in a natural setting without hormonal manipulation, ANY plant with only one set of chromosomes, needs a partner to reproduce. Any organism for that matter. Can't happen otherwise.

Science has examined plant chromosomes extensively, cannabis is no exception. Imho the information is there for everyone to see, just a lot of it is ignored.

You're talking about hormonal / genetic manipulation.
Stressing plants might cause hermaphrodite plants to show sooner, than they otherwise would have, but they were hermaphrodite all along. Again without physical manipulation of it's hormones and genes, where does this extra set of chromosomes needed come from?

I've grown plants outdoors that have had every stress in the world and not form a single male organ. Same time some do, so what's the genetic difference here? Is different gender really that much of a stretch?

If you feel we're hijacking this thread, i'm happy to continue through pm. I have no animosity towards anyone in this thread at all. It's just through growing and seeding plants before, the science of it all explains the experiences i've had.

:peace:
 
Home Grow Hype-Girl

Home Grow Hype-Girl

Well-Known Member
CanadianJim said:
The hormone isn't the issue. The DNA is. If the plant doesn't have the DNA t make pollen, it can't make it. Period. The "zero male chromosomes" only applies to what the pollen carries.
This isn't a perfect analogy, but if you grow a habanero pepper plant, and it is pollinated by a bhut jolokia, the seeds inside the pepper will be hybrid, but the pepper that carries them will be a habanero. The DNA in the seeds has no bearing on the pepper, only on the plant that grows from those seeds. Because it doesn't have the DNA of the bhut jolokia in the mother plant.
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Habanero's are not Diocious plants with a male and female plant. This is the difference. The silver changes the hormone so the flower itself happens but the chromosomes are female bc as you say, you can't change that DNA.
 
Neubieauto

Neubieauto

Well-Known Member
Aussieaceae said:
My point is, in a natural setting without hormonal manipulation, ANY plant with only one set of chromosomes, needs a partner to reproduce. Any organism for that matter. Can't happen otherwise.

Science has examined plant chromosomes extensively, cannabis is no exception. Imho the information is there for everyone to see, just a lot of it is ignored.

You're talking about hormonal / genetic manipulation.
Stressing plants might cause hermaphrodite plants to show sooner, than they otherwise would have, but they were hermaphrodite all along. Again without physical manipulation of it's hormones and genes, where does this extra set of chromosomes needed come from?

I've grown plants outdoors that have had every stress in the world and not form a single male organ. Same time some do, so what's the genetic difference here? Is different gender really that much of a stretch?

If you feel we're hijacking this thread, i'm happy to continue through pm. I have no animosity towards anyone in this thread at all. It's just through growing and seeding plants before, the science of it all explains the experiences i've had.

:peace:
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Rodelization. A marijuana plant WILL asexually reproduce to self preserve. Naturally. With no hormonal whatevers or a father. And will create around 99% female seeds. @Budzbuddha already mentioned this in this post.
 
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