Plasma Lighting, New 500 watt systems to be released soon!!!

hyroot said:

yessir that is the hps bulb I am using but a 1000 watt. https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/542308-main-lining-thread.html

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Very cool thread! You learn something here even when you aren't even expecting to learn something! I'll have to give main-lining a go. I hope it works with a more branchy strain

Redoctober said:

I will definitely look up that grow, thanks! I'm curious about that elite agro light. 2 400 watters may seem like overkill, but one time I read an article in Urban Grower magazine I think by a grower calling himself "Bilbo" who literally grew the biggest single bud I've ever seen. It was a single cola that was about the size of a 5 foot Christmas tree. It sounds ridiculous but he said that the way you do something like that is to do just what you said, go overkill with the lights. I think I remember him saying he had 6000 watts on that one plant alone. This is of course totally impractical, but I think he was just doing it as an experiment to see how big of a bud he could grow. I'll try to find the article. Most of us on the other hand, are trying to go in the other direction...using as few watts as possible to produce your target result. I don't know if CMH alone can outproduce HPS watt for watt, but it'd sure be an interesting experiment to do a side by side with equivalent wattage's. And ultimately do that for plasma as well when these new 500W plasmas hit the market.

Btw, I read an article a while back saying that eventually all street lights will eventually be replaced by plasma bulbs when the technology gets cheap enough, because they are so energy efficient and consume far less power to give the same brightness. It would cut a municipalities power bill by a ton.

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The elite agro 315w should beat a 600w hps due to the improved spectral output (the 3100k) match the ceramatek ballast http://www.gel-usa.com/products.html with a quality vertical reflector(I would take a vert setup anyday over horz) and it will probably come even close to a 1000w (horizontally positioned) hps in coverage and par value....was not able to run vert with the old cmh bulbs because it tended to not play nice with my remote mag ballasts........but with this new tech it will work nicely

vert reflectors that I recommend

-http://www.cycloptics.com/ if they EVER release the damn thing to the public

-http://www.growlite.com/ best reflector on the market hands down...........

oh and this is for anyone that questions the benefits of running vertical reflectors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz0n1ROaS2s&context=C4266403ADvjVQa1PpcFP1Ly_IHaKY4kCI_-jF1bukjBAHI2dDeW4= lol not even close............and that's with the glass shield on, philips cmh is open fixture rated so it will increase it's own values by another 10-15% with it removed..........drool

PSUAGRO. said:

The elite agro 315w should beat a 600w hps due to the improved spectral output (the 3100k) match the ceramatek ballast http://www.gel-usa.com/products.html with a quality vertical reflector(I would take a vert setup anyday over horz) and it will probably come even close to a 1000w (horizontally positioned) hps in coverage and par value....was not able to run vert with the old cmh bulbs because it tended to not play nice with my remote mag ballasts........but with this new tech it will work nicely

vert reflectors that I recommend

-http://www.cycloptics.com/ if they EVER release the damn thing to the public

-http://www.growlite.com/ best reflector on the market hands down...........

oh and this is for anyone that questions the benefits of running vertical reflectors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz0n1ROaS2s&context=C4266403ADvjVQa1PpcFP1Ly_IHaKY4kCI_-jF1bukjBAHI2dDeW4= lol not even close............and that's with the glass shield on, philips cmh is open fixture rated so it will increase it's own values by another 10-15% with it removed..........drool

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Very interesting. Maybe I'll try that elite agro as a comparison.

That's so funny that you brought up the Growlite OG reflector; I was just posting about it on another thread. It's supposed to outperform the Luxor according to everything I've read. It seems that everyone who has one has nothing but great things to say about it. The only downside for someone like me is that I don't air cool my bulbs, I just air condition the room (actually I water cool it), so the air cooling part I really don't need. I wish that they would sell just the reflective part without the whole big aluminum housing. I could of course just splurge and buy the thing anyway and just not air cool it.

The cycloptics stuff looks interesting but I can't find it for sale anywhere. I guess like you said, not all of their products are out on the market.

Any opinion on the verizontal reflector? I was thinking of going with this unless the Growlite OG is realllly worth the extra $200 http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow-light-reflectors-4/vertizontal-reflector-498.html

Redoctober said:

Very interesting. Maybe I'll try that elite agro as a comparison.

That's so funny that you brought up the Growlite OG reflector; I was just posting about it on another thread. It's supposed to outperform the Luxor according to everything I've read. It seems that everyone who has one has nothing but great things to say about it. The only downside for someone like me is that I don't air cool my bulbs, I just air condition the room (actually I water cool it), so the air cooling part I really don't need. I wish that they would sell just the reflective part without the whole big aluminum housing. I could of course just splurge and buy the thing anyway and just not air cool it.

The cycloptics stuff looks interesting but I can't find it for sale anywhere. I guess like you said, not all of their products are out on the market.

Any opinion on the verizontal reflector? I was thinking of going with this unless the Growlite OG is realllly worth the extra $200 http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow-light-reflectors-4/vertizontal-reflector-498.html

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ah .......I should have been more specific I meant vertically hung bulb....your link is to a horizontally aligned bulb in a vertical reflector/ no benefit from that...the cycloptics tech package is STILL only sold to labs and AG schools(part of their USDA grant) they have been telling me it will release soon for months!so idk. The luxor is also a great vertical bulb reflector(very heavy)/The og beats it slightly.....but if you have no need for hood cooling go with one of these http://homeharvest.com/lampreflectorssunlightvertical.htm 2nd and 3rd will do/will lose some intensity compared to OG but save $ .........but you can also go just bare bulb/ no reflector if your cooling is good and get the max light output when dropped down in the middle and surrounding it with your plants(need space for this)....keep in mind that these cmh are way safer than normal mh bulbs due to their design(people have grabbed them while lit/put leaves on the bulb= all not recommended)And with that ceramatek ballast's safety features(auto shutoff with ground faults/auto dimming if ambient temps get high/ auto shutoff with bulb malfunction) it's a no brainer IMO....330w total with the ballast putting out par values above a 600w hps "on paper".....hope you buy it and show us what it can do......

That's really awesome that they run that cool where you could touch it while it's on. That's like an induction light or LED. Would really keep room temps down too. I'll definitely need to do a side by side when I get the money. That ballast isn't cheap, I think it's like $320 but I still don't see a website that actually has it for sale. Where do you buy one?

I feel like kind of a dick pulling this from SativaMe's thread that he just started, but have you seen this? http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com/l/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/outdoor-ceramic-white-light/energy-advantage-cdm-allstart/928601172801_na/

Would it have the same PAR value as the elite agro bulb? Both are made by Philips but that doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as spectrum is concerned.

So now I must ask a few questions because I am a bit confused:
Philips makes the bulb, and must use the Ceramatek ballast, so I don't understand what the Cycloptics "All Bright system" is? It says it's the elite agro bulb with some sort of "One Bounce and Out" reflector, and no specified ballast. Do you buy the Cycloptics system, or do you buy the Elite Agro Bulb, the Ceramatek ballast, and a reflector and put it together yourself? Then, what ballast would you use for that 830W CMH?

I wonder if the new generation of CMH bulbs will match the new Luxim plasma bulb performance?

PSUAGRO, any chance you could PM me a link to that pinball wizard CMH thread? I can't seem to find it, unless it's buried somewhere within that enormous 290+ page CMH thread

Yeah philips cmh bulbs are really tough bulbs/ ah those in the link(850w) are the energy advantage bulbs(very good) I use the 330w/205w versions of that, they ONLY run on MH magnetic ballasts but are better than their hps versions due to more lm/w(higher CRI) and less electrical draw with a longer useable life.....I buy mine at the local electrical supply store for $58 for the 315w bulb but you can buy them here if you want http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm great info on these.....and they blow away the hortilux blue for half the price....oh and it's open fixture rated unlike the horti and most mh bulbs/ even GE cmh need to be in closed fixture, robbing you 15% output.

the new 315w agro elite is a different beast.......uses a digital ballast/can be dimmed/ less draw than the older ^^versions but puts out way more red/less yellow and green (which we want)

Cycloptics technology makes advanced vert reflectors and makes a complete package(all bright) with the new philips cmh bulb/ballast/reflector.....not yet for sale for consumers(sucks)

www.gel.usa.....which makes the ceramatek ballast packages, includes the bulb/ballast and lamp adapter(too fit standard mogul bases)....no reflector( can go bare bulb if you want) and no mogulbase/cord to plug into the ballast ( I think, you need to contact them for specifics).....which should be for sale any day now/ ill know more when I get a reply to my email.....

Pinball wizard's cmh grow was not a specific thread(that's why I guessed his strain) but rather he posted pics of it and small info in the huge cmh thread at ic@mg around pg 285-286........

....ha I still have this pic on my phone when my PSU grow buddies called me a liar about an MH version of the philips cmh existing.....I mass texted this to the pricks this is the 205w version that outperformed our horti blue 400w mh(we love new tech/experimenting with it lol).........wow long reply, bored in FLA till the bars fill up.......good luck and hopefully ill get some pussy down here

EDIT: SO I just checked growlightexpress page and they are now listing the new 830w Philips CDM along with the 330w one you are using PSUAGRO (I guess it is the same thing i.e. CDM=CMH). http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/

The spectral graph of the Philps MasterColor HPS Retro White looks a little bit different than the Energy Advantage AllStart. The AllStart looks loke it'd be even better for flowering as it has nice spikes across 640nm-670nm and even extends into far red. I'd love to see this bulb in flower! Are you vegging and flowering with the 330w AllStart? I guess the AllStart is Philips new version of CMH bulbs. They must've improved the MasterColor. The bulbs aren't actually for sale on the growlightexpress site yet, but I see they've just been added recently. You say you get them locally? I need to find an online source to buy one. I'd love to try this new 830w. About the ballast, the growlight site says: "This is Philips new version of the ceramic metal halide lamp and it operates on a 1000 watt Metal Halide (either pulse or probe start)." I've never heard of either of those ballasts.

Double Edit: I don't think the 830w is actually out yet. But I found the 330w AllStart one the you have PSUAGRO here: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/59300/MHS-232595.html

Too bad that the elite agro system isn't out yet. I visited that gel.usa link, but it looked like it was only information about the various ballasts and stuff. I didn't know that they actually were selling them. I figured that maybe they ship to various distributors around the world.

Good luck with the poon hunt! FL has a lot of fly girls

Yeah that 850w is the same as my bulbs and can only run on MAGNETIC MH ballast probe/pulse start meaning 100% of the mag mh ballasts will run this.....but be careful on how long your cord is to the remote ballast/ the shorter the better............the 850w is not out yet correct/ but two 330 will do nicely........I would honestly wait for the new 315w agro elite/ it's that much better IMO and SHOULD be available any day now

No I'm not currently using my cmh's because I'm now relegated to grow in a shitty shoe closet ATM

PSUAGRO. said:

Yeah that 850w is the same as my bulbs and can only run on MAGNETIC MH ballast probe/pulse start meaning 100% of the mag mh ballasts will run this.....but be careful on how long your cord is to the remote ballast/ the shorter the better............the 850w is not out yet correct/ but two 330 will do nicely........I would honestly wait for the new 315w agro elite/ it's that much better IMO and SHOULD be available any day now No I'm not currently using my cmh's because I'm now relegated to grow in a shitty shoe closet ATM

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I gotcha. So all magnetic ballasts are pulse start or probe start. I'd never heard those terms before.

When you say you want as short a cord as possible, do you mean the bit of cord from the wall socket to the ballast, or the bit from the ballast to the reflector/bulb?

I'm in no rush, I could wait for the agro elite. What is that much better about it than the other Philips bulbs? Spectrum, output, efficiency?
Or is it worth waiting for the 500w Gavita plasma? How do you think that would stack up against the CMH's?

yes correct magnetics ballasts are ether pulse or probe(probe is older)..........

short cord from the mogul base(bulb screw in area) to the ballast itself/shorter better and more stable.....the cord from the ballast to the wall plug generally matters little for the length

Yes the new philips agro elite is better in every way(compared to the older magnetic versions) you described......

worth waiting for the new gavita? seeing that the old gavita 300w version runs $1500+ and has a useful life of 30'000 hrs/ less red than cmh/luxim engine replacement is BIG $$/elite cmh is rated 20000-50000hrs,just replace the bulb($100) will go down when bought at a electrical supply house....but the 500w plasma, idk since their isn't much info on it.......you could pm whazzup on icm@g since he works for them

try to find a local electrical supply house, they usually special order anything for the professionals and try out the 205/330w mag versions for around 60 bucks and do a run with it........you wont be disappointed......just make sure you have the codes for them CDM205/U/O/4K EA Allstart (205w) and CDM330/U/O/4K Allstart (330w) and obviously you want the clear bulb versions/NOT frosted......happy shopping

Edit: oh and if you pair those 330/205w bulbs with those quality vert reflectors (OG!!!ha) you will still have one of the best indoor lighting setups around/please do a journal so I can live through you vicariously

Okay, so I will try to get the ballast really close to the reflector. Maybe I'll just hang the ballast right along side it with chains.

So just to sum up, I think this will be my setup to try out the new Philips CDM AllStart 330w in a vertical reflector:

Bulb: Philips CDM AllStart MH bulb
Ballast: Harvest Pro Elite MH 400w ballast
Reflector: Sunlight Supply Four Foot Diameter Vertical Parabolic Reflector
Socket assembly: Sunlight Supply 5KV Universal Mogul Socket Assembly
Lamp Cord: 10 foot Lamp extension Cord 14 gauge

I couldn't find anything shorter than a 10 foot cord for the socket assembly, is that too long? I hope I've got all the proper parts and they all work together. Maybe someone could check my work?

Ah I thought you were using old remote mag ballasts you had lying around/like me, mine are 15yrs old......the new mag ballasts will work fine with the 10ft cord, no problem

your list looks good.........I would change the ballast for a switchable one(hps/mh) couple bucks more http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/harvest-pro%C3%82%C2%AE-elite-400w-switchable-ballast-p-3871.html just in case you may not like the flowering performance(doubt it), but some cmh growers like to put in the HPS bulb for the last couple weeks for more yield/ In the end it gives you more options for future bulb advancements........I'm lazy and like running CMH straight through with it(quality of buds is way better) and I've grown with most techs, this bulb line is the best ATM.....happy shopping and pm me when you start a journal..

Everything else is fine by me

PSUAGRO. said:

Ah I thought you were using old remote mag ballasts you had lying around/like me, mine are 15yrs old......the new mag ballasts will work fine with the 10ft cord, no problem

your list looks good.........I would change the ballast for a switchable one(hps/mh) couple bucks more http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/harvest-pro®-elite-400w-switchable-ballast-p-3871.html just in case you may not like the flowering performance(doubt it), but some cmh growers like to put in the HPS bulb for the last couple weeks for more yield/ In the end it gives you more options for future bulb advancements........I'm lazy and like running CMH straight through with it(quality of buds is way better) and I've grown with most techs, this bulb line is the best ATM.....happy shopping and pm me when you start a journal.. Everything else is fine by me

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That's a good idea, I think the switchable ballast is better. In that case, what would happen if I got a 600w ballast like the GrowOp M Series instead of the 400w, and put a 330w CMH in it? Are you allowed to put a much smaller wattage bulb into a higher wattage ballast, or will it blow the bulb?

Also, if you can in fact run a 330w bulb in a 600w ballast, is it still effectively using using 600w of power, like for your power bill? Or does the power usage conform to the bulb?

If I wanted to go HPS for a few weeks, could I stick a Digilux bulb into the Harvest Pro?, Or is that bulb for digital ballasts only? .......sorry for all the questions, I don't want to blow up my lamps/bulbs/room/self

Thanks for all the guidance PSUAGRO

Damn and i was getting so excitedd about just getting a 300w gavita lep and now theres going to be a 500w... damn technology and its advancements

Got me excited too! I have 7 300Watt LEP Plasmas.

NebulasINblooM said:

Got me excited too! I have 7 300Watt LEP Plasmas.

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what are your impressions of them? Can you please privide some insight into growing with plasma? You are the only person I've seen in quite a while who says they use plasma

Great thread. Got some very useful info from this

I dnt think it will be coming out for like anoher 2 years, ive emailed a couple companys they said 2 minimum.. so dont hold your breath

NebulasINblooM said:

Got me excited too! I have 7 300Watt LEP Plasmas.

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How in your opinion do they compare to HIDs? Yield, quality? cn

The cycloptics All Bright which has the Phillips Elite Agro 315w and Ceramatek Ballast, will be out in December this year.

"All-Bright® fixtures that meet UL and CSA approvals will be available in December 2012."

read bottom of this link : http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/All-Bright%20Upgrade%20Guide.pdf