meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
So you are saying not add it to my soil but to my teas instead? I thought Gypsum was more of a bio degrade than a soluble source.
Please Critique my soil recipe!
- Thread starter meangreengrowinmachine
- Start date
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Ok I’m being subjective here. But gypsum dissolves fast, and it can drive the ionic strength of capillary soil fluid too high, if it’s there 24/7.
Imo teas are a natural for adding gypsum. It dissolves fast and doesn’t upset pH or any other microbe-friendly condition.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
hmmmm ok I will try that, then to start! do you think it is worth anything in veg? I usually just count on my mix for veg and only give teas in flower.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Oh dear. I am not qualified to answer that. Study the Organics forum and find out who the heavies are. One of the finest qualities of this site is that the stars will give you personal attention.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
-Root riot plugs + cloning gel is hard to beat
-Cut just below a node
-Spray the leaves once initially
-18/6 or 20/4 light cycle rather than 24 hours
-72-78F for best results
-Dont blast them with bright light, especially first few days
-Bigger clones tend to take a little longer
-Flowering clones root faster for some reason, you can clone a BUD and it will reveg eventually
-Make sure they get air exchange but maintain high humidity the first few days
-Spray the walls of the cloning box but not the plants
I hope it helps!
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
One thing I noticed about the root riots is they don't really break down. I thought they would decompose fast but I was way off. My living organic soil even has a hard time breaking them down after over a year. It's not just peat moss like I originally thought. So, now I try not to use them.
They work awesome for cloning though.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
That is true, they dont break down in compost bins. One of the Amazon ads claim that they are latex based and will break down in the field, but I treat them as if they were plastic contamination and strip them off the stem after harvest. Same thing regarding cloning gel, its not the organic way. I have had some success cloning without hormone or using aloe vera, but I am always testing a ton of different varieties so for now I am cheating at cloning.
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PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
Clonex is the only cheat I'm using anymore. I tried honey and aloe, but Clonex gave me better results so I just use that. I can do it without, but not as successfully. So I'm 99% organic, lol.
It can dissolve fast, but unlike most salts its solubility is greatest in water just above freezing. So I'd suggest keeping the water as cool as possible for the initial mixing then letting it warm up after it's completely dissolved.
That is dolomite lime.
youraveragehorticulturist
Well-Known Member
I use 1/2 cup or maybe 1 cup/cubic foot of Dolomite Lime for Mag plus some calcium, and about the same amount of gypsum for Calcium plus Sulfur. This is mixed into the soil, I've never heard about gypsum tea before.
Crabshell is like 2-4-1 with a bunch of calcium and less magnesium. It's good in your soil mix, plus good to top dress with during flower.
In your pics, your leaves are yellow all around the outside edges. That can mean they are hungry for Potassium. That's expected, plants use a lot of potassium near the end, and by that time it's been sucked out of your soil for the entire grow. I use 1/2 cup to maybe 1 cup/cubic foot of Greensand in my mix for K. Sometimes I use 1/4 cup of Langbeinite in my mix. Lately I've just been top dressing the langbeinite during mid/late flower to boost K near the end.
For cloning you can spray your mother plants with kelp tea two weeks before you cut clones to increase success rate. I also soak my peat pellets in compost/worm castings tea to get some microbes in there before I stick cuttings in. Sometimes I'll use like 1/4 teaspoon of fish Hydrolysate in the water I use to wet the peat pellets to provide a tiny bit of nutrients, phosphorus in particular, to encourage rooting.
Crabshell is like 2-4-1 with a bunch of calcium and less magnesium. It's good in your soil mix, plus good to top dress with during flower.
In your pics, your leaves are yellow all around the outside edges. That can mean they are hungry for Potassium. That's expected, plants use a lot of potassium near the end, and by that time it's been sucked out of your soil for the entire grow. I use 1/2 cup to maybe 1 cup/cubic foot of Greensand in my mix for K. Sometimes I use 1/4 cup of Langbeinite in my mix. Lately I've just been top dressing the langbeinite during mid/late flower to boost K near the end.
For cloning you can spray your mother plants with kelp tea two weeks before you cut clones to increase success rate. I also soak my peat pellets in compost/worm castings tea to get some microbes in there before I stick cuttings in. Sometimes I'll use like 1/4 teaspoon of fish Hydrolysate in the water I use to wet the peat pellets to provide a tiny bit of nutrients, phosphorus in particular, to encourage rooting.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply!!
Yeah that big thing was vegged far too long in that same container of soil and is on day 61 (probably chopping day) of flower so I'm sure that soil is VERY spent! This new batch I will be running in 5 gallon sips. I have read that green sand does not do much since it takes forever to break down but I will have to pick some up again. Or I might even have some on a shelf somewhere. I have never used langbeinite before I will have to check that out. I will also for sure try out these cloning tips! Thanks again!
youraveragehorticulturist
Well-Known Member
No problem man.
Actually, that Tomato Tone is like 3-4-7 or something, right? A couple table spoons of that during week 5 or 7 would probably be great as a late flower top dress to provide everything and bump K.
Actually, that Tomato Tone is like 3-4-7 or something, right? A couple table spoons of that during week 5 or 7 would probably be great as a late flower top dress to provide everything and bump K.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Maybe i will try that on the 5 gallon sips I have on day 47 of flower!
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Looks good overall. I'd recommend adding more perlite/drainage, unless you're 110% certain your compost is of the highest quality. Mediocre compost will clump up on you upon watering, and cause more problems than it will help.
You can always top dress with compost, but you can't take it out of the soil.
Tempting as it may sound to add as many ingredients as you can, start off simple and slow and adjust as you get more grows under your belt.
Start with the basic soil recipe (Peat/perlite/compost + minerals + kelp/neem/crab meals) and tinker it based on your own personal needs. For instance, my well water is highly calcified and is pretty much liquid dolomite lime. As a result, I removed all calcium inputs (crab meal, oyster shell flour, etc) and problem solved.
Thing with organics, we all have different ingredients readily available and we all have different circumstances. While it's good to have a base to start with, you also want to be mindful of your own personal situation and cater to it accordingly.
Why Basalt is top dog for minerals, high in Sulfur content. I don't even use any other kind of mineral, the 4 cups per sqft is all basalt for me. Foliar feeding with Epsom Salts+ProTekt is also recommended, as it is just Magnesium Sulfate and Magnesium, Sulfur, and Silica play a huge part in terpene development.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Cursory research suggests to me that basalts are very low in sulfur. Link to your info?
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply! I have been using this soils mix for a while with success just always trying to improve and recently with moving to LED cobs I have found more cal mag may be called for. Also I have heard great things about gypsum but not really sure of the concentrations to use it in. I am having my well water tested next month so hopefully I get some good info there ( it comes out of the tap about close to 9 ph and only like 30 PPM) Also the compost i am using is all of my own making from my chickens, goats, rabbits etc. so it is pretty good quality i think.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
Interesting, few links below but regardless I'm very much interested in the information you're referencing as I'd much like to read what you can link me.
The sulfur isotope composition of basaltic rocks - Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology
The sulfur isotope composition of tholeiitic basalts, olivine alkali basalts and alkalirich undersaturated basalts were investigated. A method of preparation was devised (a) for the extraction of the small amounts of sulfur contained in the rock samples (about 100 ppm S), (b) for the separation...
link.springer.com
Sulfur in basaltic magmas
The concentration of S in basaltic magmas at 1 atm pressure is strongly dependent on temperature, the fugacities of oxygen (ƒO2) and sulfur (ƒS2), and…
Just sources I've found in the past few years is all, still very interested in reading your sources as well though!
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) has a higher Sulfur content than Basalt, but also comes with the added Calcium content that can harm more than it helps in soil that already has Calcium inputs in it. If your water is heavily calcified such as my own, or your own particular soil blend is already high in Calcium content then you don't want to add Gypsum into the equation. Coots recipe specifically calls for Oyster Shell Flour as a buffer, and includes Crab/Crustacean Meal which also has high calcium content. Coot's worm castings also have a high calcium content due to him using OSF as grit.
If you're inputs are OSF+Crab/Crustacean Meal, you have plenty Calcium and using Gypsum could end up complicating things if you raise your Calcium levels too high.
The issue isn't so much Calcium toxicity, but the fact that you'll experience Mg lockout well before you experience Ca toxicity.
Calcium by nature will also buffer pH, this is why it is common in pretty much every "liming" agent. Odds are, people using a liming agent of some sort (Dolomite Lime/OSF/etc) are more likely to experience issues using Gypsum as opposed to Basalt.
This is also why I stress knowing your inputs.
The issue isn't that Gypsum isn't a great ingredient, it's knowing what it is putting into your soil and how it reacts with your other inputs into the equation.
meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Hmmm very interesting! So ... with my crab meal/egg shell/lime combo... gypsum might be a bad idea in my case it sounds like? I have never heard of adding basalt... would this be in a rock dust form? Would this maybe be in the glacial rock dust that I am using?Interesting, few links below but regardless I'm very much interested in the information you're referencing as I'd much like to read what you can link me.
The sulfur isotope composition of basaltic rocks - Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology
The sulfur isotope composition of tholeiitic basalts, olivine alkali basalts and alkalirich undersaturated basalts were investigated. A method of preparation was devised (a) for the extraction of the small amounts of sulfur contained in the rock samples (about 100 ppm S), (b) for the separation...
Sulfur in basaltic magmas
The concentration of S in basaltic magmas at 1 atm pressure is strongly dependent on temperature, the fugacities of oxygen (ƒO2) and sulfur (ƒS2), and…www.sciencedirect.com
Just sources I've found in the past few years is all, still very interested in reading your sources as well though!
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) has a higher Sulfur content than Basalt, but also comes with the added Calcium content that can harm more than it helps in soil that already has Calcium inputs in it. If your water is heavily calcified such as my own, or your own particular soil blend is already high in Calcium content then you don't want to add Gypsum into the equation. Coots recipe specifically calls for Oyster Shell Flour as a buffer, and includes Crab/Crustacean Meal which also has high calcium content. Coot's worm castings also have a high calcium content due to him using OSF as grit.
If you're inputs are OSF+Crab/Crustacean Meal, you have plenty Calcium and using Gypsum could end up complicating things if you raise your Calcium levels too high.
The issue isn't so much Calcium toxicity, but the fact that you'll experience Mg lockout well before you experience Ca toxicity.
Calcium by nature will also buffer pH, this is why it is common in pretty much every "liming" agent. Odds are, people using a liming agent of some sort (Dolomite Lime/OSF/etc) are more likely to experience issues using Gypsum as opposed to Basalt.
This is also why I stress knowing your inputs.
The issue isn't that Gypsum isn't a great ingredient, it's knowing what it is putting into your soil and how it reacts with your other inputs into the equation.
kratos015
Well-Known Member
It's a very wonderful and admirable thing to constantly strive for improvement and perfection.
However, therein lies the deception of organics. The closer you get to perfection, the less you actually have to do to it. If you've found what works for you, and it is working well, there will likely be very few things that necessitate change.
I have zero experience with cobs, so I can't comment on the CaMg deficiencies they are experiencing. But, just be cautious of what people on these forums say. The CaMg issue may not have been because they "switched to LEDs" but because "their plants weren't heat stressed" and they attributed that to the LED lights.
The danger with growing, or troubleshooting anything for that matter. You want to make one single change, because if you notice a result you want to be 100% certain you're attributing it to the right thing. My suspicion is that the extra "need" for CaMg isn't actually an "extra need" but more so that their plants aren't stressed from HID's put too close to their plants as opposed to LEDs. But I could very well be wrong.
As I described in the post above, not everyone will have the same soil due to living in different regions, having different resources, and different needs.
IMO, don't look into changing anything until you get those well water results because that information will help you into making any changes if any need to be made at all.