Please help diagnose problem

Mahawka

Active Member
Hi all,

Thanks in advance.
I need some help diagnosing a foliage issue. Any inputs would be much appreciated.

The parts that are affected feels very dry and crisp. Only the first set of true leaves are current affected.

Plant - Amnesia Auto. Grown from seed. 20 days old.
Method - DWC
Water - 6.0 ph, Veg Nutrients 700 ppm (as of day 16) , 450 ppm (as of day 5)
Temp - 20-23 degrees all day
Light - HLG 260 in 4x2 tent. 22 Inches from canopy.

p.s. I have never grown cannabis with such fat foliage before. Is this normal?
 

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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Feed it! She's needing N..

I have seen fatter foliage... Not a worry for you.......I do kinda find it being a form of Amnesia and looking like that as "different" but, it is still meaningless.
Kinda cool really...

Just starting out and doing DWC eh? DWC is nice. That and RDWC are my favorite hydro methods..


Let me ask a cpl of questions..

What Nutrient line do you use?

What pH range do you let it float through?

How often do you dump and refill that res?
 

Mahawka

Active Member
Feed it! She's needing N..

I have seen fatter foliage... Not a worry for you.......I do kinda find it being a form of Amnesia and looking like that as "different" but, it is still meaningless.
Kinda cool really...

Just starting out and doing DWC eh? DWC is nice. That and RDWC are my favorite hydro methods..


Let me ask a cpl of questions..

What Nutrient line do you use?

What pH range do you let it float through?

How often do you dump and refill that res?

Thanks for your reply. That's what i was thinking and that's the reason why i bumped up my Nutrients to 700 PPM. At this stage do you think it's about right? My tap water is about 180 ppm.

What Nutrient line do you use? Its a local brand call quickgrow. They specialise in hydoponics. I use their part 1 and part 2 for veg. I added a photo below.

What pH range do you let it float through? it stays between 5.8 - 6.2. I check it every 3 days.

How often do you dump and refill that res? Only done it once after day 15[/QUOTE]
 

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hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply. That's what i was thinking and that's the reason why i bumped up my Nutrients to 700 PPM. At this stage do you think it's about right? My tap water is about 280 ppm.

What Nutrient line do you use? Its a local brand call quickgrow. They specialise in hydoponics. I use their part 1 and part 2 for veg. I added a photo below.

What pH range do you let it float through? it stays between 5.8 - 6.2. I check it every 3 days.

How often do you dump and refill that res? Only done it once after day 15
[/QUOTE]
Your water is not the best. Get online and check the latest quality report. Suggest cutting it with RO water.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply. That's what i was thinking and that's the reason why i bumped up my Nutrients to 700 PPM. At this stage do you think it's about right? My tap water is about 180 ppm.

What Nutrient line do you use? Its a local brand call quickgrow. They specialise in hydoponics. I use their part 1 and part 2 for veg. I added a photo below.

What pH range do you let it float through? it stays between 5.8 - 6.2. I check it every 3 days.

How often do you dump and refill that res? Only done it once after day 15
[/QUOTE]


OK then! Lets have some fun with what you've got.....Ready?

I actually like the 3 part you have, NPK wise.. Lets play with that a minute...

This is how I would chart the first run I did with those nutes..

Use Part 1 and Part 2 together at the given dose and start that now.... Using only part 1 is for when that plant first hits the pot and till it starts to show as needing N (The light green color - starts at the top and moves down hill).

You need to look at the res level every day... It will start using more, faster. You will need to "top off" the res. from time to time.....Details on this part later.

You will run the first 2 parts into bloom for 2 weeks! Do not add part 3 till the end of the FIRST week of bloom and only 25% of what they say to. At the start of week 3....Go to the full amount of part 3 they say to run...

Let me be very clear here. You are using ALL 3 parts for the next 4-5 weeks. At the end of the 4-5 weeks - you drop the bloom (Part 3) completely and run it out to harvest on parts 1&2! The plant must run at least 2 more weeks without that part 3.

Now lets move on to details on "topping off" and dumping and refilling!

The res is filled with fresh, 100% nutrient solution. As time goes by, the plant uses some, depleting the nutrient left in the solution in the res. The plant also puts in waste compounds that change ppm values and can get bad for the plant.

EASY PEASY and 100% successful way to add back a nutrient solution and to gauge when to refill...

You do your 100% solution res fill... Set your pH to 5.8 and monitor. Adjust as needed. (Your doing this perfectly).

Now as that res starts to get lower. You refill with a 33% solution. Take a gallon of 100% and add 2 gallons of water to that - Bingo, you have a 33% solution..

Refill the res to your top off point with the 33% solution. KEEP TRACK OF HOW MUCH YOU ADD BACK AT EACH TOP OFF!

When the total amount put back in the res. Equals the total amount used to fill it at the start... Dump and refill with fresh 100% solution and repeat the process.

This is an old, old original hydroponics trick to not cause overfeeding or contaminate build up in the res. That could end up burning the plant.....

NOTE:

The way I ask you to feed the plant with those nutrients. Follows a tried and true NPK balance that will work great for what your doing... It would be considered an advanced nutrient use schedule, matched and balanced for general cannabis strain growing.

Some strains might want a lower N, some Higher..... You have to learn to tell what the plant needs are on your own....Good luck.

I can not suggest strongly enough you try this out! This will be a great starting point that will get you past some problems that happen to newer growers all the time... Bloom problems that come from not the best use of P by normal use charting by the nutrient makers...

That nutrient line looks rather interesting really.....The way I say to try it......Should be how they chart it to... Perfect starting point..

Good Luck over all, and ask questions if you have them.
 

Mahawka

Active Member
OK then! Lets have some fun with what you've got.....Ready?

I actually like the 3 part you have, NPK wise.. Lets play with that a minute...

This is how I would chart the first run I did with those nutes..

Use Part 1 and Part 2 together at the given dose and start that now.... Using only part 1 is for when that plant first hits the pot and till it starts to show as needing N (The light green color - starts at the top and moves down hill).

You need to look at the res level every day... It will start using more, faster. You will need to "top off" the res. from time to time.....Details on this part later.

You will run the first 2 parts into bloom for 2 weeks! Do not add part 3 till the end of the FIRST week of bloom and only 25% of what they say to. At the start of week 3....Go to the full amount of part 3 they say to run...

Let me be very clear here. You are using ALL 3 parts for the next 4-5 weeks. At the end of the 4-5 weeks - you drop the bloom (Part 3) completely and run it out to harvest on parts 1&2! The plant must run at least 2 more weeks without that part 3.

Now lets move on to details on "topping off" and dumping and refilling!

The res is filled with fresh, 100% nutrient solution. As time goes by, the plant uses some, depleting the nutrient left in the solution in the res. The plant also puts in waste compounds that change ppm values and can get bad for the plant.

EASY PEASY and 100% successful way to add back a nutrient solution and to gauge when to refill...

You do your 100% solution res fill... Set your pH to 5.8 and monitor. Adjust as needed. (Your doing this perfectly).

Now as that res starts to get lower. You refill with a 33% solution. Take a gallon of 100% and add 2 gallons of water to that - Bingo, you have a 33% solution..

Refill the res to your top off point with the 33% solution. KEEP TRACK OF HOW MUCH YOU ADD BACK AT EACH TOP OFF!

When the total amount put back in the res. Equals the total amount used to fill it at the start... Dump and refill with fresh 100% solution and repeat the process.

This is an old, old original hydroponics trick to not cause overfeeding or contaminate build up in the res. That could end up burning the plant.....

NOTE:

The way I ask you to feed the plant with those nutrients. Follows a tried and true NPK balance that will work great for what your doing... It would be considered an advanced nutrient use schedule, matched and balanced for general cannabis strain growing.

Some strains might want a lower N, some Higher..... You have to learn to tell what the plant needs are on your own....Good luck.

I can not suggest strongly enough you try this out! This will be a great starting point that will get you past some problems that happen to newer growers all the time... Bloom problems that come from not the best use of P by normal use charting by the nutrient makers...

That nutrient line looks rather interesting really.....The way I say to try it......Should be how they chart it to... Perfect starting point..

Good Luck over all, and ask questions if you have them.
Thanks for the amazing response Doctor. I will follow your guidance and report back.
I just have a few follow up questions if you don't mind.

1) you mentioned I should use all 3 parts for the next 4-5 weeks at the bloom stage. At what concentration should I be doing this at? Should I follow the bottle guidance of 5ml per L? Would that mean I need 5ml part 1, 5ml part 2 and 5ml part 3 Per litre of water?

2) This question ties in with with the question above. I am curious why you recommend to use all 3 parts instead of the bottle instructions of part 2 & 3 only.

3) Is there a specific target/ max/ min PPM I should watch out for?

4) Back to my original thread question. Would you think now I have increase my nurturant level the foliage should no longer have the problems?

Thanks a bunch
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the amazing response Doctor. I will follow your guidance and report back.
I just have a few follow up questions if you don't mind.

1) you mentioned I should use all 3 parts for the next 4-5 weeks at the bloom stage. At what concentration should I be doing this at? Should I follow the bottle guidance of 5ml per L? Would that mean I need 5ml part 1, 5ml part 2 and 5ml part 3 Per litre of water?

2) This question ties in with with the question above. I am curious why you recommend to use all 3 parts instead of the bottle instructions of part 2 & 3 only.

3) Is there a specific target/ max/ min PPM I should watch out for?

4) Back to my original thread question. Would you think now I have increase my nurturant level the foliage should no longer have the problems?

Thanks a bunch
1: At the ratio the maker says to use it...

Here, I'll make a feed chart for it.

BLOOM

week 1 - 5 ml GROW and MIX
week 2 - 5 ml GROW and MIX adding 1.25 ml (1/4 tsp) BLOOM
week 3 - 5 ml of each
week 4 - 5 ml of each
week 5 - 5 ml of each
week 6 - 5 ml of each
week 7 - 5 ml of each
week 8 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX - drop the bloom
week 9 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX

Weeks 10 and till harvest....Reduce to 2.5 ml of GROW and MIX

2: This is a more aggressive and focused feeding schedule that will work well for cannabis. It will get the plant closer to it's potentials. NPK wise, it's pretty damn close to what I run with synthetic's.

3: You got me there dude... I never liked watching ppm's when I ran hydro styles... I simply did all my calculations by volume concentrations and percentage. This formula I suggest, is done that way.

4: Yes by increasing your feed concentrations. You should get a nice lush green plant and she should be just fine.

NOTES:

I did chart for photo period plants..

Um, to convert to auto's? Oh boy... Best I can suggest is to learn the time average that the strain takes to start blooming.....Note when you see the first real bud structure BEGIN to form. Now count back 2 weeks and you have the beginning of bloom in that auto strain....Match your weeks of feeding to that...

BETTER yet! Start the full bloom mix at the time you see buds actually form.... That first little release of pistil's...Being auto's (really forgot that) Just run the full mix for 4 - 5 weeks and cut the bloom nutrient use out. Just the first 2 parts and run it out from there...
 

Mahawka

Active Member
1: At the ratio the maker says to use it...

Here, I'll make a feed chart for it.

BLOOM

week 1 - 5 ml GROW and MIX
week 2 - 5 ml GROW and MIX adding 1.25 ml (1/4 tsp) BLOOM
week 3 - 5 ml of each
week 4 - 5 ml of each
week 5 - 5 ml of each
week 6 - 5 ml of each
week 7 - 5 ml of each
week 8 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX - drop the bloom
week 9 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX

Weeks 10 and till harvest....Reduce to 2.5 ml of GROW and MIX

2: This is a more aggressive and focused feeding schedule that will work well for cannabis. It will get the plant closer to it's potentials. NPK wise, it's pretty damn close to what I run with synthetic's.

3: You got me there dude... I never liked watching ppm's when I ran hydro styles... I simply did all my calculations by volume concentrations and percentage. This formula I suggest, is done that way.

4: Yes by increasing your feed concentrations. You should get a nice lush green plant and she should be just fine.

NOTES:

I did chart for photo period plants..

Um, to convert to auto's? Oh boy... Best I can suggest is to learn the time average that the strain takes to start blooming.....Note when you see the first real bud structure BEGIN to form. Now count back 2 weeks and you have the beginning of bloom in that auto strain....Match your weeks of feeding to that...

BETTER yet! Start the full bloom mix at the time you see buds actually form.... That first little release of pistil's...Being auto's (really forgot that) Just run the full mix for 4 - 5 weeks and cut the bloom nutrient use out. Just the first 2 parts and run it out from there...

Thanks! I really appreciate all your help. It's really really helpful for a noob like me.
The seed bank told me they are ~ 90 days till harvest. I will start your scheduled on day 30.

I will keep you updated with the grow.
 
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Mahawka

Active Member
1: At the ratio the maker says to use it...

Here, I'll make a feed chart for it.

BLOOM

week 1 - 5 ml GROW and MIX
week 2 - 5 ml GROW and MIX adding 1.25 ml (1/4 tsp) BLOOM
week 3 - 5 ml of each
week 4 - 5 ml of each
week 5 - 5 ml of each
week 6 - 5 ml of each
week 7 - 5 ml of each
week 8 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX - drop the bloom
week 9 - 5 ml of GROW and MIX

Weeks 10 and till harvest....Reduce to 2.5 ml of GROW and MIX

2: This is a more aggressive and focused feeding schedule that will work well for cannabis. It will get the plant closer to it's potentials. NPK wise, it's pretty damn close to what I run with synthetic's.

3: You got me there dude... I never liked watching ppm's when I ran hydro styles... I simply did all my calculations by volume concentrations and percentage. This formula I suggest, is done that way.

4: Yes by increasing your feed concentrations. You should get a nice lush green plant and she should be just fine.

NOTES:

I did chart for photo period plants..

Um, to convert to auto's? Oh boy... Best I can suggest is to learn the time average that the strain takes to start blooming.....Note when you see the first real bud structure BEGIN to form. Now count back 2 weeks and you have the beginning of bloom in that auto strain....Match your weeks of feeding to that...

BETTER yet! Start the full bloom mix at the time you see buds actually form.... That first little release of pistil's...Being auto's (really forgot that) Just run the full mix for 4 - 5 weeks and cut the bloom nutrient use out. Just the first 2 parts and run it out from there...
Hi Dr,

I just finished week 4 of my autos using a 5ml Part 1 + Part 2. However, I am getting major nitrogen toxicity. I diluted my solution to 2.5ml and 2.5ml. They seem to be responding well to the change.

I am starting to see pistils showing. I am planning on starting your suggested schedule very soon.
With the recent nitrogen toxicity would you recommend for me to reduce the concentration?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Hi Dr,

I just finished week 4 of my autos using a 5ml Part 1 + Part 2. However, I am getting major nitrogen toxicity. I diluted my solution to 2.5ml and 2.5ml. They seem to be responding well to the change.

I am starting to see pistils showing. I am planning on starting your suggested schedule very soon.
With the recent nitrogen toxicity would you recommend for me to reduce the concentration?
Can you post a picture of the plants.... whole plant and semi close up of the new growth....

Describe the N "tox" please.....
 

Mahawka

Active Member
Can you post a picture of the plants.... whole plant and semi close up of the new growth....

Describe the N "tox" please.....
Hi Dr,

I currently have 3 plants.
1x cheese auto, 2x amnesia auto

All three have been given the same solution concentration since the start.
Out of the 3 plants the cheese is doing very well. Therefore, no pictures were taken.
The two below are amnesia autos from the same breeder. (Sorry for the mangled mess. They were recently trained)

From my research I pined down to two possible causes. 1) N toxicity- dark foliage, clawing and yellow tips. 2) Light stress - yellow tips, 3D foliage and taco-ing.

What I have done since. I have raised my HLG 260 from 20 inches to 30 inches. This is on full power in a 4X2 tent.
I have also made a fresh batch of Veg solution that has been diluted from the previous 650 ppm to 450 ppm. In addition I added a 25% strength (1.25ml) bloom solution to the mixture as flowers are starting to show.

PH is tested every 2 days. I am using a Bluelab PH pen. Calibrated recently and treated with care.

Plant 1
She is the healthier of the two. Experiencing lots of clawing. Recently, the tips of the new growth is turning yellow.
Plant 1a.jpg Plant 1b.jpg Plant 1c.jpg


Plant 2
The yellow tips are not as bad as plant 1. However, the clawing is more excessive. The plant is looking very droopy. Plant 2a.jpg Plant 2b.jpg
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
That sir is not any kind of tox and surely not N tox!
First thought is they want more feed and more micro's.

I say it's a pH related thing - high pH and it's locking out P and important minerals.
Some Fe and S with Boron ,,,,, Ok, ok getting a little deep on that...

What are you checking pH with? Do you keep the probe in a liquid (you must) - so it doesn't dry out? Any pH 7 liquid will work for that (If electronic)..
Have you calibrated it lately?

I have a feeling your meter is off....That is a high pH issue going on, for sure. The leaf structure and coloring say so....- Why I asked for a new growth picture....

So, soak the meter in a pH 7 solution. After about an hr - calibrate it.... Now check your pH and keep that probe damp!

Here is a pretty tough pH meter and affordable. I have beat the crap out of mine and it's over 5 years old! Let it set for about a year and it still works after re-dampening the probe.

Most meters are shot if you dry the probe out. New probes can be expensive......I do not like multi meters! They have fragile, expensive probes.....The replacement probes cost more the the whole meter below!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HM-Digital-PH-80-Waterproof-pH-Meter-HydroTester-Hydro-Tester-PH80/370613327207?epid=28009501081&hash=item564a469567:g:IGkAAOSwsYpaSot4:sc:USPSFirstClass!49328!US!-1&frcectupt=true

I have soil (probe) specific industrial pH meters that are stupid expensive for the farm. I have never used them in my soil growing for cannabis.
In real soil....I never bother with pH. Soil, self pH's...

Check the pH daily! At lights on.....Do your 33% rule work at the same time. sometimes it's better to adjust the pH down daily then to let it ride for a cpl or more days!

Auto's are fussy and harder to work with then regular photo plants in my experience.....Of course, I don't run them as a rule. Tried a few to see what they were and then a cpl of test runs for a well known auto breeder....
I'll recommend Mephisto Genetic's for Auto strains of cutting edge quality in that market (Auto's)

Good luck
 
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