Please say poor lighting

AK47 in 4 - 5gal smart pots, coco/perlite, feeding gh flora trio under 600w hps, mid 70° 65%rh, just entering 3rd week of 12/12 and plants are almost 30" and extremely bushy, so much so that they are crowding each other. Problem is that my lowest leaves are all drooping and some have died off. I am using the feeding schedule from growweedeasy and currently using equal parts of the micro, flora, bloom and calmag and feeding every day at 1 gal per pot with 25% runoff. The tops and mids of the plants look great, growth is good and constant so I'm hoping the bottom is droopy because no light is getting in there but don't want to dismiss a problem and let it get away from me. I watered with just ph'd water today and probably every other week to avoid salts build up. Any thoughts???

Could it be possible to be the early stages of N def?
Plants look healthy otherwise.

ricky1lung said:

Could it be possible to be the early stages of N def?
Plants look healthy otherwise.

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What makes you say that? I thought maybe mag deficiency because the schedule I'm using had me cut calmag by 1/2 at flip and one of my books (Marijuana garden saver) says mag deficiency leads to weak stems but this is my first grow so I'm just learning. I did read that plants need good N at start of flower but with the micro, flora and bloom I thought it should be enough at this point and I haven't seen much yellowing.

nomoresnow said:

What makes you say that? I thought maybe mag deficiency because the schedule I'm using had me cut calmag by 1/2 at flip and one of my books (Marijuana garden saver) says mag deficiency leads to weak stems but this is my first grow so I'm just learning. I did read that plants need good N at start of flower but with the micro, flora and bloom I thought it should be enough at this point and I haven't seen much yellowing.

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In this pic, it looks like the lower leaves are yellowing a bit (classic N def). Tops are nice and green but older growth near the bottom is losing its nice green color.
im still learning too, but to me it looks like N def for sure.

It's definitely not over fed, no burnt tips and all around great looking plants.

Maybe they are just too bushy to allow the light to completely penetrate underneath the canopy? I'm a newbie too, so I'm interested to see what the answer is.

v0x said:

Maybe they are just too bushy to allow the light to completely penetrate underneath the canopy? I'm a newbie too, so I'm interested to see what the answer is.

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They are super bushy, I should have trimmed them before flower but live and learn. They are all growing in to each other like 1 giant plant so I hope it's just light deprivation.

I'm not sure that is nitrogen deficiency, the way the color is fading on the bottom leaves from the middle out is not quite right. I think the long curling stems are a good clue, but I can't remember what that means. So I think it is a minor nute issue and not a light issue or N issue. Overall looks pretty good.

Did you have any nutrient issues when they were small?

Bugeye said:

Did you have any nutrient issues when they were small?

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When they were babies I over watered and sprayed insecticidal soap on them and they grew all mutant for a while but then they recovered and ever since have been awesome. I vegged them for about 2 months.

I cant full size your pics for some reason, but if you have any way to check your plants roots then that would be a good start. Im gonna say over-watering OR root-bound.

nomoresnow said:

When they were babies I over watered and sprayed insecticidal soap on them and they grew all mutant for a while but then they recovered and ever since have been awesome. I vegged them for about 2 months.

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It is not uncommon for early issues to carry through a little bit and cause an early demise to the growth affected. I can't say for sure this is your issue, but that is my guess.

SPLFreak808 said:

I cant full size your pics for some reason, but if you have any way to check your plants roots then that would be a good start. Im gonna say over-watering OR root-bound.

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The coco is all solid with roots and a couple of the pots have a lot of roots at the surface. Not much I can do about that now unfortunately.

Was hoping to see some improvement this morning but no such luck. Almost every day I find one or two large bottom leaves that look like this. Edges are brown and crispy, color is pretty pale with yellowing streaks between the veins. The stems are also a little purple sometimes. If I let them go they eventually get spotty, curl up and die. I'm thinking maybe Potassium deficiency, maybe magnesium deficiency but from what I've read neither really fit exactly. I have kept my ph at 5.9 to 5.6 religiously so maybe need to have it a little over 6 sometimes? I don't want to just throw more nutes at it but I don't want to starve them of something either. Everything was very smooth until the flip so I'm inclined to believe it's a deficiency caused by the bud growth.

id concurr on light not hitting the bottom i dont see a n problem... i think they look pretty damn good ...

Whats the ph of your Run off water???

cal/mag is necessary at all stages of growth and IMO its also the most common deficiency. I see no present deficiencies, but if you cut it off from cal/mag this early, it will. You need to avoid feeding daily IMO. The best feed chart is no feed chart unless you've been dialing in the same strain same cut. I personally wait to feed until the plant tells me she's getting an appetite, cuts out some room for errors and tells you exactly when it needs feeding and how much. To each his own. I want to bring up watering now. You should only water when the soil is mostly dry, do the finger in the soil test. If it's damp a couple inches down, leave it alone and water later or the next day. Drooping is a common result of over and underwatering. I highly doubt these babies are root bound in a 4-5 gal pot. I've seen 5 ft plants in 2 gals do just fine. Root obstructions are a different story: A rock, chunk of wood, etc can cause wilting but isnt a common occurrence. Also as said above, the shit you sprayed them with could be the cause. My recommendation is to rethink your feed/water process and just sit back and watch what it does. Looks very healthy so really nothing to worry about from what I see.

These plants look completely healthy. You can see the leaves are dark green, this is certainly not a N def. If some lower leaves are yellowing and falling off it is because the plant is so bushy and the light is not getting to these leaves. The plant is cannibalizing them and that is perfectly natural and healthy. Plants look great, keep doing what you are doing. The only thing I might suggest is to look into some pruning and training techniques because they are so hairy you might have a more lower growth than you want. That all just depends on your growing style though. Plants look perfectly healthy. Don't do anything drastic.

Looking at the pics again. If anything it is probably too much N. The leaves are more just pointing down at the tips than drooping it looks like to me. If they begin to claw more or show tip burns I would feed a little lighter.

Sorry to spam this post, but it also just occurred to me that you are through 2 weeks of flower and I can't really see any bud site development in these pics. Maybe it is just the strain, but this just makes me lean even more towards too much N.

With the fading and edges it does look like potassium. dark green leaves with the fading at the bottom, and curling and branches going all limp it looks like and every which way. To much calcium and nitrogen can lock out potassium. I'm sure someone more experienced will chime in