Zildjian
Well-Known Member
I don't think the scheduling of drugs is a state to state thing it is a federal thing.
Portland Oregon. The Time is Now. Cannabliss. The New Standard is Set!
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hazorazo
New Member
Thanks for the kind words, bro. As much as I appreciate you standing up for me, it is a non issue. We all seem to be fighting the good fight, which is to help patients first and foremost.
I think we all want to see some help out there, especially for low income, high need patients. I am sorry I am so skeptical about it....but I think all of us serve a purpose in this industry....the growers, the patients, the caregivers, the for profit dispensaries and some NPO's that might eventually spring up, and recreational users.
Even if you get your NPO going, how is anyone to know or take advantage of your VERY low prices? How are patients in need going to get what they need when they do not know where to get it? And how do you decide who qualifies, and for what? Once you start answering these questions, it becomes clear how a great idea can be limited by the realities of "fairness." Do not take this as criticism....this is fodder for conversation. I would love to know these answers, because these are questions I have to ask myself with the business plan I have in mind.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
Obtaining a letter of need from the DHS office is simple, if you receive assistance. Patients will bring their letter, along with their card and Oregon I.D. All applications are handled online. At the interview, we ask several questions. Are their children? Can you grow? If you can't grow medicine, can you grow food? What ails you?
As for clients, have you ever seen an advertisement for energy assistance or food stamps? No. People who need help, know where to go. "Those who have less, have us." - My NPO Mission statement. My main obstacle will be politicians who feel my charities are misplaced. I've been told, to my face,"Marijuana isn't a cause, and a charity has no business facilitating drug use."
And a few Hydro shops are going to hate me. 55% of MSRP as an NPO, and giving away custom hydro setups won't fair well. I fully expect the local growers who hear about me to quickly shit talk my weed, practices Etc.
Those who need us will know, and every 1 else will speculate.
My First concern will be immobile patients. One excellent advantage we have is home delivery. Because it is not a transaction, but a true donation, I am legally aloud to transport it to the patients house.
Again, this is an experimental model designed to SHOW THE STATE that charging double+ for medicine is an option, not the only way ever period.
Wouldn't it be a hoot if Oregon legalized dispensaries, but limited the zipper price to 104.20....ROFLMAO
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
When I say, "If you choose to...." I am referring to each of us as a person. I never meant to convey that Haz is not compassionate. I apologize if I came across in that manner.
The only differences I really see between Haz and myself is he is skeptical of human worth, (With good reason), and he sees the current MJ dispensaries as moral. I do not.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
The "Schedule" list is a federal list. I think McPurple was saying that Oregon sees Mj as a Schedule 2. If you are caught by a federal agent, it's schedule I. If you get caught by a state trooper, it's schedule II, in their eyes.
geekmike
Well-Known Member
I like your idea and hope it works, it just doesn't sound feasible at $42 an ounce for everyone unless you are supporting this with a outdoor grow. Are you planning on running this NPO out of your own home? The overhead of an NPO like this will be costly and all I see is the amount of customers you will need to support this on a month to month basis.
Not discouraging you, just putting a little reality out there. Also your status of an NPO might be difficult since you are basically asking to be a business that doesn't pay taxes. So they will ask you for receipts on a yearly basis. So, you may have a hard time claiming receipts from an Amsterdam seed co. lol.
Not discouraging you, just putting a little reality out there. Also your status of an NPO might be difficult since you are basically asking to be a business that doesn't pay taxes. So they will ask you for receipts on a yearly basis. So, you may have a hard time claiming receipts from an Amsterdam seed co. lol.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
AGAIN, this is a model. And this isn't for "Everyone". Before any one will listen to an idea, they want field studies done. I can't claim shit unless it works. The plan is to run off of donations. The monthly fee is for paper work, fuel, security, Etc.
I was never planning to write off much. I wouldn't dare mention the medicine. The most I would get would be the cost of Hydro gear. Again, no profit, other than better equipment. If I can run this at least a year, I will have some evidence that patience with less can be supported from within the program, by small gardens, without "No Greasing" their wallet without so much as a courteous reach around. (Do you think the fuel sitting in your car is worth $4.00 a gallon?) Remember, this is medicine I HAVE TO toss to stay within the guidelines of the program. I think Hazo is one of many folks who would be interested in learning more about having their illegal medicine insured, picked up, stored, and distributed to folks who otherwise can't medicate regularly.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one
All rights JL
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one
All rights JL
geekmike
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, or something like that. Just unlikely you will be a approved as a non profit. Your intent I'd to manufacture and distribute goods and you are asking for a tax brake.
Did you research the requirements to be authorized for a NPO? I have before (not recently though) but it seems to me that your federally illegal NPO might not go over well with the IRS.
Just because you believe you are doing a service for the poor does not entitle you to NPO , that it's all.
Did you research the requirements to be authorized for a NPO? I have before (not recently though) but it seems to me that your federally illegal NPO might not go over well with the IRS.
Just because you believe you are doing a service for the poor does not entitle you to NPO , that it's all.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
Actually, the NPO is R&D in Humanities. The goal is to manufacture, test, and donate hydro systems for private agricultural use. The rest is just as protected as a dispensary would be. But what tax break am I asking for? My liability is $270.00 a month. My big sweep is using my tax id to establish commercial accounts. I think you are picturing something further down the road, which is good. I respect and welcome folks poking at the model. This is after all the scientific method.
As far as manufacturing, no. The product is "Set for waste". Legally, this means any one can take possession, like trash. If goodwill takes your couch, and gives it to a needy home (HA, they sell it), they made nothing, neither did you.
*Edit* Shiza, I forgot, big detail. I will NOT be affiliated with any government entity or other organizations. I will not interact with any other businesses.
hazorazo
New Member
It is funny, but your qualification method is almost EXACTLY what I had envisioned for my low income model. My difference is this...offering very low cost, or even free meds to very serious, low income patients.......and anyone else can pay free market cost (which is kind of a "Robin Hood" model, if you will. The people who have money or want to buy it for recreational purposes will help pay for the low income medicine.
Question for you....would you feel better about a for profit dispensary IF they had a low income program for those in need? That has always been my simple goal.....let the rich help pay for the poor, and have the best top shelf meds for everyone involved.
Overall, I want to do a Non Profit, but I also think that for profit with heart would not be such a bad thing.
I agree with geekmike, it will be a lot easier to run this model you speak of within your home, without a storefront, or commercial space. Obviously you have put some thought into this, unlike most of the people I have seen in the past. This could be a good thing....
As for your comment about food stamps and energy assistance....I think you need to rethink this statement. I can go online, right now, and find information on both of those programs, and how to apply. I was not magically born with this information, nor did a friend read my mind, and tell me where to go for food stamps. My point is not to argue with you about it, just to point out that your example of people "just knowing where to go" does not really apply. Especially when we are talking about government sponsored programs like food stamps. So, given that, how are people going to hear about you, word of mouth? Word of mouth can work well, but you may want to find alternate approaches other than, "people that need help, know where to go."
I think your idea is going to be a good one. I think if you set it up correctly, you may be able to offer the prices you speak of. Like I said, though, all this is talk until people actually see what you are doing, and see the prices you have to offer. If you end up having commercial space, my bet is your price points will go up.
And as for the zips being 104, you would just turn everything back into a complete black market. Dispensaries would shut down, and we would be back at black market days, which is MUCH worse for patients than having a business to walk into when you know nobody in the pot industry. I have a few friends that did not know the right people, and would have been up shit creek for good meds, if it were not for those dispensaries. I can tell you, in those limited instances, those patients were AWFULLY HAPPY to have a dispensary they could walk into and get their meds.
I am just glad you seem to be out for the good of the patients, and that is enough to keep me interested in the conversation.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
"
- I can go online, right now, and find information on both of those programs, and how to apply. I was not magically born with this information, nor did a friend read my mind, and tell me where to go for food stamps."
This is what i meant. You've never seen a commercial for it.
Example. You just got your card. You go to a meeting, where you walk out with a clone, and a bunch of numbers for people who want to sell you meds. But your family doesn't have a lot. I don't mean, "Times are tough, so I'm driving a toyota this year" poor, but,"If I eat ramen for lunch this week, I can buy an eighth." poor.
So you take your clone home. When your friend calls, you tell him the sad news. You have an Rx, worth nothing, because you can't afford any. He tells you some lab helped him get started and showed him how, but he was instructed not to tell you he was growing. Then he laughs and tells you the website is on that stupid key ring you guys were handed by some guy when he overheard you saying, "we can't afford all this shit!" at the garden store. STONER!
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
My point is if you are poor, you are more aware of programs to help the poor. If your rich, you are more aware of other entities by nature. Because they are part of the culture you are immersed in. You googled it. A disabled american will tell you where the nearest office is! 
That's all.
I'm sure there are poor people who have never heard of welfare or social security. But I'm also quite sure that that caliber of human would scare the pish outa me!
There IS a place for recreational users being catered to. I agree that the standard retail business model should be used. It's the medical line that changes everything when you cross it.
I picture going to kaiser, getting a prescription for heart medication, going to the pharmacy, where they explain for $200.00 these will kinda help, for $400.00 these help a lot. For $3000.00 we'll just cure your heart condition with this pill. What'll it be, stranger
Have you been to Maritime?
Your heart is in the right place.
Unfortunately, if you plan on securing the poor yourself, fine. But as soon as you hire someone else to do it for you, chances are you will fail. When faced with fortune and fame, 99% of humans crack, and abuse power to profit.
My concern for a business with a "heart", is where's the line? If business wanes one year, do the retail customers carry the poor, or do the donations stop? Most businesses donate because they HAVE to. Will you RAISE your price as business fades?
NPO restricts this. They need to embezzle to profit. I've worked in the private sector and for NPO's. It's different. A sliding scale on income is more socialistic, so I'm listening...
P.S. Robin Hood didn't advertise either, his competition did this for him
You sound cool. Perhaps our paths will cross someday...
That's all. I'm sure there are poor people who have never heard of welfare or social security. But I'm also quite sure that that caliber of human would scare the pish outa me!
There IS a place for recreational users being catered to. I agree that the standard retail business model should be used. It's the medical line that changes everything when you cross it.
I picture going to kaiser, getting a prescription for heart medication, going to the pharmacy, where they explain for $200.00 these will kinda help, for $400.00 these help a lot. For $3000.00 we'll just cure your heart condition with this pill. What'll it be, stranger
Have you been to Maritime?
Your heart is in the right place.
Unfortunately, if you plan on securing the poor yourself, fine. But as soon as you hire someone else to do it for you, chances are you will fail. When faced with fortune and fame, 99% of humans crack, and abuse power to profit.
My concern for a business with a "heart", is where's the line? If business wanes one year, do the retail customers carry the poor, or do the donations stop? Most businesses donate because they HAVE to. Will you RAISE your price as business fades?
NPO restricts this. They need to embezzle to profit. I've worked in the private sector and for NPO's. It's different. A sliding scale on income is more socialistic, so I'm listening...P.S. Robin Hood didn't advertise either, his competition did this for him
You sound cool. Perhaps our paths will cross someday...
hazorazo
New Member
I agree with Geekmike on the IRS restricting writeoffs for NPO's involved in "illegal activity". Like you said, you do not envision too much in expenses.
I also wanted to point out that I never said you HAD to advertise, just that you had to find SOME way that people would hear about you.....and from your earlier post, you sounded like you were going to be VERY choosy on who qualified, and who would know about the program.
Overall, I think if you have several growers on board to take their illegal amounts off their hands, then awesome. I have never had more than the legal amount on me, since I usually grow less than the amount allowable by law.
I am still very interested in hearing how this all goes, so keep us posted. I am just worried that you will have a line out the door, and then the question becomes, "Who deserves the medicine first?", and that is when things get sticky. Once you qualify them all by DHS info, who gets priority? Also, how do you feel about the low income people who are questionable as to their "pain". Will back pain not qualify the same as a Cancer patient? Will nausea qualify the same as an MS patient? So on and so forth. These are issues I have identified within my own plan to help low income med patients. If I have a limited supply, who gets the meds first? And how do we justify that to the patients that end up on our "lower tier of needs" hierarchy?
I also wanted to point out that I never said you HAD to advertise, just that you had to find SOME way that people would hear about you.....and from your earlier post, you sounded like you were going to be VERY choosy on who qualified, and who would know about the program.
Overall, I think if you have several growers on board to take their illegal amounts off their hands, then awesome. I have never had more than the legal amount on me, since I usually grow less than the amount allowable by law.
I am still very interested in hearing how this all goes, so keep us posted. I am just worried that you will have a line out the door, and then the question becomes, "Who deserves the medicine first?", and that is when things get sticky. Once you qualify them all by DHS info, who gets priority? Also, how do you feel about the low income people who are questionable as to their "pain". Will back pain not qualify the same as a Cancer patient? Will nausea qualify the same as an MS patient? So on and so forth. These are issues I have identified within my own plan to help low income med patients. If I have a limited supply, who gets the meds first? And how do we justify that to the patients that end up on our "lower tier of needs" hierarchy?
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
Excellent points. Most are sitting on a yellow pad in my own writing from a couple weeks ago!
This is a concern which, if my model succeeds, would need to be addressed. I'm leaning towards immobile folks, because the shear logistics of loading into the van, finding close parking *cough*, unloading, purchasing, loading, Etc. is discouraging to a lot of folks. But you're right. What do I tell the vet with crutches? 
hazorazo
New Member
I like your thinking, and I agree, what do you do about the vet with crutches? But these are things, with growth and progress, you can slowly tackle. Let us at RIU know how we can help in the future. Sounds like you are on the right track.....just try not to hate on the dispensaries so much....haha. Hope all is well!Excellent points. Most are sitting on a yellow pad in my own writing from a couple weeks ago!
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
I promise to only hate the greedy ones.
At least there is a cannabis cafe on 82nd that does NOT sell medicine, but is just a hang out. (The speak easy is upstairs, complete with color coded super secret cards) This is cool. A safe place to medicate away from home is sometimes a small miracle in and of itself.
hazorazo
New Member
I was just thinking that an RIU get together at the Cannabis Cafe would be a great time! I would love to shoot the shit, and get to know some RIU'ers in person. I would be glad to meet down there, have a coke and a smile....haha. I am going to put a thread up right now, in fact.I promise to only hate the greedy ones.
mcpurple
Well-Known Member
http://stash.norml.org/oregon-reschedules-cannabis-as-a-schedule-ii-drug
i think MJ in Oregon is schedule 2.
check the link
i think MJ in Oregon is schedule 2.
check the link