Pot size, soil, from germ on up?

dirt clean

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
I had assumed that I should start in 16 ounce cups and transplant say to 3 gallon then up to 5 gallon to complete grow.

Then I read subcools canopy management thread.

In their he says start at 1 gallon pots then transeferwhen you see the first roots poking through.

From their go to x size.

Is this better?

Somewhere else I read that you should start small so the roots get stronger then work up gradually letting the roots get used to each pot.

which way should I go? I got some good grows starting up and some experiments going both methids right now.

By the way growbags are tricky, lol. Dont pick up I can tell you that,:eyesmoke:
 
AquafinaOrbit

AquafinaOrbit

Well-Known Member
Why not start in the 5 gallon buckets and save your plants both the shock of the transplant but also the shock of new soil/nutes?
 
herbose

herbose

Well-Known Member
AquafinaOrbit said:
Why not start in the 5 gallon buckets and save your plants both the shock of the transplant but also the shock of new soil/nutes?
Click to expand...
I agree entirely. Every time you transplant you break the super tiny hairs that do all the absorption. Even if it looks fine there is some damage.
 
NewGrow60sToker

NewGrow60sToker

Well-Known Member
Somewhere else I read that you should start small so the roots get stronger then work up gradually letting the roots get used to each pot.

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The above seems familiar to me as well but, good question. Although either way, I'm starting mine in a paper towel and when "germed", transplanting the seedlings into the 5" peat pots I bought.
When it's time to transplant, I'll move some outdoors and transplant the rest (5-6 plants) into a 2-3 gal containers for an indoor thing.

For initial soil, I bought the following and will make my own out of: Organic potting mix (no nutes), worm castings, bat guano, fresh (almost still steaming) cow shit, and vermiculite.

My frost date is 5-15 so I have a few more days/weeks of planning before germ.
 
NewGrow60sToker

NewGrow60sToker

Well-Known Member
By the way growbags are tricky, lol. Dont pick up I can tell you that,:eyesmoke:

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hahahaha.............I believe that.
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
I've seen the "start small" philosophy, too, and worried that I did something wrong by starting directly in my 2-gallon pots, which they're still in 8 weeks later. I did transplant a couple to different soils, though, to experiment with correcting a nitrogen burn problem.But, after veiwing many many threads and comparing photos, health, plant heights at given ages and on and on, I can see no difference whatsoever in the health, size and growth rates of my plants versus others who started small, and transplanted up. I will admit it was a little more challenging early on to maintain the right moisture level when they were little seedlings, and I know some people start small 'cuz moisture control is easier.Choice is yours really... MJ is a really vigorous plant for the most part, and survives transplants no problem. I can also tell you it grows big and fast, too, when just put in a big container right from the start.
 
G

GreenFire

Active Member
Kriegs said:
I've seen the "start small" philosophy, too, and worried that I did something wrong by starting directly in my 2-gallon pots, which they're still in 8 weeks later. I did transplant a couple to different soils, though, to experiment with correcting a nitrogen burn problem.But, after veiwing many many threads and comparing photos, health, plant heights at given ages and on and on, I can see no difference whatsoever in the health, size and growth rates of my plants versus others who started small, and transplanted up. I will admit it was a little more challenging early on to maintain the right moisture level when they were little seedlings, and I know some people start small 'cuz moisture control is easier.Choice is yours really... MJ is a really vigorous plant for the most part, and survives transplants no problem. I can also tell you it grows big and fast, too, when just put in a big container right from the start.
Click to expand...

With proper feeding you can get massive results from 3 or even two gallon containers.....I say 16 oz cups to 2 or 3 gallon pots, and that's it.

5 gallon indoors... is a complete waist of space imo.
 
dirt clean

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
IDK about that, the 5 gallon is too big.

I come from 5 in rw. I thought I would be able to get huge plants by lsting and taking good care. All I got was an ounce a plant. :(

I saw some plants in 18 gallon rubbermaides. 1 a rubbermaid. WOW! that is all I can say. they were huge. 10 ounce trees indoor.

Sub cool uses 7 gallon beds. For each plant I think. That would be optimal for me I think.

That thing I read on the small pots to larger ones for root str got me too.

It was if you give it a big pot they will just stretch out a few roots and say ok we got what we need. The plant will be straggly. But if you transplant often then they fill up each container and have an overall bigger root structure.

I am doing lr2 first. I will not transpalnt these. They go stright into 2 gallon bags. THat is what I have read to do.

My white widow I will use 1 gallon then 3 gallon then 5 gallon. That should let the plants roots get stronger.

also moisture control is a good point. reps to you. I had not thought about that. I have just placed a rr in the middle of a 1 gallon bag with my ultralight soil and getting that moisute right is a pill already.

And yeah, dont pick up,lol. Water all over again. But I live in an apt. I am legal I just dont know my landlords opinions. SO if he has to come inspect I wanna be able to compact these bag plants together in a bag so I can hide them on the balcony. Small sacrifice for peace of mind.
 
dirt clean

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
however if you noticed no diference "kriegs" then IDK. I will look at the experiment bag see and widow cindy I am also planning on running and the LR2 and see what happens;)
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
GreenFire said:
With proper feeding you can get massive results from 3 or even two gallon containers.....I say 16 oz cups to 2 or 3 gallon pots, and that's it.

5 gallon indoors... is a complete waist of space imo.
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Totally agree... I've seen a lot of bodacious colas in 16oz cups on this site. Next time around, I may scruch down to a smaller container to get more plants under my light, veg earlier, etc. My current plants are in 2-gal and have stopped stretching and are filling out, so I'm pretty sure they're still comfortable in there.
 
AquafinaOrbit

AquafinaOrbit

Well-Known Member
A small pot may create a better root ball but the overall root growth would be about the same. Only thing that really can happen in a smaller pot is as the roots spread out they hit the edge and start to grow more of in a clump then spreading out, which really would not make much of a difference then the roots being spread out besides the fact that you could concentrate the feeding in a smaller area rather then the whole pot. I could see one argueing that a root 5 feet long would take the plant to long to recieve the nutes the root is absorbing compared to one that is 5 inches but once the root is flooded with nutes it should pretty much stay that way and continually flow into the stem. Making me think considering the shock of a transplant there is no real reason to start in a small pot once the seed is germinated. (Air would also be able to penetrate soil easier on a smaller pot but again if the pots bigger though there may be less air per square inch there are more square inches.)

Pot size varies a lot depending on how a plant is feed. Roots only grow to absorb nutes so if the nutes were all within 5 inches of the plant then you could create root growth almost like a hydro grow because the plants would not need to spread their roots to absorb the nutes they are given. Of course there is only so much nutrition a plant can absorb through a root that is X size and no one really knows what that number is as it probably changes per plant. As we see with hydro grows though the number is pretty high. I would try to get atleast a 1 Gallon pot though as it gives the plant room to work with if it does need to continue root growth and spread to the edges to get its nutes.

Anyway just my take on the subjects, don't take as fact.
 
threepete23

threepete23

Well-Known Member
First off. Great post.

Second, I was buying pots today. I went with two gallons. But im stoked because I wanted to really know if transplanting was that stressful to the plant. I wasn't sure on starting straight in the 2 gallon pot or a 16 ounce cup to start and then a single transplant.




AquafinaOrbit said:
A small pot may create a better root ball but the overall root growth would be about the same. Only thing that really can happen in a smaller pot is as the roots spread out they hit the edge and start to grow more of in a clump then spreading out, which really would not make much of a difference then the roots being spread out besides the fact that you could concentrate the feeding in a smaller area rather then the whole pot. I could see one argueing that a root 5 feet long would take the plant to long to recieve the nutes the root is absorbing compared to one that is 5 inches but once the root is flooded with nutes it should pretty much stay that way and continually flow into the stem. Making me think considering the shock of a transplant there is no real reason to start in a small pot once the seed is germinated. (Air would also be able to penetrate soil easier on a smaller pot but again if the pots bigger though there may be less air per square inch there are more square inches.)

Pot size varies a lot depending on how a plant is feed. Roots only grow to absorb nutes so if the nutes were all within 5 inches of the plant then you could create root growth almost like a hydro grow because the plants would not need to spread their roots to absorb the nutes they are given. Of course there is only so much nutrition a plant can absorb through a root that is X size and no one really knows what that number is as it probably changes per plant. As we see with hydro grows though the number is pretty high. I would try to get atleast a 1 Gallon pot though as it gives the plant room to work with if it does need to continue root growth and spread to the edges to get its nutes.

Anyway just my take on the subjects, don't take as fact.
Click to expand...

IMHO; I think starting with a 16 ounce cup, and then into one final pot is cool but I don't think it really matters. As previously stated, a small pot would create a "root-ball", which would mean that after that plants has matured in its final pot, it has a bit more rooting structure up at the top to help with the stability. also then once into a larger pot, new roots don't ball up, stretching downwards and whatnot.
......"I could see one argueing that a root 5 feet long would take the plant to long to recieve the nutes the root is absorbing compared to one that is 5 inches"-aquafinaorbit...... That argument would mean you have the best of both worlds.. Possibly?

but like I said, I don't think it REALLY matters.

just my $.02
 
justatoker

justatoker

New Member
I started 2 plants in 16oz cups.. when i transplanted into 5 gall bags 1 of them took it really badly and was stunted for at least 2 weeks. Its VERY hard to keep the soil together whn transplanting from 16oz cups especially if they arent root bound yet..IMHO its best to go from Jiffy Pellet straight to your final container ( 2-3-5 gallon ) to reduce transplant shock. When you water the big containers, dont water the entire top surface.. JUST water around the plant out about 4-6 inches. The only drawback I can see when going right to a big container is that it takes more water/nutes than the smaller containers would, but like I said, just water around the stem out to about 4-6 inches and dont worry about watering the outside edges untill you feel the roots have made it that far.
 
threepete23

threepete23

Well-Known Member
yeah i actually picked up a little plastic dome with some jiffy pellets in it. so ill be starting from those straight to my final pot.
 
spiked1

spiked1

Well-Known Member
justatoker said:
I started 2 plants in 16oz cups.. when i transplanted into 5 gall bags 1 of them took it really badly and was stunted for at least 2 weeks. Its VERY hard to keep the soil together whn transplanting from 16oz cups especially if they arent root bound yet..IMHO its best to go from Jiffy Pellet straight to your final container ( 2-3-5 gallon ) to reduce transplant shock. When you water the big containers, dont water the entire top surface.. JUST water around the plant out about 4-6 inches. The only drawback I can see when going right to a big container is that it takes more water/nutes than the smaller containers would, but like I said, just water around the stem out to about 4-6 inches and dont worry about watering the outside edges untill you feel the roots have made it that far.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea, and not long ago I would have totally agreed,
but I have tried various ways and then studied the roots after
harvesting with the last 40 odd plants I've grown.
My conclusion is watering too much, and using nutes stops the roots from growing to their full extent and thus smaller harvests.
Now when I transplant, say a 16OZ cup into a larger container,
I water really well and leave it till the soil is totally dry and then repeat for another week.
This makes the roots grow right through the soil and come 12/12
I have larger harvests as the larger root system can support more buds.
This is my experience anyway.:joint:
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Another gardener's rule of thumb that applies to most plants and, in my couple of experiences in transplanting MJ, applies here too: the root depth and width is approximately equal to the height and width of the plant, until it reaches some limiting factor like the bottom of a pot, a rock layer, etc., especially when plants are first starting out. So, that can help you apply the right amount of water when watering a seedling in a big pot. Pretty much like justatoker said, put another way.
 
dirt clean

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
I will doing this:
-1 gallon pot with a rr puck with the seed in the middle.

- transplant into a 5 gallon grow bag when I can see roots out the bottom.

-i might use a 3 gallon in between but I doubt it.

these first 2 are going to become mothers. My fem lr2s are going straigt to 2 gallon grow bags where they will stay.

Subcool in his canopy management goes from 1 gallon to 7 gallons. I was at the store and saw 7 gallon rubbermaids, 18 gallon rubbermaids. and wow i read about a 30 something rubbermaid grow where the goal is over a pund and a half. another site. lol, one day when I move to a house.
 
RandyRocket

RandyRocket

Well-Known Member
spiked1

spiked1

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure that pic with the colas growing out of small cups was fed
nutes every morning and flushed every night, which is fine if you want your entire life revolving around growing pot.
 
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