Powdery Mildew, Please Help!!!!????
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Pepe le skunk
Well-Known Member
Because this thread is filled with all kinds of awesome here are some things I have realized about PM.
PM wash only helps slow it down. Nukeum kills it for the short term with multiple applications.
Actinovate helps prevent it when used as a preventative with multiple mistings in veg and I'd say soon after clones come out.
Sulfer burner stops it dead after 2 doses.
Another thing to consider is to fungi bomb the room when cleaning out the area where the PM occured.
The Tea tree oil burn, black light(UVA), milk treatment, Baking soda PH spray and sunlight provide hope for stopping PM. It would be interesting to find out if people running UVB lights have any PM on their plants???
If yes please let us know. If no say so, as this might be a big preventative especially in flower.
Here are a few pictures of PM from the first signs to active white spots visable to the eye. Tried to magnify the PM so you can see it up close. Picture #2 and 3 show the white heads of the Fungus really well. It appears as a spot on the leaf but up close you can see the individual spore heads? Growth. Image 6 is the beginning of the infection and is located in close proximity to a wet spot on the leaf. The heads of the fungi are just starting to infect the leaf surface and are spreading. Picture 7 is multiple white heads of PM in the upper left section and appear as a white spot on the leaf but the close up shows they are multiple heads of white PM fungus.
Hope that helps.
Skunk
PM wash only helps slow it down. Nukeum kills it for the short term with multiple applications.
Actinovate helps prevent it when used as a preventative with multiple mistings in veg and I'd say soon after clones come out.
Sulfer burner stops it dead after 2 doses.
Another thing to consider is to fungi bomb the room when cleaning out the area where the PM occured.
The Tea tree oil burn, black light(UVA), milk treatment, Baking soda PH spray and sunlight provide hope for stopping PM. It would be interesting to find out if people running UVB lights have any PM on their plants???
If yes please let us know. If no say so, as this might be a big preventative especially in flower.
Here are a few pictures of PM from the first signs to active white spots visable to the eye. Tried to magnify the PM so you can see it up close. Picture #2 and 3 show the white heads of the Fungus really well. It appears as a spot on the leaf but up close you can see the individual spore heads? Growth. Image 6 is the beginning of the infection and is located in close proximity to a wet spot on the leaf. The heads of the fungi are just starting to infect the leaf surface and are spreading. Picture 7 is multiple white heads of PM in the upper left section and appear as a white spot on the leaf but the close up shows they are multiple heads of white PM fungus.
Hope that helps.
Skunk
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, based on experience.. No, it is not worth the hassle.
Check your humidity, air quality and circulation... but in my experience PM issues are genetic. Some genetics are very prone to it.
My old Romulan plant would get PM in perfect humidity levels. The day I started getting any plants that showed PM out of my garden was the day that I stopped seeing PM. If you keep them around, they will show up on your non PM prone plants. If you just get rid of anything PM prone you won't have to deal with it.
PM is systemic. You can spray it all you want, it's just going to come back.
In my experience. Romulan genetics are prone to Powdery Mildew... I hear C99 is prone. I experienced PM on Apollo11 plants...
If you have conditions that are causing the PM (air quality) and cannot be fixed then I suggest only growing PM resistant strains... like haze. Super Silver Haze (from old Mr Nice stock) is a great plant if you can find a good shorter flowering one. PM won't touch it.
Please let us know how the actinovate works out.. I've been curious. There is also Actino-Iron I saw recently. It's a weaker concentration but has nutrients added.
Obviously, if it pops up late in flower you might wanna finish it up... but I would advise against keeping a pm prone mother... Your problem will just get worse and worse and you will always be fighting it. You can change habits but growing resistant plants is effortless and nearly full proof.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
I know the edge to edge PM you are talking about... but I've never seen it like that on MJ. Always in patches like the pic above. Early on it is so dull it is hard to tell if you have PM or just a little discoloration. As it progresses it gets much worse than the picture above, but never that solid white edge to edge like I've seen on some shrubs.
From what I understand, there are multiple PM pathogens that effect only certain plants. So, I'm thinking the pathogen that causes that white edge to edge PM does not cause PM on MJ... not sure though.
Podosphaera pannosa (roses), Podosphaera tridactyla and clandestinia (many fruit trees), podosphaera leucotricha (apple and pear).... etc.
I'm pretty sure some can be effected by more than one as I've seen two distinct looking PM on some shrubs. The MJ looking stuff AND the white solid edge to edge stuff on some Crepe Myrtles.
I don't think the yellow stippling on the leaves above are related to the PM blotch.
Pepe le skunk
Well-Known Member
I agree with Hank below that it is blotchy all over and the stuff spreads like wildfire. Will get a picture of it on the entire leaf so you can see the blotches of it.
I posted a question in advanced about bringing in fresh air from outside and how important is it compared to just allowing air around the door gap and just opening the door to that room. I can tap into a outside fresh air source but have not done so yet. Would it help get rid of PM and just be better or can the air in a house provide the air to the flower room?
As for genetics being prone to it I agree some plants are not at all resistant to PM or disease for that matter. You are correct that they can show up on none PM strains as well. Dairy Queen seems to be prone but Chemdog doesn't. I will continue with Actinovate on the clones as a preventative and report back but so far so good. Your right about finding strains that are more resistant to issues.
It is exactly as you describe in blotches on many leaves with almost a cotton rub like appearence with left over fibers sticking to the leaf surface. Under the scope you can see the raised heads of fungus. Almost like the fish disease of fungus. Would something with an antibiotic work to kill it? I wonder. You are correct it spreads like wildfire onto other plants from fans blowing down wind. And I agree it is probably a different strain of PM that effects MJ compared to other plants. Plant strain specific. lol
The yellow small spots in photo 6 and 7 do have PM in them as the start and seemed to come from a wet spot on the leaf. Like it was the source. Where leafs touched each other/ layed on top of one another.
Please feel free to comment if you have seen this plague.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of controls for PM. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7406.html
I grow grapes and listed by Texas A&M for PM control are 13 fungicides. Best bet is a systemic, myclobutanil (Rally or Nova) also found in home gardening products at hardware stores or nurseries. Post harvest interval (PHI) for myclobutanil is 14 days. Pristine (pyraclostrobin+boscalid) is THE silver bullet, very broad spectrum, systemic, but very costly. PHI is 14 days. I would hit your faves when they reached about 6 nodes or so or have plenty of foliage for uptake.
And yes, prevention is the key - plenty of fresh air, a good breeze, moderate RH. Another reason why I don't do tents or other enclosed gardens.
Good luck,
UB
I grow grapes and listed by Texas A&M for PM control are 13 fungicides. Best bet is a systemic, myclobutanil (Rally or Nova) also found in home gardening products at hardware stores or nurseries. Post harvest interval (PHI) for myclobutanil is 14 days. Pristine (pyraclostrobin+boscalid) is THE silver bullet, very broad spectrum, systemic, but very costly. PHI is 14 days. I would hit your faves when they reached about 6 nodes or so or have plenty of foliage for uptake.
And yes, prevention is the key - plenty of fresh air, a good breeze, moderate RH. Another reason why I don't do tents or other enclosed gardens.
Good luck,
UB
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Pristine... Good to know. Thanks for sharing that.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen anything that would lead me to say that bringing in direct outside air would help with PM.. but if UB says it does then I would take it as truth.
Fresh outside air though does help a TON with yields/growth. Not just letting it creep in through cracks in the door, but a good amount of passive or active intake from outside to your plants.
I think it is one of the simplest things that many people are over looking indoors. If you can easily bring in outside air while keeping optimal temp and humidity then I would say definitely go for it. Filter the air, obviously. You don't need to do anything to crazy to filter it... I've used a paint strainer fixed over a duct flange connected with a wormhole driver. It did the job. I'm sure a Phresh intake filter would do better though.
I remember the first crop I did it with and it was a huge DUH moment... yields noticeably bumped up.
Another thing along with that, for co2 levels and air circulation... is eliminating micro climates in the grow room. You easily get them in tents, but even in an open room... You can have a corner of your garden that is a 180 from the rest of the room with temp, humidity, co2, circulation.. It's just one of those things to acknowledge/think about. Like UB said about not using tents... a little corner in a tent can be a dead zone, bring in PM then vector to the rest of your plants... In the past, I have used little 4 inch desktop fans, sittin down at the root zone in those trouble corners. Anything you can do to break up that dead zone. Since getting all the pm prone plants out though... i don't even need to fuck with it. I'm sure it would help a tadbit with yields though... oh well.
I haven't used actinovate indoors before. I hope it works out for you. I'm curious.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
I have seen yellow stippling be a number of things. If I remember right I've had something similar from thrips, and I think calcium def? Not sure though..
Anyway, good luck, enjoy, take it easy.
Pepe le skunk
Well-Known Member
The Nuke Um has knocked the PM down but will hit them one more time in 2 days or so. I also added a second fan for air movement. Will be hooking up the fresh air intake. Was just looking at it. Going to remove the plants to a second dark room after this next treatment and fog the room with mildew fungus fogger just to make sure it's gone. (Any one know how long you have to wait after you fog a room to reinterduce plants back? Will 12 hrs do it with 2 hours running exhaust?) Will hit them one last time with Actinovate and that's it as they will be at 4 weeks flower and don't want to hurt them any worse. They are starting to chunk up on these last few days. After misting them and waiting 10 minutes or up to 30 minutes I also blow dry the plants with 3 blower fans to assist with drying for 20 minutes. Like a car wash. lol
This is exactly what I wanted to hear especially about the bigger yeilds and you realizing it.
Will they have the paint strainer and wormhole driver at depot? Will have to look at the intake filter options also and do some research. Want the best option or at least know what it is.
Was also considering an extra fan that moves air around the bottom of the canopy. I'll let you know if the Actonovate keeps the PM away the last few weeks of flower.
I just did a new thread on Thirps because they helped the PM explode in the first place. I had seen these really small white things drift past a while back and had discovered a few adults back in February in the veg area. Treated for bugs in march but only did 3 treatments. Must have only knocked them down. I did find a product that will kill them and learned a bit about them and their life cycle. Ugh other peeps clones suck. Should have relized something was up by the leaves and the little bit of damage I was noticing.
Thank's again for all your help.
Ninjabowler
Well-Known Member
Wow UB that was a great post on indoor geerdening lol. How bout this. Be active on your PM. PM sucks, it spreads from leaf to leaf and if your not 100 % on top of i then it can take over. Pull off all leaves that have white spots and hollow out your plant if neccesary. Air circulation helps alot, plant rotation and air flow. Iff all these are in check spray thm with a baking soda water mixture at a ratio of a teaspoon 5 ml per spay bottle and spray the top sides. Why the hell is this thread still buumpin lol.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
OK, I just scanned this. Get familiar with the conditions favorable to the spread of the disease and deal with that conducive environment. I've always dealt with seeds which are not contaminated.
There is no reason for a PM infection if you're maintaining a clean room and practicing normal gardening techniques. Any hoo......
There is no reason for a PM infection if you're maintaining a clean room and practicing normal gardening techniques. Any hoo......
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HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
"Ohmygod" stage... haha.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Yeah... wormhole driver is prbly not the real name... it is the metal loop that holds ducting to a flange or a fan. It can be found with the ducting and fittings. Paint strainer is a nylon bag, in the paint section.
Another option, while not all that discreet... take a larger AC filter... that is close to fitting a window in the room. Open the window, put it in place, close the window to the point where it holds in place, seal up with foil tape, cover the window with a black sheet (in some setups, this just won't work out.. security wise)... This will give you a nice passive intake. Assuming you have some strong fans you will pull in a good bit of air.
An active intake will show even better results most likely. Whatever your method, you're just going for lots of outdoor air while keeping out as bugs... An intake filter like Phresh makes would do better for spores and dust.
The important thing is to think about the path of that outside air...is it finding its way to the plants? intake air needs to make its way to a circulation fan. With a wide open space, it's easy... say you have multiple tents in a room then you need to get creative.
Alright man, happy to help, good luck. It sounds like you're bound for success.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
aka "ah shit" stage. Those aggies do have a sense of humor.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
There ya go...
kinddiesel
Well-Known Member
if your running 18 , run 24. might dry it up for you, ive never seen mold on veg, hopefully I never doo . but always run 24 lights, separate the plants asap. don't throw out yet. use 1/10 bleach and water. get a fan blow it onto the plants, keep the air moveing. air the room out open all windows . blow fans get fresh air in .
kinddiesel
Well-Known Member
run the fans 24 hours a day . sence you have mildew problems not in veg I suggest running the fan 24 hours during flower . it wont hurt any thing. just keep them dry, wind does blow at night, out side.
im in the desert and have seen it snow overnight a few times at 15-30%rh. what i do to kill the spores now is fill a spray bottle with ro. adjust the ph to 9-10, and then add 200-300ppms protekt. i spray every 5 days lightly but thoroughly after raising the lights a couple feet with a fan gently waiving all the branches to prevent the occasional shiny spot. if i dont increase the ph that high before adding the silicate it doesnt absorb as well and leaves a buildup from my experience. the next day under the microscope the few spots where the pm has tried to attack turns pale and the spores will have a yellow tint. a lot of other sprays have given me budrot when suppressing outbreaks but not silicate. as long as i dont firehose a bunch of pistils together on a nugget they stay nice and white after application.