ppm measurement: total, or adding source water ppms?

dray86man

dray86man

Active Member
What I mean is, my water is about 250 ppm total solids and I have a recommendation to set my nute point at 1000 ppm. Does that mean 1000 ppm TOTAL, or 1000 ppm + 250 ppm = 1250 ppm TOTAL?

thanks for the views
 
Ive had this out with growers before lmao, depends mate... some add some take away. I always take off the base EC of tap water when i used it, when people talk about feeding there plants in PPM it means fuck all to another grower if their adding on the base EC of the water. We all have different PPM in our water and this can change throughout the year depending where the water co draws the water from, so i always take it off the final reading so i know what my real nute strength is and not combined with the tap water. Ive used RO for the last 3 year so its not an issue for me now, also your water is very soft at 250ppm so it isnt gonna make a great deal to your outcome, my tap water is like 0.6 / 0.8 ec which is really hard so this can fuck with your reading if you add it on.
 
IMO 250ppm tap water is too high to give your plants. I give mine 10-15ppm TDS RO water. That is my base for adding nutes.
 
intenseneal said:
IMO 250ppm tap water is too high to give your plants. I give mine 10-15ppm TDS RO water. That is my base for adding nutes.
Click to expand...

From what ive read most growers are using tap water and seem to do just fine with it and with PPM higher than 250. Ive just tested my tap water and its over 420ppm and ive used that in hydro without issues. Theres probably others using higher PPM tap water than me tho. RO is the way to go imo, i wouldnt run tap water in hydro anymore after using RO for the last few years.
 
intenseneal said:
IMO 250ppm tap water is too high to give your plants. I give mine 10-15ppm TDS RO water. That is my base for adding nutes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for helping me answer my question. :wall:

No thanks to stripped water. The trace elements listed in my water analysis won't do any harm, and may provide some micros as well.
 
jimmygreenfingers said:
so i always take it off the final reading so i know what my real nute strength is and not combined with the tap water.
Click to expand...

Sure, this just makes sense to me.

Put a clone in a glass of tap water and you'll get a few roots, but little else. Seems that suggested nute concentration is just that; nute concentration, not considering the base water unless super hard as in your example.

thanks for the advice.
 
FYI, here's my water analysis:


[TD="width: 116"]Analyte[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]Reported as mg/l
(except as noted)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]Typical
Concentration
[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]Range[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Calcium[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]50[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]40-60[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Magnesium[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]40[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]30-40[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Total Hardness*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]90[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]85-100[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Carbonate (CO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE])[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]15-30[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Bicarbonate (HCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE])[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]10-25[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Total alkalinity[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]CaCO[SIZE=-3]3[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]35[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]25-60[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Sodium*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]Na[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]44[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]30-60[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Iron*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]Fe[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]0.1-0.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Sulfate*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]SO[SIZE=-3]4[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]70[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]40-150[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Chloride*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]Cl[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]46[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]10-100[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Silica*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]SiO[SIZE=-3]2[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]9-14[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Fluoride[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]F[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]0.6-1.4[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Phosphate, Tot[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]P[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]0.2-1.0[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Phosphate, Ortho[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]P[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]0.1-0.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Chloramine[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]Cl[SIZE=-3]2[/SIZE] (at plant tap)[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]1.0-3.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]pH[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]pH units[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]9.2-9.8[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Turbidity[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]NTU[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]0.2 NTU[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]0.1-0.5[/TD]

[TD="width: 116"]Conductivity*[/TD]
[TD="width: 144"]uS/cm[/TD]
[TD="width: 80"]350[/TD]
[TD="width: 70"]250-750[/TD]
 
Well lets put it this way. Do you drink tap water? I sure as hell dont tap water is nasty. Now if you dont drink tap water then why would you feed it to your plants then smoke them? The federal legal limit for tap water is about 500ppm. Good water quality is under 50ppm but I cant be sure on that. The federal government has a scale for water quality. The thing is you dont know what that 250ppm or 420ppm is made up of all you know and all a TDS meter test for is anything other than water dissolved in the water. It could be lead, iron, calcium, chlorine, chloramine, fluoride, copper, mercury you just dont really know. Even a local water report like above is not reliable. Water quality can change day to day or season to season. Many cities get there water from several different sources at any given time. Lets say it is spring and the lakes are filling up the city will pull water from the lake, now it is summer and there has been no rain and the water level in the lake is dropping so the city pulls water from a river or a well or an under ground aquifer. Each water source will have a different chemistry. With RO water you are getting clean pure water and it will be consistent year round.
 
I usually go by the total, that is if tap water 250 and I'm lookin for say 500 ppm I'm actually adding only 250 nutes for a total of 500 ppm's. I agree with intenseneal, guess I should start looking more into the water I use, thanks dude.
 
For years people have feed their plants with tap water...

I used the So Cal tap water for a long time, in both outdoor and indoor and just add water organic..... Honestly I never really had any issues and have yet to see a change in yield or strain performance using R.O. water.

Oh wait actually I did have issues when running R.O. and they where generally a phing/ph buffering issue, when running tap water a lot of the better nutes I used would actually be pretty ph stable right out the gate. When running R.O. these would be to low, or 2 high and then very fidgity to ph buffer. :-/

Now I run a 3 stage filter that is not R.O. but still removes the Chlorine and Chloramines in the water. MY ppm varies now from 250ish to almost 400 depending on season, rain/snow fall and etc. Also I no longer have the phing issues that I had with R.O. water... all the bad bad stuff is removed yeah it still retains some of the micros and secondarys that are useful for plant growth.

All this being said.... I take my water ppm first.... add my nutes then substract the water ppm from the second reading so I know exactly how much ppm of my nutes themselves I am adding.
 
intenseneal said:
Well lets put it this way. Do you drink tap water? I sure as hell dont tap water is nasty. Now if you dont drink tap water then why would you feed it to your plants then smoke them? The federal legal limit for tap water is about 500ppm. Good water quality is under 50ppm but I cant be sure on that. The federal government has a scale for water quality. The thing is you dont know what that 250ppm or 420ppm is made up of all you know and all a TDS meter test for is anything other than water dissolved in the water. It could be lead, iron, calcium, chlorine, chloramine, fluoride, copper, mercury you just dont really know. Even a local water report like above is not reliable. Water quality can change day to day or season to season. Many cities get there water from several different sources at any given time. Lets say it is spring and the lakes are filling up the city will pull water from the lake, now it is summer and there has been no rain and the water level in the lake is dropping so the city pulls water from a river or a well or an under ground aquifer. Each water source will have a different chemistry. With RO water you are getting clean pure water and it will be consistent year round.
Click to expand...
Your way off base here, RO water is missing many micro nutrients that ALL organic life require. Tap water and/or rain water is quite acceptable for growing herbs, as for drinking ALL government provided tap water is tested and regulated for human consumption, regardless of taste.

Take your nutrient readings minus your starting ppm's, also if your unsure of what your tap water contains a quick email to your municipality and they will point you to the latest water analysis for your area; if you really want to know what makes up your tap water.

regards,
 
^^ That is why you add nutes into RO water to replace what is being removed that the plant needs. Removing good stuff from the water is a by-product of removing all the bad stuff, this is why I use RO water and not my 0ppm TDS RODI water that is only used for my reef aquarium. Yes all tap water is safe for drinking but like I said the legal safe limit is considered about 500pmm and I have seen my tap water at 525ppm before. Most city and home plumbing is made from copper pipes so you get a lot of copper in the water which is bad for plants in large amounts. Those copper pipes are soldered together using solder that contains lead which is bad for all living things. Not saying you cant use tap water I do on all my other plants and many people do so on their marijuana plants with no issues. For me its about controlling what is going into my plants.
 
intenseneal said:
Well lets put it this way. Do you drink tap water?
Click to expand...

Yes, I do.

The quality of tap water is regulated by various agencies.

You'd probably be shocked to learn that there are very few testing and analytical requirements for bottled water as compared to municipal water supplies.

You believe bottled water to be "nasty". Congratulations. You've succumbed to the marketing and advertising of the bottled water industry.

Here's a test for you. Take two identical containers of bottled water. Empty one, and fill it with treated municipal tap water. Now set both bottled outside in the hot sun for a couple of days and watch the algae and other microorganisms grow in the bottled water while the municipal tap water remains unaffected. Don't believe me? Ask any of the thousands of Hurricane Katrina victims who experienced the same thing.

Here's a study that was conducted on the bottled water industry in terms of quality and testing.

http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/bw/exesum.asp

Surprised? It's bottled WATER that is nasty, not tap. Won't catch ME drinking bottled water anytime soon.

And NO municipal systems gets water from "several different sources". Most are drawn from deep, deep well where a constant supply is available in the aquifer that has been tapped.

And what's with this statement about municipal water reports being unreliable? Huh? Let's see YOUR analysis as compared to the municipal analysis, and prove me wrong.

This country survived and thrived for decades w/o bottled water. Now all of a sudden, bottle water is better than tap?

It's all about the marketing.

My plants do just fine on my tap water.
 
intenseneal said:
^^ That is why you add nutes into RO water to replace what is being removed that the plant needs. Removing good stuff from the water is a by-product of removing all the bad stuff, this is why I use RO water and not my 0ppm TDS RODI water that is only used for my reef aquarium. Yes all tap water is safe for drinking but like I said the legal safe limit is considered about 500pmm and I have seen my tap water at 525ppm before. Most city and home plumbing is made from copper pipes so you get a lot of copper in the water which is bad for plants in large amounts. Those copper pipes are soldered together using solder that contains lead which is bad for all living things. Not saying you cant use tap water I do on all my other plants and many people do so on their marijuana plants with no issues. For me its about controlling what is going into my plants.
Click to expand...
Trust me when I tell you the copper and lead in your pipes and solder joints are not leaching anything into the water your feeding your plants, and if it was the case how have you been living in your home for (I would guess at least 19 years, as that is the age limit here :shock:) you would have been drinking, bathing, and using your this copper/lead toxic water for cooking; and maybe even watering your outdoor garden (plants and vegetables). :?

I guess if your water is showing 550PPM you WILL need to do something, but how in the hell can you drink that water; it cannot be clean or free from the nastys. If you have been drinking tap water in your municipality for more than 2 years I would say it is safe for your plants.

You can check out some of the very interesting findings whats in your drinking water from the EWG (Environmental working group)

Here is a report on drinking water in the us -> http://www.ewg.org/tap-water/reportfindings
and a ranking by city --> http://www.ewg.org/tap-water/rating-big-city-water

our guidelines her in Canada seem to be a tad stricter. :hump:, and in Alberta you can get this wonderful yearly pamphlet outlining our drinking water contents; here is last years analysis

regards,
 
No I dont think bottled water is nasty, tap was is nasty it tastes like crap. I also dont by bottled water. I have my own RODI filter for making purified water for myself, my family, my plants and my reef aquarium.
Bad stuff in tap water is chlorine, chloramine, lead, copper, mercury, pollutants from farming and rain run off.
If you have ever been to a factory where they produce bottled water you would know that the bottled water is much cleaner than tap water. Most bottled water companies start off with city tap water then they RO filter it and serialize the water with either Ozone or UV.
Yes many cities will draw their water from more than one source Las Vegas for example uses Lake Mead most of the year until summer when there is no rain or snow melt to fill the lake and the lake level starts to drop. Once that happens Vegas starts to pull water from under ground water soures and even has it piped in from out of state. You live in Canada not the desert where water is harder to come by and needs to be managed.
 
intenseneal said:
No I dont think bottled water is nasty, tap was is nasty it tastes like crap. I also dont by bottled water. I have my own RODI filter for making purified water for myself, my family, my plants and my reef aquarium.
Click to expand...

If you've young children in the house (under the age of say 12), I hope you're giving them some type of mineral supplement as the stripped water they're drinking is devoid of essential trace elements like Cr, Cu, Mg, Mn, and others that are biological necessities. People, especially children, who drink RO or "stripped" water can suffer from deficiency diseases.
 
So you think bottled water is no good for you then since it is filtered in the same way?? And RO water is not stripped, my RO water as of last night is 25ppm. Only RODI water or distilled water is 0ppm and totally stripped. We also get most if not all of the vitamins and minerals we need from the food we eat.
 
My tap water is at 250-300ppm year round other than spring flush by the city. I run my room hot compared to most. My highest ppm is around 1900 or so. My starting point is not zero its 300, so actually that 1900 is 1600ppm.

If you have your water check you will most likely see that if it comes out of your taps and you live in a city enviorment it may not be pure but it is safe to drink. Most particles in my water are a size that will not effect the uptake of nutrients to my plants, they will though build up to toxic level so a proper leaching habit is a good idea.

R/O in my opinion is not required if you actually know your water source. Water anylisis should be available upon request from the city you live in, or have one done right from your taps for a few bucks first before investing in a R/O unit

R/O's have their place, if your on well water or using a dugout or maybe even in a small town enviorment R/O's can be a saving grace but I tell ya from experience there is no benifet to your plants if you have pallatable water already.

Everyone says you increase your yeild when using an R/O unit! I call bullshit!

Side by side testing has proven that to me and for my set up tap water is the only way to go.
 
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