Pretty much sums up the education system.

iamnobody

Well-Known Member
Sorry, not picking a fight but you and I have a fundamentally different view. I would pick Shakespeare as one thousand times more important to my brain than anything I ever learned in shop. The frog would be high up there too.

To skip over Shakespeare to work on job interview skills goes against the grain of our educational strategy and tradition. The german schools test the living shit out of you early and decide which kids are too dumb for Shakespeare. They give them a wrench instead. But maybe in a few years they will show them "Romeo and Juliet"

But we don't do that here... Or didn't used too. Our view is that even those of us with limited capabilities have a right to a liberal arts education so they might aspire to higher thought (like Forrest Gump). It is a tough call to make as far as policy goes.

But you are missing my point about this as is the vampire in the video. Perhaps a bit of Shakespeare got through to him. He does seem to have accomplished making a song and a video.

I mentioned that we stand on the shoulders of Giants. William Shakepeare was among the greatest of those Giants. Do yourself a favor and read "Brave New World" (which is not Shakespeare but deals with the topic at hand). I'll send you a copy. A society cannot ignore these accomplishments and achieve anything worthwhile in the future. Maybe your average truck driver doesn't give a fuck about Shakespeare, but I will bet a whole lot do - even if only filtered through Loonie Tune memories or country and western music. I would rather smoke a bowl with one that did. Rather live next to one that did. Rather marry his daughter, etc.

Lest you think I skipped the part about the practical uses... Inspiration is very practical. Also irreplaceable.
Not trying to pick a fight either, just trying to help you understand that even though shakespeare might be interesting and even somewhat enlightening, it has no practical use in becoming a productive member of today's society.

"today is witch's time of night, where grave's in cemeteries open and hell itself breathes foul contagious air into the world" - hamlet

I had to memorize that entire passage for a class project during my freshman year. I've forgotten the rest sadly, but I still know the opening line by heart.

A proper education will be used regularly once out of school, not forgotten. That's just my opinion however.

It's perfectly fine to explore all matter's of education, and not just the basics to survive on. But towards the last few years of school (before college) there should be a primary focus on what it means to be an adult and not drilling us with impractical information.

During high school electives should be set to focus on subjects like art, history, science, advanced math and the like with the main objectives being home financing, first aid, proper parenting, driver's ed, college entry courses (that cover selecting and applying) and so forth.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Then go back and watch the video and educate yourself.

First line few lines "I wasn't taught how to get a job, but I can remember dissecting a frog. I don't wasn't taught how to pay tax, but I know loads about shakespeare's classics" - tell me out of those 4 which 2 would be useful information to know.

Literally everything after middle school education has been absolutely fucking useless to me. Only in my short time in college (which my prior-education did not even begin to prepare me for) have I had to use any of my education after 6th grade, and even then it was a fraction of what they taught me. I remember the lessons that we covered - algebra, science, chemistry, Texas history, World History, American History, more Algebra, reading/writing, chemistry, geology, we did a half semester on fucking line dancing for christ sake, but if I had to go back a take a quiz on any of them I'd fail because I've forgotten it all due to lack of use.

Yet I was 26 when I got my driver's license. If someone were to stop breathing and fall over I wouldn't be able to do shit for them. I have no idea how to file taxes (my wife has to do that for me). I have a vague idea on how to build a resume' because of youtube/google. I have no idea how to select a college (which would have been nice to know 6yrs ago before I realized the one I went to was a scam and ended up drowning in student loans). I have no idea how process a mortgage. You know all the stuff needed to know to survive in life.

Can we really consider it education if none of what we're taught has any practical use?
Seriously you just told the guy who has more advanced degrees than a fuckin' thermometer, to get an education from a 3:18 video. This is turning out to be a wonderful day :D
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Seriously you just told the guy who has more advanced degrees than a fuckin' thermometer, to get an education from a 3:18 video. This is turning out to be a wonderful day :D
Yes it really is, now go upstairs and get more of that LA Affie #2 mmmmmmmmmm cantaloupe
 

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
I don't the think his message "Don't stay in school" is supposed to be taken literal. More along the lines of "what's the point if they won't teach us anything that we can actually use?"

I agree with him on everything though.

After 12 years of school the only parts I remember are Reading, Writing, and Basic Math, with little sprinkles of science and history. I was a straight A student all through out, but the sad truth is that I've forgotten about 90% of my "education" simply due to lack of use. The stuff that I really needed to know I was never taught.

I could have dropped out in 6th grade, started working, and I would have been better off for it.
I believe that responsibility is on the parents... school teaches you to read and write blaming school for having no direction in life is pretty retarded imo... If anyone should be blamed it should be parents. The public school system shouldn't raise your kids..
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Not really true but thanks.
True, but only a bit of an exaggeration, yours, Singlemalt, Cannabineer and several others erudition is delightful, a pleasure to read and partake of, sadly it seems mostly a dying art with a few exceptions.

Today seems to be a ball of confusion. The issue that no one seems to be discussing is what does anyone have to learn once the machines are completely up and running? How do we find value, keep score, and how will the masses survive and who chooses?

Sure feels like the precipice to me, much more so than the Cuban Missile Crisis of my youth.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Not trying to pick a fight either, just trying to help you understand that even though shakespeare might be interesting and even somewhat enlightening, it has no practical use in becoming a productive member of today's society.

"today is witch's time of night, where grave's in cemeteries open and hell itself breathes foul contagious air into the world" - hamlet

I had to memorize that entire passage for a class project during my freshman year. I've forgotten the rest sadly, but I still know the opening line by heart.

A proper education will be used regularly once out of school, not forgotten. That's just my opinion however.

It's perfectly fine to explore all matter's of education, and not just the basics to survive on. But towards the last few years of school (before college) there should be a primary focus on what it means to be an adult and not drilling us with impractical information.

During high school electives should be set to focus on subjects like art, history, science, advanced math and the like with the main objectives being home financing, first aid, proper parenting, driver's ed, college entry courses (that cover selecting and applying) and so forth.
This pretty much parallels the debate about education in this country. It is a really difficult thing to implement policy on a subject that means so much to a society that is as diverse as ours. I don't know how I would solve it.

Except.... I have a son now. My primary goal will be to light this kid's fire of imagination and curiousity. I know exactly how I will proceed with my son. But no idea how to deal with everybody else's.

I will say this. There are forces today that seek to discredit education. They seek to deny the tools of critical thinking to enough people to achieve a permanent power base for themselves. This has happened many, many times before in history but i feel that the threat looms large today. When you lack the skills to analyze things, they can and will tell you lies.

Pick up a book. Perhaps the one I suggested. Light your own fires by feeling the heat of others'. Or perhaps a spark will leap. Another book I would recommend would be "The Nazi Seizure of Power". Learn the power of 'The Big Lie' and watch it consume a small German town and the souls of all that lived there.

Abe Lincoln didn't spend much time in school but he knew Shakespeare very well. I wanna be on that side. Nobody called Abe Lincoln.... an asshole.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
True, but only a bit of an exaggeration, yours, Singlemalt, Cannabineer and several others erudition is delightful, a pleasure to read and partake of, sadly it seems mostly a dying art with a few exceptions.

Today seems to be a ball of confusion. The issue that no one seems to be discussing is what does anyone have to learn once the machines are completely up and running? How do we find value, keep score, and how will the masses survive and who chooses?

Sure feels like the precipice to me, much more so than the Cuban Missile Crisis of my youth.
Weed helps me think. That's why I dig it.


The everyday hummmm just fades away.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
True, but only a bit of an exaggeration, yours, Singlemalt, Cannabineer and several others erudition is delightful, a pleasure to read and partake of, sadly it seems mostly a dying art with a few exceptions.

Today seems to be a ball of confusion. The issue that no one seems to be discussing is what does anyone have to learn once the machines are completely up and running? How do we find value, keep score, and how will the masses survive and who chooses?

Sure feels like the precipice to me, much more so than the Cuban Missile Crisis of my youth.
Actually that debate is happening. And it is a precipice. Technology.
 

iamnobody

Well-Known Member
I believe that responsibility is on the parents... school teaches you to read and write blaming school for having no direction in life is pretty retarded imo... If anyone should be blamed it should be parents. The public school system shouldn't raise your kids..
I rely on the school to educate children into being productive members of society, not to just push useless material on them in order keep up funding.

I'm not blaming school for lack of direction, I'm blaming them for lack of proper education. Like I've said before a true education is not forgotten due to lack of use.

Seriously you just told the guy who has more advanced degrees than a fuckin' thermometer, to get an education from a 3:18 video. This is turning out to be a wonderful day :D
To say you disagree with something without even attempting to understand the message presented is willful ignorance. That was my point in the statement.

This pretty much parallels the debate about education in this country. It is a really difficult thing to implement policy on a subject that means so much to a society that is as diverse as ours. I don't know how I would solve it.

Except.... I have a son now. My primary goal will be to light this kid's fire of imagination and curiousity. I know exactly how I will proceed with my son. But no idea how to deal with everybody else's.

I will say this. There are forces today that seek to discredit education. They seek to deny the tools of critical thinking to enough people to achieve a permanent power base for themselves. This has happened many, many times before in history but i feel that the threat looms large today. When you lack the skills to analyze things, they can and will tell you lies.

Pick up a book. Perhaps the one I suggested. Light your own fires by feeling the heat of others'. Or perhaps a spark will leap. Another book I would recommend would be "The Nazi Seizure of Power". Learn the power of 'The Big Lie' and watch it consume a small German town and the souls of all that lived there.

Abe Lincoln didn't spend much time in school but he knew Shakespeare very well. I wanna be on that side. Nobody called Abe Lincoln.... an asshole.
It'd surprise you how much I read, and my understanding on the events of WW2. I won't claim to be an expert by any means but I do like to read about it in my spare time.

If you want to light a fire under your son for inspiration try looking into Emily Dickinson. She was a poet who, was also a hermit. Can't remember her lifetime, but the most interesting thing about her (at least to me) is that she would always wear a wedding dress.

Some good books (old and new) Harry Potter series, Dracula, First 3 of the vampire Chronicles, The witch of Cologne (great book about a jewish midwife during the spanish inquisition), The hunger games.

Wanting a copy of Dante's Inferno.

As far as music goes try listening to "motivation proclamation" - good Charlotte as well as "To have and to have not" - lars fredrikson and the bastards.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
I rely on the school to educate children into being productive members of society, not to just push useless material on them in order keep up funding.

I'm not blaming school for lack of direction, I'm blaming them for lack of proper education. Like I've said before a true education is not forgotten due to lack of use.

To say you disagree with something without even attempting to understand the message presented is willful ignorance. That was my point in the statement.
It's about vetting your sources and apportioning resources based upon perceived value, something our traditional educations beat into us, sorry. Also I disagree with your first premise, that you rely on schools to educate your, putative, children into being productive members of society. Give me your children and I control your future, smh, history it just keeps repeating on me like bad italian food.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
To say you disagree with something without even attempting to understand the message presented is willful ignorance. That was my point in the statement.
I did attempt to understand it. It took me about ten seconds to understand it. He is far from the first to say it. It is age old and almost everybody said it better than he did. And while I may have jumped to conclusions (by not watching it through), my initial impression of this guy's take were totally accurate. But even now, after many, many posts, you fail to see my point.

Seriously, if you have life problems like paying your taxes and job skill shit there are a whole lot of places to turn. You can learn taxes in a day. We can point you in the right direction.

A productive society needs to be full of people who share common values of right and wrong, good and bad - or it seems to me that this is the case. Those very basic decisions are taught not inherited. Education sets this into motion.

Yeah, I know that many people don't have the skills that you speak of. But they should be taught at home and in life. School is a different thing. School is education. Not training. And educated mind can do anything... Training can render you obsolete at the next turn in the road.

This sort of reminds me of the fact that a local jurisdiction shut down school for two days on account of cold? Why cold? We went to fucking school when it was 20 below! What has changed? The most loudly repeated justification was that "some people can't afford coats for their kids." What?! Are you fucking serious? Remember the Great Depression? Nobody could afford coats for their kids and they didnt have smart phones either. Oddly, education here was actually often quite good. Even before Gore Tex. Go to a library and read a newspaper from the 1890s. I think you might be shocked to find how far our standards have fallen in comparison.

Education is important. You can't make up for developing a human mind when it should be developed. If it were up to me I would have had them teach you Latin too.
 

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
I rely on the school to educate children into being productive members of society, not to just push useless material on them in order keep up funding.

I'm not blaming school for lack of direction, I'm blaming them for lack of proper education. Like I've said before a true education is not forgotten due to lack of use.



To say you disagree with something without even attempting to understand the message presented is willful ignorance. That was my point in the statement.



It'd surprise you how much I read, and my understanding on the events of WW2. I won't claim to be an expert by any means but I do like to read about it in my spare time.

If you want to light a fire under your son for inspiration try looking into Emily Dickinson. She was a poet who, was also a hermit. Can't remember her lifetime, but the most interesting thing about her (at least to me) is that she would always wear a wedding dress.

Some good books (old and new) Harry Potter series, Dracula, First 3 of the vampire Chronicles, The witch of Cologne (great book about a jewish midwife during the spanish inquisition), The hunger games.

Wanting a copy of Dante's Inferno.

As far as music goes try listening to "motivation proclamation" - good Charlotte as well as "To have and to have not" - lars fredrikson and the bastards.
You shouldn't expect anyone that doesn't love you to shove everything you need to succeed in life down your throat. U need to be a hunter...u can't be sitting with your mouth open all pissed off because no one taught you what you think you should know .. I think college is when you can learn whatever the fuck you think is important. ..All the other schooling before that is just a basic foundation..
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
Im all for home schooling. Public education has little to do with learning.
I'm big into the arts also but the only thing I retained from Shakespeare is the first line from Macbeth....First we kill all the lawyers.
 

iamnobody

Well-Known Member
It's about vetting your sources and apportioning resources based upon perceived value, something our traditional educations beat into us, sorry. Also I disagree with your first premise, that you rely on schools to educate your, putative, children into being productive members of society. Give me your children and I control your future, smh, history it just keeps repeating on me like bad italian food.
What is the point of education then if not to help develop minds into becoming productive adults? Early exposure to the fundamentals of all forms of education is needed, the last 4 years of school should be geared more towards educating children into becoming functioning adults. Considering that the average age of graduat a high school graduate is 18 how is a new formed adult expected to survive when when they know literally nothing about what it takes to be an adult?

I did attempt to understand it. It took me about ten seconds to understand it. He is far from the first to say it. It is age old and almost everybody said it better than he did. And while I may have jumped to conclusions (by not watching it through), my initial impression of this guy's take were totally accurate. But even now, after many, many posts, you fail to see my point.

Seriously, if you have life problems like paying your taxes and job skill shit there are a whole lot of places to turn. You can learn taxes in a day. We can point you in the right direction.

A productive society needs to be full of people who share common values of right and wrong, good and bad - or it seems to me that this is the case. Those very basic decisions are taught not inherited. Education sets this into motion.

Yeah, I know that many people don't have the skills that you speak of. But they should be taught at home and in life. School is a different thing. School is education. Not training. And educated mind can do anything... Training can render you obsolete at the next turn in the road.

This sort of reminds me of the fact that a local jurisdiction shut down school for two days on account of cold? Why cold? We went to fucking school when it was 20 below! What has changed? The most loudly repeated justification was that "some people can't afford coats for their kids." What?! Are you fucking serious? Remember the Great Depression? Nobody could afford coats for their kids and they didnt have smart phones either. Oddly, education here was actually often quite good. Even before Gore Tex. Go to a library and read a newspaper from the 1890s. I think you might be shocked to find how far our standards have fallen in comparison.

Education is important. You can't make up for developing a human mind when it should be developed. If it were up to me I would have had them teach you Latin too.

And why can't it be both? Not everyone has capable parents that can teach their children. Furthermore how are we expected to learn the fundamentals of adulthood from people who were never taught them self?

Life experience? Nobody share's the same experiences in life. Even people who went through the exact same thing will come out with a different experience.

Trial and error? That method doesn't really apply to a lot of things that are bound to happen in life.

One of the things that was mentioned in the video, (and why I think you are wrong to write it off so quickly) is that we are not taught things such as CPR and how to identify warning signs of basic illness or mental illnesses. This is life saving situations that people are not taught because it is deemed more important to know quadratic formula (Something that I was taught every year in school, but couldn't remember because I have yet to use it the 10 years since I've graduated).

You shouldn't expect anyone that doesn't love you to shove everything you need to succeed in life down your throat. U need to be a hunter...u can't be sitting with your mouth open all pissed off because no one taught you what you think you should know .. I think college is when you can learn whatever the fuck you think is important. ..All the other schooling before that is just a basic foundation..
Not to succeed, but to survive in today's society.

My education did not offer me any college entry courses, did not offer any information on how to apply for college, did not offer any information on how to scout for college, did not offer any courses on understanding student loans, no courses on applying for grants.

My mother is a walmart employee, my dad was a truck driver so they did not have the information necessary to assist in this.

Because of all this I ended up going to a scam of an online college, to naive to realise what was happening. Student loans are not something that are really forgiving on the "trial and error" method. The 15 collections agencies that keep calling me are proof of that.

Now I said this before, and you've ignored it every time. So I ask you to think about what I'm saying and respond.

A proper education is not forgotten because of lack of use.

If you disagree with that statement then please explain to me why, also if you could explain how a non-practical subject that will be forgotten before use is in anyway considered proper education.


Oh man I hate illiterate assholes. Read a book and fuck off.
Very well thought out point of view. Now could you please present it on an intellectual level or would you prefer to remain looking like an ignorant hypocrite with no valid argument to add to a debate?
 

gR33nDav3l0l

Well-Known Member
lol ignorant hypocrite? What I said is self explanatory for someone that dropped school, otherwise engaging in intellectual dialogue would be impossible to understand.
 
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