churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Iron Sulfate.
Problems with LED vs. CFL
- Thread starter tightpockt
- Start date
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
Got some today, i planned on using epsom initially but the stores were closed and i was high and impatient last night...it felt like the more I looked at it the worse it got
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
Rust water?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
cal-mag+ is dumb.
It's just watered down calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and chelated iron.
You could get those individually, and use magnesium sulfate instead since it's cheaper and you don't need it in a stock solution, and same with iron sulfate vs chelated. Iron sulfate is fine as long as it's not mixed in a stock solution with certain other chemicals, like boron. Iron sulfate (green) mixed with sodium borate (white) together turns into a black cloudy insoluble precipitate. Mixing in nitric acid causes it to turn orange and soluble.. too much info... hmm.
It's just watered down calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and chelated iron.
You could get those individually, and use magnesium sulfate instead since it's cheaper and you don't need it in a stock solution, and same with iron sulfate vs chelated. Iron sulfate is fine as long as it's not mixed in a stock solution with certain other chemicals, like boron. Iron sulfate (green) mixed with sodium borate (white) together turns into a black cloudy insoluble precipitate. Mixing in nitric acid causes it to turn orange and soluble.. too much info... hmm.
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Jeeyah
Well-Known Member
The same thing happened to me when I started vegging with Area 51 lights a few months ago. My plants were dying. I was adding Calimagic at different ratios to try to fix it. That just adds more nitrogen, and makes things worse. Lol Now I don't add Calimagic or Epsom salt at all. I also run my nutrient regimen at half strength now. (Sativas) Excess nitrogen can lockout magnesium. I have to be careful with my new sativas.
I can't see your garden. But, I'm pretty sure smowstack gave you the right answer. In the end, I had my lights too close. At first, too far. Then, too close. The light was the size of my T5's. But, more powerful than HPS. I had to figure that out the hard way.
Try keeping them 18-24" for a while. And, feed them as normal. Hope that helps.
Peace.
I can't see your garden. But, I'm pretty sure smowstack gave you the right answer. In the end, I had my lights too close. At first, too far. Then, too close. The light was the size of my T5's. But, more powerful than HPS. I had to figure that out the hard way.
Try keeping them 18-24" for a while. And, feed them as normal. Hope that helps.
Peace.
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
I have some epsom salts, the calcium nitrate is on it's way ($10 for 4 pounds), I don't know what chelated iron is or what ratios to use at all but my plants are looking worse by the day. I'm wondering if this condition will continue when I flower with the cobs.
I've been trying one tsp per gallon of epsom salts for the past few days. No change. The thing about the calcium nitrate is I'm worried it'll be too much nitrogen, I'm already using dynagro foliage pro which is N heavy.
@Jeeyah So raising your lights fixed your problem? That might be an issue, I'm pretty height restricted.
I was hoping the led's would have a more vigorous veg than the cfl resulting in more buds but in the limited space I have the cfls perform pretty well.
I'm breaking my no picture posting policy. Any advice is welcome.
I've been trying one tsp per gallon of epsom salts for the past few days. No change. The thing about the calcium nitrate is I'm worried it'll be too much nitrogen, I'm already using dynagro foliage pro which is N heavy.
@Jeeyah So raising your lights fixed your problem? That might be an issue, I'm pretty height restricted.
I was hoping the led's would have a more vigorous veg than the cfl resulting in more buds but in the limited space I have the cfls perform pretty well.
I'm breaking my no picture posting policy. Any advice is welcome.
Attachments
What is your runoff ph and ppm?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It could be a coincidence, I'm not really liking my 5000k 70cri veg lamp either. The growth is just not as good as when it was under vero 3000k 80cri.
SomeGuy
Well-Known Member
Im surprised. I am running two veg lights. 5 x vero 10 5000k at 350ma each fixture. each one covers a 2x4 x 3' high area. I think Im less than six inches off the plants in spots and nothing but green growth. Explosive even. I find the stuff under 3000k for veg to be a bit lanky for my liking.
@tightpockt
I do use cal-mag. did not prior to using leds. I find they need a bit more nutrients in veg than they used to under cfl though. So maybe they are starved? Hope you get it fixed.
Positivity
Well-Known Member
My 5k 70cri veg light does okay on its own. I've been leaving the small red boost on lately. That combo works pretty good. Ideally I wouldn't want to mess with small stars in veg though. I'd think at this point 4000k 80cri would veg best... Or, maybe just a 80cri 5000k. 70cri doesn't seem to have a very high light quality for plants
Just rambling on things I've possibly noticed..
Positivity
Well-Known Member
Interesting...I need to turn my reds off in veg again and look a little closer into it
What cri are your veros?
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SomeGuy
Well-Known Member
This is just my experience. They have been running 3 weeks now. I noticed a pretty significant increased nutrient requirement across the board compared to vegging with my cfl that were at 6000k. I used to be able to feed just water several times between nutrient feedings but now its every time.
Positivity
Well-Known Member
Same here, much less nutrient problems now. Keeping them in small pots bonsai style is easier than ever, just dial the light to just the right intensity.
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
Seems we're running the same lights...You're running 5 @ 9 wattts for each 2x4 area? That's like 5 watts per square foot. I'm using 8 in a 1.5 x 1.5 area..geez, maybe that's part of the issue. I tend to over do it.
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
Here's the CFL setup....check out those reflectors! Everybody loves Coke.Does anyone know SPECIFICALLY what causes the Mg deficiency from LED (I believe its more Mg than Cal, I may be wrong)? I ran the exact same strain (clones) and within 1 week of flowering I ran into Mg deficiency whereas under HPS, I NEVER had Mg issues. Pretty crazy as I really did not believe it would happen, thought it was more of a case by case basis but it seems across the board.
Whats weird too is I grew for a short time with a PlatinumLED (P450) and NEVER had Mg deficiency issues. It worked under the same nute schedule was the HPS plants. Only 1 week in flower under my CXB3070 and I had Mg issues! It was easily corrected and better now, just a bit of a learning curve. Id really like to know what exactly causes it. People say "spectrum" but that is a poor answer and very vague. Trying to figure it out I just have not found any solid documentation.
Whats weird too is I grew for a short time with a PlatinumLED (P450) and NEVER had Mg deficiency issues. It worked under the same nute schedule was the HPS plants. Only 1 week in flower under my CXB3070 and I had Mg issues! It was easily corrected and better now, just a bit of a learning curve. Id really like to know what exactly causes it. People say "spectrum" but that is a poor answer and very vague. Trying to figure it out I just have not found any solid documentation.
I think what's meant by "spectrum" is that more umoles are reaching the canopy. Driving the plant's photosynthesis harder and creating a deficiency that didn't exist when there was enough mg to satisfy the photosynthesis occurring under lower umoles.
I think the difference between your COB and the Platinum is that the COB is more efficient, producing more umoles. I think the difference between LED and HPS is that you can get the LED closer and overdo the umoles compared to an HPS. I.e., it's just HPS's nature that you can't overdo the umules without burning the plants with radiant heat. It's a self-correcting problem.
LED makes it easy to do the "more is better" mistake.How many watts per sq. ft. do you run with your COBs? That's not as accurate as measuring actual umoles at the canopy. But, if you're doing something like 40w/sq ft with such an efficient light (or, have it too close) I think that would coincide with my theory.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Which cree light bulbs at home depot provide good plant growth?