*** This is a long read, sorry, but a very interesting one. I urge you all to read it and learn if you don't already know. ***
Being that RIU is a marijuana forum, I thought that there might be interesting views on Prohibition.
I'm going to write in defense of Prohibition. Now calm down, I don't give a shit whether you drink or not, or smoke bud for that matter. Because I'm going to defend Prohibition, that doesn't mean I want it brought back- I just want it to make more sense. Whenever you look at history and something looks stupid that was widely accepted- It's probably because you don't understand the circumstances of the time.
I think when most people think about Prohibition they think of it as a moral or religious crusade, and while those elements were certainly there- I don't think we quite understand those sources and the others around it. The idea of Prohibition was actually around for a long time- During the revolutionary period some, some historians believe we drank 3 times more than we do now. Even during the civil war, pushes for Prohibition were popular. They wanted to ban hard liquor but keep beer and hard cider. The idea of Prohibition grew even larger when people were moving to large cities in the early 1900's. Saloons and bars popped up everywhere and most people who worked in factories were regular drinkers. The overwhelming majority of people who drank heavily were men. Now often on this forum or when talking about legalizing drugs, I hear that its a victim-less crime and who cares what I do with my body- it's my body. But at this time, drink in excess was not a victim-less crime. Often when the men drank, the women and children suffered. You have to understand, this was a time when women had very very few rights. It was very hard to get a divorce, they couldn't testify in court, bring charges on somebody, own property- It was very hard to be on your own if you were a woman. You basically had to have a man in your life. This was very harmful because it basically gave the man the right to beat and rape you, along with your children. So at that time, drinking was not a victim-less crime- There were victims. Very real victim. It's not like today where the woman can divorce and get a job or help by some public or private assistance programs. And that were the push for banning alcohol came from- Women.
Organizations such as the Women's Christian Temperance Movement pushed for prohibition. More than it was a push against alcohol, it was a women's rights movement. What they were saying more than we have a problem with you having fun and drinking or the morality of drinking- They were saying alcohol is destroying women's and children's lives. This is what we often don't think about when talking about Prohibition. Of course there are other factors.
At the time, there were talks of banning liquor, and not beer. This created a game between distillers and brewers. Many of the brewers went around trying to shut down the distillers and make liquor illegal so everyone would drink beer, and vice versa. Just like today where beer companies spend enormous amounts of money trying to keep marijuana illegal. Ironically, when Prohibition does come around, the brewers got shut down too, but that wasn't the plan. There is also elements of racism, where drinking was associated with immigrants- specifically the Germans and the Irish- So maybe I should say ethnic ism. The truth is Americans that were here for generations probably drank as much as these immigrants. Just like today where drug use among white are higher, but the stereotype is that blacks and Hispanics use marijuana more. So it was very similar to today- The family that was here since the Mayflower days gets just as drunk as the newly migrated immigrants but the anger is taken out on the immigrants. There also was a religious angle. Many found that drinking excessively was a problem in terms of religion. And then there's one more issue that isn't talked about often- Taxation.
By the turn of the century, Progressives wanted a more progressive taxation system. At that time, the single largest source of revenue was the tax on alcohol, interesting. The income tax on the pre-prohibition era was the alcohol tax. You think back to the whiskey rebellion with Alexander Hamilton. Alcohol tax was a regressive tax because wealthy people payed a much smaller percent of tax on their income than poorer people. So the progressives of the time wanted the wealthy to pay as much as the poor in form of a income tax. So progressive saw prohibition as a way of creating an income tax. So while most people think of Prohibition as a ban on alcohol, it was also a push for a more progressive taxation system. This often split the country into wet republican and dry republicans, and wet democrats and dry democrats. So we have women's and children's rights advocates, brewers and distillers, taxation issues, racism, and religious elements. So when we enter WWI, it almost turns patriotic to oppose beer, because many of the Germans are fighting for it, and seen as a large consumer of it. So many people will join the Prohibition movement because we are fighting the Germans during the war. That is really the kicker that pushes Prohibition over the top.
Prohibition was more popular in the south, in rural places, than in the North- more urban. When the 18th Amendment is passed, a famous quote was said: "The reign of tears is over, the slums will only be a memory, we will turn our prisons into factories and jails into storehouses and corn cribs, men will walk upright now, women will smile, and the children will laugh- Hell will forever be forgotten". Now that all seems funny and pie in the sky-ish. But listen to all the problems they associate with alcohol abuse. It wasn't about a moral issue- It was about the victims of alcohol and the nation as a whole, both economically and in terms of productivity. It's also funny because today we argue that prisons will no longer be overloaded if we legalize marijuana, the opposite of then- to make alcohol illegal-- Kind of ironic. Even during Prohibition, I should mention- withing two or three years you could buy a prescription of alcohol from you doctor and go home and drink it- Much like medical marijuana today. I should also mention that during that time, the rich weren't really affected by Prohibition as much because they had stock piled liquor and beer- You have to remember- It was legal to drink it, just not sell it or buy it. The President at the time openly drank alcohol in the White House because he has it stock piled.
I know many people will argue that Prohibition created organized crime- But I think that was bigger in our imagination than it was in real life. Perhaps a bigger issue, I know this is often talked about when discussing legalizing marijuana, once you make it it illegal, you deregulate it. When alcohol was deregulated and made illegal, speakeasies popped up everywhere and women and children often went there to drink and get wasted. With marijuana being illegal, young children can easily access marijuana- Just like they did in speakeasies. So what you have is women and children drinking at these places in an illegal way, where they never did before. Just like with marijuana, if it was legalized, children wouldn't be able to buy it if they were underage- this is considering that we would only be able to buy it at regulated dispensaries.
So where did Prohibition go? I think many people think that it was a stupid idea in the first place and we undid it, and because how can you legislate morality- But that can't be right, because we have made all these other drugs illegal, so it's not that we have a problem legislating morality- Something more specific had to happen to kill Prohibition as an issue. What happened was women's rights and the welfare state. Ultimately it was about women;s rights and what we do with the poorest people of society. Once a woman can leave her husband, and once a woman can have real career options, and once a poor person can get help from the government and is not entirely dependent on a man, a husband or father in this case, then there is no longer a need for Prohibition. Now that we live in a world where a woman can have a career and be self sufficient, while she might marry a man, she can also leave him without being destroyed personally and economically. That's why there is no more real talk about Prohibition. At the end of the day, it was never about morality, it was about women and children's rights. It was about women's rights and about whether the government should step in and help the poorest of out society. Many people think Prohibition lost. It didn't lose, it won. What it wanted was a better life for women and children, and it got just that- so don't laugh too hard at those Prohibitionists.
Another thing that came out of Prohibition was the special interest group. Not my favorite thing to come out, but it did. The Women's Christian Temperance Movement and the Anti-Saloon League combined to create a special interest group. They were a high pressure group that organized many people across the country. They had an iron grip in a ton of congressional districts across America, where if you made them mad, you had no chance of winning election- Kind of like the NRA today- both high pressure special interest group but with different issues but same tactics.
So maybe next time you're thinking about Prohibition or talking about it with somebody- maybe you can talk about it a little differently now, because I think most people don't understand it. Ask yourself this- Was the people arguing for prohibition of alcohol completely wrong for the reasons they were arguing? And did they win? Because I think they won.
*** I bolded some excepts above because I know it is a long read, but maybe some of the lines might catch their eye and have them read this long post (I know sorry) so they can learn a little more about Prohibition- Being that this is a forum on a site based on marijuana, where marijuana is illegal in most of the countries that they are from.***
So What do you all think? And do you think there has to be an issue attached to marijuana that might help the push to legalize it? One attached issue that we have is the medical aspect. Medical marijuana has helped in many states. What's another issue that might help? Do you think we need another issue, or just push to legalize it as a moral issue or another reason? Do you think that maybe we should use the reason of the amount of people being locked up every year to argue to legalize? I like that one- Maybe it is because I was on that side of the fence not too long ago. Either way, the number are astounding. And the racial aspect. So many more minorities are arrested per year despite the numbers being weighted against them- meaning drug use among whites out weighs blacks, according to most studies.
Being that RIU is a marijuana forum, I thought that there might be interesting views on Prohibition.
I'm going to write in defense of Prohibition. Now calm down, I don't give a shit whether you drink or not, or smoke bud for that matter. Because I'm going to defend Prohibition, that doesn't mean I want it brought back- I just want it to make more sense. Whenever you look at history and something looks stupid that was widely accepted- It's probably because you don't understand the circumstances of the time.
I think when most people think about Prohibition they think of it as a moral or religious crusade, and while those elements were certainly there- I don't think we quite understand those sources and the others around it. The idea of Prohibition was actually around for a long time- During the revolutionary period some, some historians believe we drank 3 times more than we do now. Even during the civil war, pushes for Prohibition were popular. They wanted to ban hard liquor but keep beer and hard cider. The idea of Prohibition grew even larger when people were moving to large cities in the early 1900's. Saloons and bars popped up everywhere and most people who worked in factories were regular drinkers. The overwhelming majority of people who drank heavily were men. Now often on this forum or when talking about legalizing drugs, I hear that its a victim-less crime and who cares what I do with my body- it's my body. But at this time, drink in excess was not a victim-less crime. Often when the men drank, the women and children suffered. You have to understand, this was a time when women had very very few rights. It was very hard to get a divorce, they couldn't testify in court, bring charges on somebody, own property- It was very hard to be on your own if you were a woman. You basically had to have a man in your life. This was very harmful because it basically gave the man the right to beat and rape you, along with your children. So at that time, drinking was not a victim-less crime- There were victims. Very real victim. It's not like today where the woman can divorce and get a job or help by some public or private assistance programs. And that were the push for banning alcohol came from- Women.
Organizations such as the Women's Christian Temperance Movement pushed for prohibition. More than it was a push against alcohol, it was a women's rights movement. What they were saying more than we have a problem with you having fun and drinking or the morality of drinking- They were saying alcohol is destroying women's and children's lives. This is what we often don't think about when talking about Prohibition. Of course there are other factors.
At the time, there were talks of banning liquor, and not beer. This created a game between distillers and brewers. Many of the brewers went around trying to shut down the distillers and make liquor illegal so everyone would drink beer, and vice versa. Just like today where beer companies spend enormous amounts of money trying to keep marijuana illegal. Ironically, when Prohibition does come around, the brewers got shut down too, but that wasn't the plan. There is also elements of racism, where drinking was associated with immigrants- specifically the Germans and the Irish- So maybe I should say ethnic ism. The truth is Americans that were here for generations probably drank as much as these immigrants. Just like today where drug use among white are higher, but the stereotype is that blacks and Hispanics use marijuana more. So it was very similar to today- The family that was here since the Mayflower days gets just as drunk as the newly migrated immigrants but the anger is taken out on the immigrants. There also was a religious angle. Many found that drinking excessively was a problem in terms of religion. And then there's one more issue that isn't talked about often- Taxation.
By the turn of the century, Progressives wanted a more progressive taxation system. At that time, the single largest source of revenue was the tax on alcohol, interesting. The income tax on the pre-prohibition era was the alcohol tax. You think back to the whiskey rebellion with Alexander Hamilton. Alcohol tax was a regressive tax because wealthy people payed a much smaller percent of tax on their income than poorer people. So the progressives of the time wanted the wealthy to pay as much as the poor in form of a income tax. So progressive saw prohibition as a way of creating an income tax. So while most people think of Prohibition as a ban on alcohol, it was also a push for a more progressive taxation system. This often split the country into wet republican and dry republicans, and wet democrats and dry democrats. So we have women's and children's rights advocates, brewers and distillers, taxation issues, racism, and religious elements. So when we enter WWI, it almost turns patriotic to oppose beer, because many of the Germans are fighting for it, and seen as a large consumer of it. So many people will join the Prohibition movement because we are fighting the Germans during the war. That is really the kicker that pushes Prohibition over the top.
Prohibition was more popular in the south, in rural places, than in the North- more urban. When the 18th Amendment is passed, a famous quote was said: "The reign of tears is over, the slums will only be a memory, we will turn our prisons into factories and jails into storehouses and corn cribs, men will walk upright now, women will smile, and the children will laugh- Hell will forever be forgotten". Now that all seems funny and pie in the sky-ish. But listen to all the problems they associate with alcohol abuse. It wasn't about a moral issue- It was about the victims of alcohol and the nation as a whole, both economically and in terms of productivity. It's also funny because today we argue that prisons will no longer be overloaded if we legalize marijuana, the opposite of then- to make alcohol illegal-- Kind of ironic. Even during Prohibition, I should mention- withing two or three years you could buy a prescription of alcohol from you doctor and go home and drink it- Much like medical marijuana today. I should also mention that during that time, the rich weren't really affected by Prohibition as much because they had stock piled liquor and beer- You have to remember- It was legal to drink it, just not sell it or buy it. The President at the time openly drank alcohol in the White House because he has it stock piled.
I know many people will argue that Prohibition created organized crime- But I think that was bigger in our imagination than it was in real life. Perhaps a bigger issue, I know this is often talked about when discussing legalizing marijuana, once you make it it illegal, you deregulate it. When alcohol was deregulated and made illegal, speakeasies popped up everywhere and women and children often went there to drink and get wasted. With marijuana being illegal, young children can easily access marijuana- Just like they did in speakeasies. So what you have is women and children drinking at these places in an illegal way, where they never did before. Just like with marijuana, if it was legalized, children wouldn't be able to buy it if they were underage- this is considering that we would only be able to buy it at regulated dispensaries.
So where did Prohibition go? I think many people think that it was a stupid idea in the first place and we undid it, and because how can you legislate morality- But that can't be right, because we have made all these other drugs illegal, so it's not that we have a problem legislating morality- Something more specific had to happen to kill Prohibition as an issue. What happened was women's rights and the welfare state. Ultimately it was about women;s rights and what we do with the poorest people of society. Once a woman can leave her husband, and once a woman can have real career options, and once a poor person can get help from the government and is not entirely dependent on a man, a husband or father in this case, then there is no longer a need for Prohibition. Now that we live in a world where a woman can have a career and be self sufficient, while she might marry a man, she can also leave him without being destroyed personally and economically. That's why there is no more real talk about Prohibition. At the end of the day, it was never about morality, it was about women and children's rights. It was about women's rights and about whether the government should step in and help the poorest of out society. Many people think Prohibition lost. It didn't lose, it won. What it wanted was a better life for women and children, and it got just that- so don't laugh too hard at those Prohibitionists.
Another thing that came out of Prohibition was the special interest group. Not my favorite thing to come out, but it did. The Women's Christian Temperance Movement and the Anti-Saloon League combined to create a special interest group. They were a high pressure group that organized many people across the country. They had an iron grip in a ton of congressional districts across America, where if you made them mad, you had no chance of winning election- Kind of like the NRA today- both high pressure special interest group but with different issues but same tactics.
So maybe next time you're thinking about Prohibition or talking about it with somebody- maybe you can talk about it a little differently now, because I think most people don't understand it. Ask yourself this- Was the people arguing for prohibition of alcohol completely wrong for the reasons they were arguing? And did they win? Because I think they won.
*** I bolded some excepts above because I know it is a long read, but maybe some of the lines might catch their eye and have them read this long post (I know sorry) so they can learn a little more about Prohibition- Being that this is a forum on a site based on marijuana, where marijuana is illegal in most of the countries that they are from.***
So What do you all think? And do you think there has to be an issue attached to marijuana that might help the push to legalize it? One attached issue that we have is the medical aspect. Medical marijuana has helped in many states. What's another issue that might help? Do you think we need another issue, or just push to legalize it as a moral issue or another reason? Do you think that maybe we should use the reason of the amount of people being locked up every year to argue to legalize? I like that one- Maybe it is because I was on that side of the fence not too long ago. Either way, the number are astounding. And the racial aspect. So many more minorities are arrested per year despite the numbers being weighted against them- meaning drug use among whites out weighs blacks, according to most studies.
