Proper way to flush in hydroponics?

Tmac4302 · Mar 16, 2012

AWnox said:
IMO flushing for 7-10 days in a hydroponic grow (specially a Waterfarm) unnecessarily starves the plant. A Waterfarm specially is a recirculating system that constantly refreshes and balances nutrient solution every few minutes (even less if you have a powerful pump). This provides the roots with a constant supply of fresh nutrient and by the time she's ready to harvest she has grown accustomed to drinking and replenishing her solution faster than a normal soil grow. For me by week 8 (Indica dom strains) most of the time she drinks close to a gallon a day, sometimes I've seen more; meaning that she replenishes and/or circulates fresh nutrient solution every day; meaning letting her starve for a week is really unnecessary. I just flush the Waterfarm 2-3 days before harvest with ph'ed water and molasses then let her die in the dark for 36 hours then chop chop. Those extra days that everyone is starving their plants would and could be used for her to feed a bit more and produce more buds. Anyway that's my 2 cents and my personal preference, take it as you may.

Well, at the time the plant is finishing up, the energy of the plant isn't going towards flower production as it is resin production. That's why we stop high PK bloom boosters at like week 5 or 6 (8-9 week finishing time). At this point in the plants life, there isn't any need for calyxial growth, but maturation of growth already established. This is why you see resin glands turn from clear to cloudy to amber. Now, in the leaves there are nutrients already stored up. When there is no nutrients in the reservoir for the roots to absorb, the plant must get it from somewhere or else all metabolic exchange and any further life in that plant will 100% die. It then eats the remaining nutrients in the leaves to keep itself alive and to resin production. It technically isn't starving. That is a very big misconception. It's just reallocating nutrients already built up in its system and starts to cannibalize. I, and many other growers like Subcool, like to see cannibalization in our plants. We believe that we get better tasting flowers in the end through the plant eating natural carbohydrates and use natural enzymes to break those down. Not to mention that it allows some of the chlorophyll to die off so the true color of the plant comes out (it's just green b/c of chlorophyll). I don't see any loss of growth or resin production stopping nutrients at week 7 out of 8, flushing for 6-12 hours with a flushing agent, and running plain water for a week before putting the plant into darkness.

lvtokerr · Mar 16, 2012

AWnox said:
IMO flushing for 7-10 days in a hydroponic grow (specially a Waterfarm) unnecessarily starves the plant. A Waterfarm specially is a recirculating system that constantly refreshes and balances nutrient solution every few minutes (even less if you have a powerful pump). This provides the roots with a constant supply of fresh nutrient and by the time she's ready to harvest she has grown accustomed to drinking and replenishing her solution faster than a normal soil grow. For me by week 8 (Indica dom strains) most of the time she drinks close to a gallon a day, sometimes I've seen more; meaning that she replenishes and/or circulates fresh nutrient solution every day; meaning letting her starve for a week is really unnecessary. I just flush the Waterfarm 2-3 days before harvest with ph'ed water and molasses then let her die in the dark for 36 hours then chop chop. Those extra days that everyone is starving their plants would and could be used for her to feed a bit more and produce more buds. Anyway that's my 2 cents and my personal preference, take it as you may.

x2

I just add ro water when I want to start my week of flushing. I don't like starving my fat mamas.

AWnox · Mar 16, 2012

Tmac4302 said:
Well, at the time the plant is finishing up, the energy of the plant isn't going towards flower production as it is resin production. That's why we stop high PK bloom boosters at like week 5 or 6 (8-9 week finishing time). At this point in the plants life, there isn't any need for calyxial growth, but maturation of growth already established. This is why you see resin glands turn from clear to cloudy to amber. Now, in the leaves there are nutrients already stored up. When there is no nutrients in the reservoir for the roots to absorb, the plant must get it from somewhere or else all metabolic exchange and any further life in that plant will 100% die. It then eats the remaining nutrients in the leaves to keep itself alive and to resin production. It technically isn't starving. That is a very big misconception. It's just reallocating nutrients already built up in its system and starts to cannibalize. I, and many other growers like Subcool, like to see cannibalization in our plants. We believe that we get better tasting flowers in the end through the plant eating natural carbohydrates and use natural enzymes to break those down. Not to mention that it allows some of the chlorophyll to die off so the true color of the plant comes out (it's just green b/c of chlorophyll). I don't see any loss of growth or resin production stopping nutrients at week 7 out of 8, flushing for 6-12 hours with a flushing agent, and running plain water for a week before putting the plant into darkness.

Very well put. Although IMO with a waterfarm specially the plant seems to use more nutrients faster than usual. For example if I put too much P or K I can see the ill effects literally hours after I pour it in the reservoir. For those 2-3 days before harvest she uses those "stored nutrient" but I think for a whole week or more in a waterfarm that's more time than the nutrients she has stored. It's just my opinion that at least in a waterfarm or any hydroponic medium flushing for more than 3-4 days is just wasting nutrient consumption that could be used to either further maturity or swell the calyx even more or produce more resin but to each it's own I suppose.

P.S. Taste is all about the curing and drying. I have never ever had a bad tasting or harsh tasting bud flushing just 2-3 days in the WF. I dry for a week and I cure the product at least 2 weeks.

Tmac4302 · Mar 16, 2012

If taste is all about curing and drying, why do you use molasses, sweeting agent, or any high carbo supplement?? There is something called a terpene and flavinoid profile to each plant. Those are the aromas and and taste that the plant produces. There are ways to increase the production of said terpene and flavinoid profiles to each plant through sweeteners and through high carbo supplements in late flowering. Yes, to preserve and to evolve the taste, THAT is in the art of drying and curing. But to say that what the plant ingests and how the plant ingests it has no causal effect on what we taste and smell, is simply ignorant. Why do you think organic medicine tastes and smells better? Because of those natural carbo's and naturally broken down nutrients by beneficial bacteria and those enzymatic process's. The same thing applies to the naturally broken down nutrients the plant has stored away in the fan leaves. If you still see green on the plant's leaves by the time you have "starved" the plant through 7-10 days of flushing and 3 days of darkness, then there is still nutrients in the leaves meaning that it still had plenty of nutrients to eat up. I do this with every harvest and every time come out with green leaves, with purples, blues, pinks, yellow, and orange leaves.

The water is the plants growing medium. Over time nutrient salt build up occurs, especially if your using salty nutes like AN, GH, ect. Minimally, I like flushing my reservoir so I get rid of that build up in the water and in the root zone. That's my main goal because I don't think anyone like smoking nutrients.

Homer13063 · Mar 30, 2012

Wow? I didn't know that there was so many different approaches to flushing. I have a Rubbermaid tote with 5 cola's in it. 60 days in. I use a 10-30-20 flower nutes and refilled it yesterday. I was curious how to flush a bubble grow and now I know. H20. I don't use "marijuana" fertilizers. They are way overpriced, and you are buying the label. Week 9 I will switch from 1800ppm to plain water for a week. I'll see how it goes...

Thanks ALL for the input!
:clap:

StinkBud · Mar 31, 2012

I've used flushing agents before and they work well. You can also run plain tap water with Botanicare Sweet added during the flush. It makes your buds taste and smell sweet.

It's actually better to run a very low PPM in your res during flushing. The small amount of nutrients help leach the plant of the salts.

How long do you flush? As long as it takes for the plant to turn yellow (or blue, purple, etc...)

legallyflying · Mar 31, 2012

I love how the OP says "I don't care if you think its necessary or not..I just want to know the proper way to flush"

Here is the straight dope.. myself, and many other experienced growers have done it both ways. If your not pushing nutrients overly hard, there is no real need to flush. Your nutrient amounts decrease towards the end anyways. You can flush for the last 3-4 days if your hell bent on it. You don't need flushing agents, a little sugar in the water will do the same thing in terms of removing nutrient ions from the medium. If your flushing h hydroponic system for a week or longer then you lack the understanding of the chemical processes behind the conversion of different nutrients and the curing process. These processes need a variety of different chemicals to function properly. Eliminating all nutrients doesn't help this process along. yeah, the leaves get all yellow and you think your getting rid of all the nitrogen etc but what your really doing is causing the collapse of the chemical processes for lack of certain ions.

Google around if you don't believe me. You will see find intelligent discussions on the subject. Those that go way beyond "I flush for 6 months dude, and my bud is soooo smoooth"

Tmac4302 · Apr 2, 2012

You've missed the entire point of my questioning flushing. I'm not asking if it works. I don't care if it's necessary. I don't even care if it helps. I'm only asking the instructions to using the flushing agent. I've seen the difference between no flushing and flushing with plain water. I have yet to see any type of personal results from a flushing agent. So, because of this, I decided to buy a flushing agent and see the difference for myself. I am a scientist. I love running trials for trivial information much like this topic provide. The only reason why I decided to make this thread was to ask if anyone have used it before and find a common dosage of it in the reservoir to aid in my research. Please don't be condescending and actually read the context of this thread before you comment and call the "OP" out on irrelevant information for this thread. Thanks!

Btw, I flush because Advanced Nutrients is salty shit. I have had multiple problems from even using 1/2 the concentration of recommended dose from salt ionization and build up. Causes lock out and pH spikes. A flushing agent can take days work, and turn it into 6 hours of work. Idk about you, but I'm big into running my garden at the most efficient manner. Like you said, eliminating nutrients doesn't aid the growing process. So I like reducing the amount of time my plant is without nutrients. Flushing agents can also help balance and maintain a steady pH if you ever have fluctuations, removing most negligible signs in the plant. Timing really can be everything. Sometimes, I just don't have the time to flush with water. Sorry dude. Explain to another thread why flushing is +/-. This thread is for people that are curious about flushing agents and how many ml/gal for x amount hours to run it for.

Tmac

^Slanty · Apr 2, 2012

I had a good laugh. You are "a scientist and love running trials for trivial information". If that is the case, then mix different ratio's and flush each plant differently. Why are you asking opinions, because if your statement is true, you may take into consideration what others have said, but you will come to your own conclusions regardless.

As for AN being salty shit..... don't over feed and it won't be salty shit. I have had WAY less salt buildup using AN compared to GH! As a "scientist", you should have figured this out by now.

Tmac4302 · Apr 3, 2012

^Slanty said:
I had a good laugh. You are "a scientist and love running trials for trivial information". If that is the case, then mix different ratio's and flush each plant differently. Why are you asking opinions, because if your statement is true, you may take into consideration what others have said, but you will come to your own conclusions regardless.

As for AN being salty shit..... don't over feed and it won't be salty shit. I have had WAY less salt buildup using AN compared to GH! As a "scientist", you should have figured this out by now.

What makes you think that I don't do that? I don't see any questions about the feeding regiment that I am providing for my plants. No one is asking me what type of nutrients i cycle through to run through. I do use various nutrient ratios as well as use different nutrient lines. I would consider myself a pretty diverse grower. I'm not saying I don't have things to learn and tweek/"perfect", but I am not ignorant or new to growing plants. If you would take to notice, my original intentions to this thread was only to ask about how much Final Phase was needed to add to a reservoir for how long. I only ask this question to help formulate my own conclusions for a flushing agent. If you've noticed, no-one has given me any cohesive answers and, as per to my last post, I have still formulated and made a cohesive understanding of Advanced Nutrients flushing agent, Final Phase.

Just because you have comparable evidence showing how GH is saltier than AN doesn't mean AN isn't salty shit. I ran it less than 2ml/l the whole grow and still had salt build up. That's at 1/2 the recommended dose. Any grower with enough experience with AN will tell you, it is a good nutrient line. A little on the pricey-er side of nutrients, but it's not like it's not worth it. It is salty and I believe that is something AN has to improve on. If they improve that, baller. Till then all I was asking about was how much ml/gal to use the flushing agent at. Thanks!

legallyflying · Apr 3, 2012

Jesus, what a dick. Actually any grower with enough experience will tell you that there are better nutrients than AN out there and they are MUCH cheaper. I don't know anyone with bigger grows (+10K watts) that uses AN. Either for soil, coco, or hydro.

And just as a little FYI... your original post asks "I just want to know the proper way to flush". and that is exactly the question that myself and other posters answered. I highly doubt your a scientist, as I am a professional biologist and most of my peers would research a product before just buying it. As for how to use it...try reading the label on the bottle..that is always a good start.

My point was that a little sugar water or very light nutrient flush will actually serve to remove excess salts better than straight tap water...or your flushing agent. Myself, and others..I think it was woodsmeneh? both did side by side tests flushing hydroton with plain water and flushing agents. The plain water actually resulted in a higher PPM of the runoff.

Just do everyone a favor and get off the high horse. I read your grow thread...You don't even have a PPM meter!? One plant under a 400 watt, yeah dude, your rocking it hard.

^Slanty · Apr 3, 2012

legallyflying said:
Jesus, what a dick. Actually any grower with enough experience will tell you that there are better nutrients than AN out there and they are MUCH cheaper. I don't know anyone with bigger grows (+10K watts) that uses AN. Either for soil, coco, or hydro.

And just as a little FYI... your original post asks "I just want to know the proper way to flush". and that is exactly the question that myself and other posters answered. I highly doubt your a scientist, as I am a professional biologist and most of my peers would research a product before just buying it. As for how to use it...try reading the label on the bottle..that is always a good start.

My point was that a little sugar water or very light nutrient flush will actually serve to remove excess salts better than straight tap water...or your flushing agent. Myself, and others..I think it was woodsmeneh? both did side by side tests flushing hydroton with plain water and flushing agents. The plain water actually resulted in a higher PPM of the runoff.

Just do everyone a favor and get off the high horse. I read your grow thread...You don't even have a PPM meter!? One plant under a 400 watt, yeah dude, your rocking it hard.

+1! Where the fuck is the damn LIKE BUTTON!!!! :clap:

Warlock1369 · Apr 3, 2012

Come on guys!!! Everyone knows if you grow 1plant all the way to harvest your a master grower. Hell after looking at his jernal 11oz wet dryer to 5.?. That's a 50% loss. Maybe we should ask him how to get that number. I still can only get around 30%. That makes me look like a noob with my 2.5-4lb grows. :roll:

lol

Ya cant teach then all and sure as hell can't help a person that knows he's rite.

legallyflying · Apr 3, 2012

Lol. I wonder what he is lighting his bowls with? A blow torch perhaps

You try and help someone and they get all poopy pants .

drgreentm · Apr 4, 2012

Warlock1369 said:
Come on guys!!! Everyone knows if you grow 1plant all the way to harvest your a master grower. Hell after looking at his jernal 11oz wet dryer to 5.?. That's a 50% loss. Maybe we should ask him how to get that number. I still can only get around 30%. That makes me look like a noob with my 2.5-4lb grows. lol

Ya cant teach then all and sure as hell can't help a person that knows he's rite.

lol i saw his final post in his thread.DUDE YOUR SMOKING WET NUG!!!!

phuzy · Apr 4, 2012

Tmac4302 said:
You've missed the entire point of my questioning flushing. I'm not asking if it works. I don't care if it's necessary. I don't even care if it helps. I'm only asking the instructions to using the flushing agent. I've seen the difference between no flushing and flushing with plain water. I have yet to see any type of personal results from a flushing agent. So, because of this, I decided to buy a flushing agent and see the difference for myself. I am a scientist. I love running trials for trivial information much like this topic provide. The only reason why I decided to make this thread was to ask if anyone have used it before and find a common dosage of it in the reservoir to aid in my research. Please don't be condescending and actually read the context of this thread before you comment and call the "OP" out on irrelevant information for this thread. Thanks!

Btw, I flush because Advanced Nutrients is salty shit. I have had multiple problems from even using 1/2 the concentration of recommended dose from salt ionization and build up. Causes lock out and pH spikes. A flushing agent can take days work, and turn it into 6 hours of work. Idk about you, but I'm big into running my garden at the most efficient manner. Like you said, eliminating nutrients doesn't aid the growing process. So I like reducing the amount of time my plant is without nutrients. Flushing agents can also help balance and maintain a steady pH if you ever have fluctuations, removing most negligible signs in the plant. Timing really can be everything. Sometimes, I just don't have the time to flush with water. Sorry dude. Explain to another thread why flushing is +/-. This thread is for people that are curious about flushing agents and how many ml/gal for x amount hours to run it for.

Tmac

LOl, If this is all you were looking for, wouldn't the directions on the bottle be enough?

^Slanty · Apr 4, 2012

phuzy said:
LOl, If this is all you were looking for, wouldn't the directions on the bottle be enough?

That is kind of what I said. Seeming how he is the "scientist", I figured that would be a good place to start and then feed more/less to other plants and see what works best. IMO though, you will never get the same results even running the same mixture with 2 different plants. Root mass and structure come into play and they are never identical between plants.

As most companies recommend way more than what is necessary, I would have personally mixed 1 at what they said and another at 1/2 of what they said. Compared initial PPM's( and then "flushed" ppms on each plant noting the difference) This is the only "scientific" way to go about it and test how much is really necessary.

Regardless, there are better ways to go about it than buying these so called "flushing agents". I'll keep my $ and keep doing it the way that produces killer smoke every time.

bird mcbride · Apr 4, 2012

After all the experiments just chop, remove fan leaves and vase the selected plants in RO water for the last 24hr shift removing them just when the hps comes on. Take care the plants don't go dry dyring this cycle especially when the hps is on. Vase, 12hr/hps, 12hr darkness, remove trim and hang.

MonkE · Apr 4, 2012

I have a question for the scientist.
Where are these salts building up in your system that they need flushing?

MonkE · Apr 4, 2012

legallyflying said:
Lol. I wonder what he is lighting his bowls with? A blow torch perhaps

You try and help someone and they get all poopy pants .

Haha... I used to light my bowls with a shop torch..
After about a month of that my lungs started to hurt and I couldn't get high anymore so I stopped

Proper way to flush in hydroponics?

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