Prove to you There's a God?

sen.c

sen.c

Active Member
The answer you will get (and have gotten) is simple, we are not meant to know the mind of god. This is the same thing as saying, be satisfied with ignorance and move on.
Click to expand...
No what it means is that who are you to question the creator and try and understand his infinite mind. Let's say for the sake of conversation since I know you don't believe in God but let's say he does exsist. Do you think for a second that you would be able to have an inkling of understanding as to the knowledge he has to create all the complex systems he has created?

With that being said I am still trying to figure out what makes your congregated multiple sources of weapons-grade insight and reality right and anyone who thinks any different than you wrong.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
No what it means is that who are you to question the creator and try and understand his infinite mind. Let's say for the sake of conversation since I know you don't believe in God but let's say he does exsist. Do you think for a second that you would be able to have an inkling of understanding as to the knowledge he has to create all the complex systems he has created?

With that being said I am still trying to figure out what makes your congregated multiple sources of weapons-grade insight and reality right and anyone who thinks any different than you wrong.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't an omnipotent being be able to explain existence to a human being in a way he could understand it?
 
sen.c

sen.c

Active Member
Why do you attribute it to God though? (more specifically, your god)
Click to expand...
In this situation, to give him the glory he deserves and because he is the one true and living God. Let me guess you would attribute it to science although
science can't begin to explain it but maybe they will in the future so I will go ahead and give them credit for it anyway.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
In this situation, to give him the glory he deserves and because he is the one true and living God. Let me guess you would attribute it to science although
science can't begin to explain it but maybe they will in the future so I will go ahead and give them credit for it anyway.
Click to expand...
You simply saying "It must be a divine miracle!" is inconsistent with reality. Why didn't God step in and save the thousands from hurricanes killed each year? Why didn't he step in and save the neighborhood boy who was struck by a car? You giving credit to your god is no more valid than me saying "by the power of Zues, he's healed!".

Nothing connecting 'miracle' - 'God'.

I wouldn't attribute it to anything, simply mark it up as 'unknown' for the time being, be grateful the guy survived and keep studying it and trying to figure it out. Why give something credit that doesn't deserve it? It only helps in moving us backwards.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence


Ones we see most often...

ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist's counterargument]
(3) Yes he does.
(4) [Atheist's counterargument]
(5) Yes he does!
(6) [Atheist's counterargument]
(7) YES HE DOES!!!
(8 ) [Atheist gives up and goes home.]
(9) Therefore, God exists.

PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY
(1) [Christian asks "stumper" question.]
(2) [Atheist answers question.]
(3) [A lapse of time]
(4) [Christian repeats question.]
(5) [Atheist repeats answer.]
(6) [A lapse of time]
(7) [Christian repeats question.]
(8 ) [Atheist repeats answer.]
(9) [A lapse of time]
(10) [Atheist leaves in frustration.]
(11) Atheist, you never answered my question.
(12) Therefore, God exists.
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
man you are the ignorant one for thinking nothing is possible without science telling you it is,

[video=youtube;4j5h9IgwYgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5h9IgwYgs[/video]


[video=youtube;bVvdbYKIXQw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=bVvdbYKIXQw[/video]

Padawanbater2 said:
Appeal to ignorance.
Click to expand...
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Justin00 said:
there is a few big parts of what you just typed that you have fully analyzed yet, i'll give you a few hints. in your post you are assuming that you are correct in all your judgments, more so than an all powerful crafter of the universe? you assume that since it dosn't make since to you then it must in fact have faults, either he is wrong or cruel in your example, but by what standards.....yours?

Is free choice of no importance to you? Would anything mean anything if you were not given the ability to make choices? If you came home and found your child with the gun unloaded and place in a case and the bleach taken to the laundry room and left on the shelf and the bear trap disarmed and packaged safely in your closet and your child making there self some lunch..... how would you feel then? =) Is it wrong in your opinion for "God" to give us that chance? I'm just saying that we often look at things from our limited perspective and never even try to see the bigger picture, granted how could we possible expect to understand the full picture as small and insignificant as we are in the universe?
Click to expand...
I read your post and really thought about what I posted to see if I did indeed miss something in my reasoning. I am confident that I haven't. I feel that my standards are the standards of all loving, caring human parents. I may be wrong, maybe some parents feel that they should let their small children choose their own fates with dangerous objects lying around. Though if that were the case, I don't think there would be a quarter of people that currently exist on this planet, as so many would die in early childhood. I recently saw a Nova episode where a bunch of 6 year old boys were shown a gun, understood that it was loaded (it wasn't, of course) and that if aimed and fired at someone they would be killed. Then the adult left the room. Less than 3 minutes later one of the boys had picked up the firearm and was waving it around, pointing it at playmates and had pulled the trigger several times. Your analogy of me being surprised if my son didn't kill himself and instead put the dangerous items in their places is flawed: I am not omniscient to know exactly what will happen, but god is. If god is omniscient then we have no free will, only the illusion of it, because upon creating us he knows exactly which 'choices' we will make. I don't have this luxury with my son. I value free will very much and believe that it actually exists, but this is because I don't believe in a god...
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
how does God knowing what we are going to do before we are born with the decisions we make as a human being?



tyler.durden said:
I read your post and really thought about what I posted to see if I did indeed miss something in my reasoning. I am confident that I haven't. I feel that my standards are the standards of all loving, caring human parents. I may be wrong, maybe some parents feel that they should let their small children choose their own fates with dangerous objects lying around. Though if that were the case, I don't think there would be a quarter of people that currently exist on this planet, as so many would die in early childhood. I recently saw a Nova episode where a bunch of 6 year old boys were shown a gun, understood that it was loaded (it wasn't, of course) and that if aimed and fired at someone they would be killed. Then the adult left the room. Less than 3 minutes later one of the boys had picked up the firearm and was waving it around, pointing it at playmates and had pulled the trigger several times. Your analogy of me being surprised if my son didn't kill himself and instead put the dangerous items in their places is flawed: I am not omniscient to know exactly what will happen, but god is. If god is omniscient then we have no free will, only the illusion of it, because upon creating us he knows exactly which 'choices' we will make. I don't have this luxury with my son. I value free will very much and believe that it actually exists, but this is because I don't believe in a god...
Click to expand...
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
I hear you, if you ever get a chance spark one and read Romans it really is a pretty good book of the Bible. The VK sounds like one I will have try for sure, is it a pretty good producer when topped then scrogged?
Click to expand...
I've read the bible several times all the way through when I was young, as I was brought up christian. I don't remember Romans specifically, but I will flip through it when I get to a family members house (I don't own a bible). VK is an amazing producer with fast flowering and pretty much foolproof to grow, I top them but I've never scrogged...
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
No what it means is that who are you to question the creator and try and understand his infinite mind. Let's say for the sake of conversation since I know you don't believe in God but let's say he does exsist. Do you think for a second that you would be able to have an inkling of understanding as to the knowledge he has to create all the complex systems he has created?
Click to expand...
yes

“I have met some highly intelligent believers, but history has no record to say that he knew or understood the mind of god. Yet this is precisely the qualification which the godly must claim—so modestly and so humbly—to possess. It is time to withdraw our 'respect' from such fantastic claims, all of them aimed at the exertion of power over other humans in the real and material world.”
― Christopher Hitchens

With that being said I am still trying to figure out what makes your congregated multiple sources of weapons-grade insight and reality right and anyone who thinks any different than you wrong.
Click to expand...
Strawman: being right is not my de facto position. I am sometimes right and sometimes wrong. When I am right, it is not by accident, it comes from hard consideration and endeavors to validate. When I think someone is wrong, I thoroughly explain why.

My location paraphrase is purposely absurd and meant to be self defeating as there is no way for a single person to congregate anywhere, and no way to congregate over more than one place at time, which makes it a statement that would suggest the opposite of insight.
 
karetwo

karetwo

Active Member
We are born into a mindstate where there is only 1 life for us individual beings, on this earth or ever. Religion believes this.

There has to be a god like, awesome infinite force that created us, our mind and everything else that we can conceivable thing of. life is too perfect.

As for the deaths on earth, the negativity, it has a purpose. To experience it. Because if those hurricanes didnt kill those people you would not have the mind state you have now, and would not be seeking closure. or answers.

I believe that our body is a biological physical shell for our soul, and the soul, would be our mind and thoughts, the non physical about us, and i believe that never dies, as for nothing could leave this creation we are in, because nothing could not be part of the creation because that too would be a creation. I beleive we reincarnate as a human until we learn our lesions and move on, as we did in our past stage of evolution as an animal.

We are infinite beings, as is everything in the creation, because the creation is one, and will always be... and always has.

Those are my thoughts. haha.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
Well science has it's valid points no doubt, but there will still be things it will never figure out. When a man diagnosed with terminal cancer so bad that he is given a couple weeks to live
and out of the blue his body that was infested with cancer is all of a sudden gone without ant sign all doctors can do is say i don't know. I would have to call that a miracle.
Click to expand...
There have been cases of cancer that have completely disappeared. Why then does god favor cancer victims, but COMPLETELY ignores the suffering of both paraplegics and amputees? god has NEVER EVER regrown limbs, or healed a single paraplegic. Why does he hate them so? If god ever decides to regrow human limbs, I'd be a lot closer to buying into miracles...
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
sen.c said:
I never stated that though.



Well science has it's valid points no doubt, but there will still be things it will never figure out. When a man diagnosed with terminal cancer so bad that he is given a couple weeks to live
and out of the blue his body that was infested with cancer is all of a sudden gone without ant sign all doctors can do is say i don't know. I would have to call that a miracle.
Click to expand...
You would have to call that an unknown, which your mind makes sense of by labeling a miracle. In the meantime no real indication of god has taken place. 'I can't explain...therefore credit god' is no more appropriate in this instance than when a hurricane kills a baby and someone says, 'I don't understand..therefore blame god'.

It is true that there will be some things science will never figure out, we will never reach omniscience. To apply that point to cancer remission is unfair. We may indeed understand why this happens one day, and it will probably be science that explains it, not religion. Science demands progress, religion prefers mystery. Despite science not being able to tell us everything, it is still the best system of deciphering reality we have, and forever destined to narrow the gaps in present knowledge. In addition to it being invalid to assign gaps in knowledge to god, there will eventually be fewer and fewer of those gaps to choose from, thanks to science.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
The answer you will get (and have gotten) is simple, we are not meant to know the mind of god. This is the same thing as saying, be satisfied with ignorance and move on.

It would seem being omniscient and omnipotent at the same time is impossible. If god decides to intervene and save a drowning child, he has always known he would make this choice, being omniscient. How then, could he change his mind and decide not to intervene? If he is all powerful, then he must be able to change his mind, but if he changes his mind then he was wrong about always knowing he would help. Does god then change the past and make so that he always knew he wouldn't help? If so then, being omniscient, he must have always known he would change his mind in the past. So it seems god can change his mind in the past, but not change his mind in the future, since he always knows the future state of his mind. So he can be either omnipotent or omniscient, but not both.
Click to expand...
This is the simplest way I've ever heard this impossibility stated:

Can omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change His future mind?
—Karen Owens
 
karetwo

karetwo

Active Member
maybe god made that happen to them so you could be thinking what your thinking now, and what ever reaction ever produced by something negative happening to anyone, and anyone else experiencing by observing or anything, maybe thats the purpose, experience. Some people are mortars to serve other people, like a victim of something, that being chose every experience before it was born as we all did, that being would be a catalyst for karma for the person harming him/her, thats how perfect the creation is, and how INFINITE.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
karetwo said:
maybe god made that happen to them so you could be thinking what your thinking now, and what ever reaction ever produced by something negative happening to anyone, and anyone else experiencing by observing or anything, maybe thats the purpose, experience. Some people are mortars to serve other people, like a victim of something, that being chose every experience before it was born as we all did, that being would be a catalyst for karma for the person harming him/her, thats how perfect the creation is, and how INFINITE.
Click to expand...
That's a lot of maybes. Without some empirical evidence to back anything up, Speculation is masturbation...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top