Pruning - When do you take all the leaves off?

jeffbelize said:

Uncle Ben...Stop wasting your time with these people!..They dont know any thing!

Click to expand...

Yep, flip me over on this fire and call me done.

UB

I don't really see why it's so hard to understand the SOG example. Dlively is just saying that there is no one answer. Even the most thick headed person should reasonably be able to recognize that there is a difference between trimming a single fan leaf and trimming all of the fan leaves. The plant numbers are completely immaterial because the most limiting factor in the indoor grow is the lighting. For example, Dlively cannot simply just go out and plant those same 64 plants in an indoor room measuring 100 x 100 feet with the same lighting and expect the same results. He must work within the footprint of the reflector, not too close to burn the leaves, and not so far away that the PAR values drop off and growth is diminished. The main benefit to increasing your plant numbers is to shorten veg time.

I transplanted my ladies into 3 gallon pots yesterday and broke out the Fiskars to do some trimming. I had never thinned the plants before but decided to do it and follow some new school advice. It was amazing how many bud sites were hiding behind fan leaves. On my colas, I trimmed off every other fan leaf from the bottom, so there are alternating leaves. The plants look better already and I can't wait to see the previously hidden bud sites begin to stretch up. I am in week 3 of 12/12 and week 2 of actual flowering.

Serapis said:

I transplanted my ladies into 3 gallon pots yesterday and broke out the Fiskars to do some trimming. I had never thinned the plants before but decided to do it and follow some new school advice. It was amazing how many bud sites were hiding behind fan leaves. On my colas, I trimmed off every other fan leaf from the bottom, so there are alternating leaves. The plants look better already and I can't wait to see the previously hidden bud sites begin to stretch up. I am in week 3 of 12/12 and week 2 of actual flowering.

Click to expand...

THAAATs a better way...i wouldent cut every other leaf as that seems like alot but i would defiantly cut the ones covering the buds unless there small one and whatevers dead i think thats the ONLY time to cut alot of leaves off

I took about 1/3 of the leaves off of each plant. most were from the bottom and in the center. I alternated leaves as I got higher and left the top 6" of the plant alone.

Uncle Ben said:

Ahhhhhhh, more chest beating. I can cherry pick photos too to make my case.

What's your point other than your insatiable need to argue against the laws of nature? Here are some indica dom plants with dark green, large photon collectors left intact as mama nature intended it to be. There have been many others posted here and over the years, you'll just have to search out my attachments, not that your mind isn't already made up. These were crammed into a small space without any side lighting.


View attachment 1201807View attachment 1201810View attachment 1201811View attachment 1201821View attachment 1201814



Last shot is a secondary harvest from one of the plants. You know the area, the bottom where no light reaches.



So you're removing the most efficient collector of photons, THE photosynthesis aficionale, and 3 weeks into bloom when the plant needs all the simple and complex carbos it can get until harvest! Gawd, this is too funny! 3 weeks eh? Not 1.5 or 6.25? Now that's some good ol' forum voodoo magic.... yess sah tis.

Being that this was erroneously posted in 'Advanced Techniques' by someone who doesn't understand what makes a plant tick (but has been sucked into inaccurate but trendy forum popular thought).....all I can say is it's typical Advanced Stupidity. Come on people, get away from cannabis forums for a while and get your fanny into some regular gardening forums where you might learn something bonafide. The basic lessons learned in a solid gardening forum just might be your shortcut to success.

UB
.

Click to expand...

YOU are the one arguing against proven facts placed in front of you. Just like the spouse being cheated on who denies it really happened despite having irrefutable evidence placed in front of them. You arent showing anyone anything with your pictures. Anyone can grow a large single plant. I showed an entire tray to further prove my point since YOU are the one that said my single plant picture wasnt proof enough. I can clearly see from your pics that you grow large plants with large colas. They look great but your yield sure isnt going to be that high grown like that. Looks EXACTLY how I used to grow before I tripled my yields. Nothing wrong with that but you can get much higher yields in your space if you actually listened instead of blasting everyone who grows differently then yourself. Looks like you have maybe 1 large cola for every four that I have and your cola pictures dont look any bigger despite your time wasted vegging them out to get the plants that large. I have almost no veg and NO wasted space in my grow. To each is own but I wasnt the one bashing the way you grow, remember that.

The reason for cutting at week three is because that is when the plant stops stretching and ends its last bit of vegetative state. At that point the leaves dont serve much purpose. There are tons of other leaves left on the plant just the large fan leaves are removed to get better light penetration and uncover about 75% of the hidden bud sites. My grows over the last year and even the few pictures I posted PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can get the biggest thickest colas with them removed at week 3. You act like I have some hidden agenda when in fact I am only trying to help people under stand and open their wn eyes instead of blindly listening to old mule headed old dogs like you.

Its under advanced techniques since even old schoolers like you cant wrap your head around new methods of growing. Perfect place for it seeing how 99% of board members new and advanced are misinformed about the removal of leaves. Science would never move forward if everyone thought as you do. Luckily most scientist are willing to explore other theories especially when given damn good proof.

Serapis said:

I took about 1/3 of the leaves off of each plant. most were from the bottom and in the center. I alternated leaves as I got higher and left the top 6" of the plant alone.

Click to expand...

Good for you , just try and see what works for your style of growing. I only remove a lot of them because of how many plants there are in the given space. Good for you for thinking on your own and drawing your own conclusion, hopefully others will be willing to explore as well.

Is anyone willing to do a side by side and post pictures? I think this will prove it once and for all. Same environment, same strain, same nutes, same everything except one is with the all fan leaves and one is without.

Honestly, my friend and I grow pretty much the same but he always got more than me in dry weight. Plants are LST'd, same nutes except for an additive or two, and I run more light than he does. I run 1000 watts with 4 plants and he runs 600 watts with 2 plants. He vegged under fluorescents and I vegged under a 600 watt mh. His plant was a little over 2 feet in flower after the stretch and mine was over 3 feet. We both do DWC in 5 gallon buckets and ran the same strain. He got almost 8 oz's with all the fan leaves removed and I only got 4.2 oz's with all the fan leaves on. The next time I grew the same strain but removed about half the fan leaves and got almost 6 oz's. On the my next on I'm removing all the fan leaves to see what happens.

Here's some pics of his plant (fan leaves removes) vs. my plant. Both are Purple Urkel and using House and Garden Aqua Flakes and House and Garden additives. I'm using all of the additives in the H&G line and he isn't. We are both using Great White. Both in 5 gallon DWC. I use 1000 watts over 4 plants and he uses 600 watts over 2 plants. He got almost 8 oz's and I only got 4.2 oz's.

His plant



My plant

More irrefutable proof, plants like to be pruned.

dlively11 said:

Wow you must be REALLY stoned for this to make sense to you.... I am posting what I grow, pay attention son. I get a lot more yield then you or your friend in the same space but somehow that is perceived by you as a negative ??? LOL When you or your friend start yielding over 8 lbs on a 4X8 tray then feel free to say something. Your math is very off dude what else can I say. Wasnt trying to start something with you but for you to actually say that nearly 2 grams per watt or over a quarter pound per SQ foot or over 4 lbs per 4X tray is average is a complete joke as is your very fuzzy math. Where are you getting that you or your friend is yielding as much let alone more ? Stoner math for the loss bro. You keep trying to make sense of it and keep coming up emtpy. Glad I dont post in here while stoned or I would look as bad as you do right now....



Just shy of 60 lbs per year on a single 4X8 tray with Chronic White Widow and you are actually trying to make that somehow look bad. Best laugh I have ever had on this board I must admit =)

Click to expand...

How about you grab yourself a calculator and let it do the math for you...You're saying that most SOG growers get 1 or 2 pounds per tray. That's 16-32 ounces right? Even using your high number, that's 32 ounces coming from 64 plants. That's 1/2 an ounce per plant.....You with me so far? Now isn't it more convenient to grow 12 plants in a NON-SOG setup averaging 2 1/2 ounces per plant and getting the same 32 ounces that you needed 64 plants to get? I gave you the example of the 1,000 plants example to show you that it's not all about grams per watt...

Now if you really paid attention, you'de know that I never said that your 2 grams per watt is average...I didn't knock that...What I've been saying is that you're so lost with your grams per watt logic that you're not taking into consideration everything else. You'de also know that I never said your grow isn't efficent or that you shouldn't take off fan leaves in your setup because leaving them on wouldn't work for you...All you're trying to do is draw attention to your claim that you're pulling 8 pounds a tray...

But whatever dude, you go pull your 8 pounds a tray, or your 2 grams per watt or however you wanna measure your shit

OZUT said:

How about you grab yourself a calculator and let it do the math for you...You're saying that most SOG growers get 1 or 2 pounds per tray. That's 16-32 ounces right? Even using your high number, that's 32 ounces coming from 64 plants. That's 1/2 an ounce per plant.....You with me so far? Now isn't it more convenient to grow 12 plants in a NON-SOG setup averaging 2 1/2 ounces per plant and getting the same 32 ounces that you needed 64 plants to get? I gave you the example of the 1,000 plants example to show you that it's not all about grams per watt...

Now if you really paid attention, you'de know that I never said that your 2 grams per watt is average...I didn't knock that...What I've been saying is that you're so lost with your grams per watt logic that you're not taking into consideration everything else. You'de also know that I never said your grow isn't efficent or that you shouldn't take off fan leaves in your setup because leaving them on wouldn't work for you...All you're trying to do is draw attention to your claim that you're pulling 8 pounds a tray...

But whatever dude, you go pull your 8 pounds a tray, or your 2 grams per watt or however you wanna measure your shit

Click to expand...

You know I was very clear from the start what my yields were so I really dont get what your problem is. I guess I could spell it out for you again;

30 grams per plant average

30 X 4 = 120 grams per SQ foot

64 X 120 = 1920 grams on one tray every 8 weeks

1920 grams = 8.5 lbs

You and your friend are pulling a LOT less then this.

You keep pestering me about the yields as if they werent that good when in fact they are extremely good even for people using CO2 which I dont.

What do you mean everything else ? I am growing a LOT more in my given space then you, your friend or 99% of other growers out there. That is called growing more efficiently any way you would like to slice it. I cant belive you are even trying to argue this fact......

What gives ?

OZUT, you are failing to understand that LIGHTING is the most limiting factor in most indoor grows. That is why basically everyone uses that as the benchmark.

OZUT said:

You're considering everything except the number of plants you're using. 3 pounds a light is fantastic, no doubt. 3 pounds from 64 plants is not that great. For instance, you said you're getting 2 pounds a light and you think that's great. You need 64 plants to get those 2 pounds. I get just over 2 pounds from 12 blue dreams under a single 1,000 watt light. Now you tell me which is more efficent? I run 12 lights. 9 are 1,000 and 3 are 600's. To style my grow like yours, I would need 768 plants flowering. Why would I do that, when I can pull the same weight with only 110-130 plants? I have a separate veg room that is constantly running and my flower room gets absolutely no down time. I won't even go into the work involved with caring for 768 plants. My point is, you can't just judge the grow by grams per watt. You must consider all the other elements including the number of plants you're using. The reason I gave you the 1,000 plants in a bedroom example is to show you that grams per watt is not the most accurate way to judge it. If I have 1,000 plants in a room with nothing more than (*8* 30 watt bulbs....that's 240 watts for 1000 plants. If every plant give me 1 lousy gram, then I would have 1,000 grams off of 240 watts which is 4.1 grams per watt. By your logic, that's a great grow, but it's not.


As for the 2nd part of your response, you just said what everyone has been saying on this thread. Removing the leaves is not necessary. What everyone else isn't getting is that you're talking about a SOG grow and everyone else is talking about a regular grow. I also agree with you that most people just quote books and of all the people that say the "leaf pickers" are just following baseless forum theories, that just as many people are following the "non leaf pickers" without really understanding shit about the subject.

Click to expand...

Well right here you said it isnt great. Also if someone was actually getting over 2 lbs with 240 watts of CFLs that would be great but it isnt going to happen. Look I think you and I werent understanding each other perhaps as I can see you havent been flat out bashing like others have. Yes it is more of a PITA doing 6 plants a light and I miss the ease of growing 12-16 plants in that space. The only reason I do it is becuase I am able to get a much higher yield which was the point of this discussion. Cutting ;leaves helps on this type of grow maybe not others.

Peace ?

I just read this article on cannagraphic..good read. Defoliation-Hi-Yield Technique http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=174163

Civil.Dis0bedience said:

I just read this article on cannagraphic..good read. Defoliation-Hi-Yield Technique http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=174163

Click to expand...

Good find. I'll post my results in there as well. Its amazing how people can be so closed minded even when it comes to growing pot.

Every time i see an experiment being done it seems the de-leafing is having great results. I'm dont know much about plants, how they grow, what exactly their leaves do ect ect. But you cant argue with results. I have 12 plants right now almost 2 months into veg. I'll pluck the majority of leaves off 6 and leave sex. Tell you how they look when they go into flower in a few weeks.

leave 6 ^ (so fuckinn high)...side note..i want fuckinn BLUE DREAM seeds SOO bad

Isnt the answer to this question:

Harvest

canefan said:

Is it just me or do other notice this common theme? What the hell is the government school system teaching today? The amount of ignorance, not to be confused with stupidity, that appears in some of these forums is amazing. It appears that today the students are not even taught the most basic biology in school today, nor taught how to research a subject. One more thing and I will get off my rant, why do these people that have "heard" or "from my test results" never tell or show us their results or where they heard it?
For the people that truly believe there is no difference in pulling leaves or leaving the plant to produce what nature engineered where are the results or pictures showing side by side comparisons to support a claim that totally goes against the laws of nature. Granted marijuana is an amazing plant but it cannot even make up energy out of thin air to produce a bigger bud. For the believers there is no difference and that by removing the leaves the plant will direct its remaining energies to producing bigger buds. Here is an article done by Texas about molasses, in it the study shows where the sugars the plant takes up from its roots go to a plant. The first place is not the buds it is the leaves. If you pull the leaves the plant will redirect it sugars and other nutes to produce new leaves.
IMHO most growers need to spend some quality time reading not only forums to learn, but more importantly learn how to research biology. Google can be your friend, so can a high school or college biology book.
Sorry for the rant but I feel better and I didn't even berate anyone. Happy Growing

Click to expand...

u should get a lab coat and start a youtube series where u can teach everyone basic biology and the CORRECT way to cultivate.

dlively11 said:

Good find. I'll post my results in there as well. Its amazing how people can be so closed minded even when it comes to growing pot.

Click to expand...

Many people mistake observation and data as supporting a conclusion when there are other factors which could be responsible for the observed phenomenon and data. It's a correlation/causation mistake.

Like I said before, over my many years of posting at cannabis forums, I have yet to see anything remotely valid when it comes to a bonafide empirical study using a control group, proper standarized testing techniques, proper methods, etc. If it's a legitimate, non-partisan, non-agenda based study done by say.....a university, I'll buy into it. But, it's more like seeing what you choose to see, expecting results that you want, being suckered in by anecdotal evidence, parroting (erroneous) popular opinion and such.

IC Mag is just another cannabis forum with a huge share of marijuana nerds and noobs.

UB