Quantum Board short/live circuit

Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Has anyone had any issues with QBs shorting out or going live when attached to the Slate 2 or other supplied heatsinks?

I ordered 2x QB324/Slate 2 combos (4x QB324 and 4x Slate 2 heatsinks total), however I only got half my order to begin with.

The first part of the order arrived with a set of matching black button-head screws to attach the boards to the heatsinks. But when the other half of the order arrived, it came with silver nail-head screws - see image below:

IMG_0104.JPG

HLG's website says to use washers with these combos. But when I emailed them to clarify - as I had two different sets of screws - they replied:
You don't need the washers with the Slate 2 singles. We switched screws. Both are fine and no washers needed with your kits.
Click to expand...
Shortly followed by another email which said:
Use the silver screws for QB 324
Click to expand...
When I replied I only had enough silver screws for half the order, they said:
Please use both.
Click to expand...
So here's the issue - and if you're wondering why I'm posting here, it's because I haven't had a reply from HLG.

When I test-fitted the boards to the heatsinks, I removed the black button-head screws and noticed they had removed some of the insulation underneath. Looking through a 10x loupe, I noticed the screws had dug into the copper matrix below.

The silver nail-head screws fit inside the matrix - hence no worries about shorting. The black screws are wide enough to overlap the matrix. I was told NOT to use washers with these.

The boards are assembled, and I have tested them with my multi-meter and there is no shorting at this stage. However, I haven't powered them up yet and am concerned that, once hot, the boards will expand and possibly cause a short - or worse, a live frame.

My options at this stage are to dismantle, epoxy the mattrix, then reassemble using third-party nailhead screws.

But I'm particularly annoyed that I specifically emailed HLG about this issue and was told it was OK.

Has anyone out there had a similar problem and how did you remedy it? Thanks.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I've powered them up and everything appears to be OK. I might replace those screws anyway, just to be safe.

On a side note, the QB324s do have a nice spectrum - very similar red-yellow to HPS (to the human eye, at least).
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
Has anyone had any issues with QBs shorting out or going live when attached to the Slate 2 or other supplied heatsinks?

I ordered 2x QB324/Slate 2 combos (4x QB324 and 4x Slate 2 heatsinks total), however I only got half my order to begin with.

The first part of the order arrived with a set of matching black button-head screws to attach the boards to the heatsinks. But when the other half of the order arrived, it came with silver nail-head screws - see image below:

View attachment 4159407

HLG's website says to use washers with these combos. But when I emailed them to clarify - as I had two different sets of screws - they replied:


Shortly followed by another email which said:


When I replied I only had enough silver screws for half the order, they said:


So here's the issue - and if you're wondering why I'm posting here, it's because I haven't had a reply from HLG.

When I test-fitted the boards to the heatsinks, I removed the black button-head screws and noticed they had removed some of the insulation underneath. Looking through a 10x loupe, I noticed the screws had dug into the copper matrix below.

The silver nail-head screws fit inside the matrix - hence no worries about shorting. The black screws are wide enough to overlap the matrix. I was told NOT to use washers with these.

The boards are assembled, and I have tested them with my multi-meter and there is no shorting at this stage. However, I haven't powered them up yet and am concerned that, once hot, the boards will expand and possibly cause a short - or worse, a live frame.

My options at this stage are to dismantle, epoxy the mattrix, then reassemble using third-party nailhead screws.

But I'm particularly annoyed that I specifically emailed HLG about this issue and was told it was OK.

Has anyone out there had a similar problem and how did you remedy it? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Email us or pm me your order number and we will send out some nylon washers.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
OK, so one of the boards - as suspected - shorted out after limited use.

Also, I'm now being told by HLG to source my own washers. No big deal - apart from the fact HLG sent the wrong screws . . . then assured me I didn't need to use washers with them . . . then said I needed to source different screws . . . then said they would send out nylon washers . . . then asked me to source the washers myself . . .

Of course, they did offer to pay for them, but it certainly doesn't instill confidence in me wanting to deal with them again.

I was looking at ordering another dozen or so of these boards if things worked out, as well as posting up the results of a commercial grow.

Am I the only one who has had trouble with these Quantum boards?
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
nfhiggs said:
Just get some fiber or nylon insulative washers just to be on the safe side.
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I looked, couldn't find them locally, had the boards up and running, but will admit it is clearly my own fault for ignoring my gut instincts - especially after starting this thread.

However, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the company that sells the boards - and they have sold a lot of them, I'm sure - to send out the correct screws, and to offer the correct advice when asked. It's not the expense, it's the fucking around that I'm unhappy with. But I will wear the blame, source my own washers off eBay or somewhere, and try to fix things for the guy I built them for.

You live and learn. My bad.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
I looked, couldn't find them locally, had the boards up and running, but will admit it is clearly my own fault for ignoring my gut instincts - especially after starting this thread.

However, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the company that sells the boards - and they have sold a lot of them, I'm sure - to send out the correct screws, and to offer the correct advice when asked. It's not the expense, it's the fucking around that I'm unhappy with. But I will wear the blame, source my own washers off eBay or somewhere, and try to fix things for the guy I built them for.

You live and learn. My bad.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that! I've read most of the QB related threads but that's the first time I read about this issues.

For plastic washers try e3ay..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M3-M3-5-M4-M5-M5-8-M6-M8-M20-Soft-Gasket-Nylon-Plastic-Insulation-Flat-Washers/231778410541?hash=item35f711e02d:m:mmuC0iGKQNI1QR7zzr5puXA&var=531040676656&_sacat=0&_nkw=M4+plastic+washers&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
 
nfhiggs

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I'm just going to remove the black button-head screws altogether and use some nail-head screws I bought which should fit inside the matrix. I'll epoxy any uncovered matrix. I'm just annoyed at being given the wrong advice in the first place.

PC said:
Hi, I've received two QB324 Slate 2 combos (4x QB324, 4x Slate2), but noticed you included different screws in each box. I noticed on your website it says to use washers with the QB324s.

Is there any reason you sent me two different types of screws?

The black screws are button head - do they require washers?

What size washers do I use for the silver screws?

Do all 12 mounting holes require washers, or can I just use black screws on those closest the circuitry and silver screws without washers around the edges?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
HLG said:
Hello

You don't need the washers with the Slate 2 singles. We switched screws. Both are fine and no washers needed with your kits.
Click to expand...
HLG said:
Use the silver screws for QB 324
Click to expand...
PC said:
I don't have enough silver screws to use for 4x QB324s. There are 29 silver screws and 29 black button head screws, so I will have to use a mix.
Click to expand...
HLG said:
Please use both. We are here to support you if there are any issues.
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PC said:
Hi, I have trial fitted the QB324 panels to the Slate 2 heatsinks. I did not use washers on any of the screws, as advised below. However, when I removed the black button-head screws, I noticed they had dug into the copper matrix below - is this safe?!?

I am concerned now that the panels will short out on the heatsinks, and - worse still - create a live heatsink that would be dangerous.

Can you please advise before I wire the panels up?
Click to expand...
HLG said:
Your are correct. I would not advise you to touch the heatsink when powered on. You can use it.

Would you be able to buy M3 size washers or smaller screws from local store or online ?
We can pay you
Click to expand...
HLG said:
You are in Australia and sending 48 nylon washers cost a 100 times more in shipping than the cost of nylon washers. I encourage you to once again look for screws on local Australia websites or ebay. We will pay for those.
Click to expand...
This is a transcript of my interaction with HLG after they failed to deliver the full order. The first part of the order came with the offending black screws and boards that were slightly warped (not flat). I like the bit about even though a board might be live, as long as I don't touch it I "can use it". :roll:
 
S

sethimus

Well-Known Member
why not just glue them to the heatsinks? i glued all the stripes i use, using some heat resistant double sided tape.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice. I've got some other screws to try, so as soon as I get access to the boards I'll fix them with those. Right now they're at a secure grow op, so it will have to wait until early next week. I built these for someone else, so of course he's not exactly impressed either. :?
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hard to remove them in case of a defect. Strips are easier to remove when glue this way 'cause they are small. One could use a guitar string or something similar but with such a board.... I don't know if it works without causing more damage? I use heat conductive thermal tape myself (f-strips) it's available in up to 4" wide and is relatively cheap. But I would not use it with boards.

sethimus said:
why not just glue them to the heatsinks? i glued all the stripes i use, using some heat resistant double sided tape.
Click to expand...
 
kotobide

kotobide

Well-Known Member
Just received the slate x2 2x 288 kit still waiting on the driver.

Is there a need for nylon washers for the screws that came with the kit?
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I'm not really the person to ask . . . but neither is HLG, lol!

But seriously, the problem with the black button-head screws I was supplied is that they overlap the copper matrix (circuitry), which is under the white reflective insulation material that seals the circuitry and prevents the board from shorting or going live, giving you a nasty shock.

When you screw the Quantum Board to the heatsink using the black screws, the action of screwing them in can bite through the white insulation into the copper.

Even if it is not apparent at first - and the boards power up normally like mine did - the aluminium Quantum Board expands when it gets hot and this can force it against the screws, which bite harder into the board - leading to a short (which is what happened to my boards after a coupe of weeks of use).

The silver nail-head screws fit inside the matrix, so when you screw them to the board, the heads of the screws are small enough so they don't touch the surrounding copper matrix no matter how hard they bite.

You need to screw the QBs into the heat sinks tightly so that they have maximum contact with the heat sinks to conduct heat away. If the board is warped, or not in contact with the heat sink properly, then the heatsinks can't do their job efficiently and you get hot-spots on the board.

But back to your question . . .

I don't have any QB288s (I had the QB324s), so I don't know how much clearance there is around each mounting hole.

If there is enough clearance, you can use screws with smaller heads that won't bite into the matrix. If not, you need to use nylon washers to prevent the screws eating into the boards.

HLG does state this on their website, but fails to mention the washers need to be nylon - because metal washers can also bite into the copper matrix.

And I'm afraid you can ask HLG what to do, but they don't seem to know what they're talking about - at least in my case - and shouldn't be shipping the wrong screws with their boards anyway!

In all, I haven't had a great experience with them. But it was my first time using QBs - I've built five Samsung strip frames that are all still working perfectly after a year of heavy use - but now I know better.

Would I use QBs again? I don't know. They work well, but their customer service is lacking. Maybe its because I live overseas.

I'm sorry if I can't help you further. Best to ask people on RIU who have experience with the QB288s and know what they're talking about.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
It is pretty much conventional that there is a non-conductive ring like a little moat around drill holes.
It is built into most PCB design software... You will see it through the solder mask.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
ANC said:
It is pretty much conventional that there is a non-conductive ring like a little moat around drill holes.
It is built into most PCB design software... You will see it through the solder mask.
Click to expand...
i cant recall ever seeing traces near mounting holes on a board
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
There is often pads around the mounting holes with a ring followed by the hole in the center to strengthen it while isolating the screw.
 
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