Question about Hydrogen Peroxide!

Will it kill the beneficial bacteria in my soil, or just the anaerobic in a small amount?

Reason I ask if there's a huge consensus H202 kills beneficial bacteria in a soil medium, but I didn't know this before I added maybe a tiny pour (not sure the exact measurement, maybe 2-4tbsp - not much - to 20+ gallons of rain water in a barrel.) In other words, not much. I was worried about bad bacteria since it has been sitting for awhile. I'll also note, the water has been sitting for awhile after I added it too - does H202 ever 'break down?'

Will this really bug the beneficial micro life or is the tiny amount going to be negligible? I'm hoping the latter since it's a lot of good, fresh water which may go to waste. I've already used the water a few times already and have a fear my supersoil may be mad at me.

Hmmmm... without doing a gram stain on your soil it would be pure guesswork to say for certain, but I'm leaning towards the H2O2 killing indiscriminately. Personally, I would not worry about the bad bacteria; you can add a lot of good bacteria to the soil and they will overwhelm and eat the bad bacteria. One of the mods here has an excellent tea recipe but it would take a little research to find it.

do you know which mod so I can look for it?

If you had alot of bad bacteria in your water you might be in luck becasue the H2O2 would have broken down in the process of killing the bad bacteria. but it would only be guesswork to say one way or the other. How concentrated was the h2o2 that you added to your water?

I used it in my hydro system and I have to say at first I noticed improvement, buth then the plants looked sick and the roots had slime.. I killed all the good guys and when I stopped using it the bad guys came in numbers...

Thedillestpickle said:

do you know which mod so I can look for it?

If you had alot of bad bacteria in your water you might be in luck becasue the H2O2 would have broken down in the process of killing the bad bacteria. but it would only be guesswork to say one way or the other. How concentrated was the h2o2 that you added to your water?

Click to expand...

I found the actual post for you. https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html

It's the basic 3% stuff with stablizers in it, I'm hoping you're right and it decomposed or broke down the baddies in the original rain water. Again, the barrel was/is maybe about half full, so at least 20-30 gallons worth and a little pour of the H202 - not a whole lot was added. And I am using soil btw, I know it's great for hydroponics as I've done that before and used it. (I just didn't know it had negative effects as I've been reading towards organics and beneficial microbes.)

It would be pure guesswork I guess, part of me doesn't want to risk it, but at the same time like others have said i can always reinoculate the soil. I'm using the super soil recipe from subcool, so I figure it could be disastrous considering the point of the mix and all.

And I'd love to make teas, but I can't afford a nice pump at the moment! I was making batches for my tomatoes last summer but the little pump broke for no reason; and I think there needs to be a LOT of bubbles to really get the solution to ferment.

donutpunched said:

I used it in my hydro system and I have to say at first I noticed improvement, buth then the plants looked sick and the roots had slime.. I killed all the good guys and when I stopped using it the bad guys came in numbers...

Click to expand...

Hehe, with a vengeance! I hear that. Did your water temps get too high or something? Or using organics?

Herm, two thoughts.
1) Hydrogen peroxide does break down over time, but the time is hugely variable. It breaks down quite quickly in soil because there are two active catalytic principles there ... a: transition metal complexes, esp. of iron, and b; microorganisms with emzymes like catalase and superoxide dismutase.
2) I don't know if anyone has done a good study of the lethal concentrations of peroxide upon various soil microbes, pathogenic or beneficial. My hunch is that if a pocket of soil was spared killer concentrations, the microbes from that pocket will recolonize the soil.
Alternatively, just thermonuke the soil; then recolonize it in a controlled manner using aerated compost tea or similar!

While I have endless respect for Heisenberg tea, afaik it is a hydro-tailored solution. In soil with its extant microherd you can get by with simpler cheaper procedures, like diy tea from ordinary compost. Jmo. cn

Thehermaphroditemaker said:

Reason I ask if there's a huge consensus H202 kills beneficial bacteria in a soil medium, but I didn't know this before I added maybe a tiny pour (not sure the exact measurement, maybe 2-4tbsp - not much - to 20+ gallons of rain water in a barrel.) In other words, not much. I was worried about bad bacteria since it has been sitting for awhile. I'll also note, the water has been sitting for awhile after I added it too - does H202 ever 'break down?'

Click to expand...

H202 converts to H20 and liberates oxygen. Leave a 70% H202 bottle open for a week and it'll be almost-pure water. Adding such a small amount to a large quantity of water would probably have no affect on anything other than oxygenating the water.

Holy shit; I just noticed your avatar James!! Bwwwwaaahahahahahaha! SPLOOGE!

James87 said:

H202 converts to H20 and liberates oxygen. Leave a 70% H202 bottle open for a week and it'll be almost-pure water. Adding such a small amount to a large quantity of water would probably have no affect on anything other than oxygenating the water.

Click to expand...

OK, that's hopeful. I've read conflicting reports on this matter, but I will report I looked at the wikipedia page and most of my questions were answered (apologies for not being resourceful yet again o' forum , but the facts are in) :

a) It -doesn't- break down -unless- in the presence of (trace) minerals or compounds which act as a catalyst for decomposition such as the catalase and superoxide dismutase cannabineer pointed out to me.

AND/OR

b) Lights breaks it down, hence the brown bottles.

Another point to consider is the type of H202 being used. Most commercial brands have stabalizers such as my 3% in a bottle of brown doom for microbes:

wikipedia said:

Whereas hydrogen peroxide tends to decompose on its own (which is why, even after production, it is often necessary to add stabilisers to the commercial product when it is to be transported or stored for long periods), the nature of the catalyst can cause this decomposition to accelerate rapidly.

Click to expand...

cannabineer said:

1)Hydrogen peroxide does break down over time, but the time is hugely variable. It breaks down quite quickly in soil because there are two active catalytic principles there ... a: transition metal complexes, esp. of iron, and b; microorganisms with emzymes like catalase and superoxide dismutase.

Click to expand...

cannabineer said:

2) I don't know if anyone has done a good study of the lethal concentrations of peroxide upon various soil microbes, pathogenic or beneficial. My hunch is that if a pocket of soil was spared killer concentrations, the microbes from that pocket will recolonize the soil.

Click to expand...

Number 2 was my biggest concern as cannibineer poignantly addressed. I suppose the real mystery is within this quote in bold. What does it take to kill a microbe? Do they have resistance, do the strong survive? The answer evades me for now, but I had no idea how amazing this H202 stuff really is. From rockets to reservoirs and whitening teeth...oh my.

Also from wikipedia, anyone else venturing into this thread with questions about this:

Hydrogen peroxide decomposes (disproportionates) exothermically into water and oxygen gas spontaneously:
2 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]2[/SUB] → 2 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O + O[SUB]2[/SUB]This process is thermodynamically favorable. It has a ΔH[SUP]o[/SUP] of −98.2 kJ·mol[SUP]−1[/SUP] and a ΔS of 70.5 J·mol[SUP]−1[/SUP]·K[SUP]−1[/SUP]. The rate of decomposition is dependent on the temperature (cool environment slows down decomposition, therefore hydrogen peroxide is often stored in refrigerator) and concentration of the peroxide, as well as the pH and the presence of impurities and stabilizers. Hydrogen peroxide is incompatible with many substances that catalyse its decomposition, including most of the transition metals and their compounds. Common catalysts include manganese dioxide, silver, and platinum.[SUP][17][/SUP] The same reaction is catalysed by the enzyme catalase, found in the liver, whose main function in the body is the removal of toxic byproducts of metabolism and the reduction ofoxidative stress. The decomposition occurs more rapidly in alkali, so acid is often added as a stabilizer.
The liberation of oxygen and energy in the decomposition has dangerous side-effects. Spilling high concentrations of hydrogen peroxide on a flammable substance can cause an immediate fire, which is further fueled by the oxygen released by the decomposing hydrogen peroxide. High test peroxide, or HTP (also called high-strength peroxide) must be stored in a suitable,[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] vented container to prevent the buildup of oxygen gas, which would otherwise lead to the eventual rupture of the container.
In the presence of certain catalysts, such as Fe[SUP]2+[/SUP] or Ti[SUP]3+[/SUP], the decomposition may take a different path, with free radicals such as HO· (hydroxyl) and HOO· being formed. A combination of H[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]2[/SUB] and Fe[SUP]2+[/SUP] is known as Fenton's reagent.
A common concentration for hydrogen peroxide is 20-volume, which means that, when 1 volume of hydrogen peroxide is decomposed, it produces 20 volumes of oxygen. A 20-volume concentration of hydrogen peroxide is equivalent to 1.667 mol/dm[SUP]3[/SUP] (Molar solution) or about 6%

And:

Hydrogen peroxide should be stored in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area and away from any flammable or combustible substances.[SUP][45][/SUP] It should be stored in a container composed of non-reactive materials such as stainless steel or glass (other materials including some plastics and aluminium alloys may also be suitable).[SUP][46][/SUP] Because it breaks down quickly when exposed to light, it should be stored in an opaque container, and pharmaceutical formulations typically come in brown bottles that filter out light.[SUP][47]

[/SUP][SUP]

Hopefully, wikipedia has it right, but I'm no willing sheeple. Discrepancies aren't impossible, but this is a pretty big one to mess up - but then again the weiners write the history - or is it the winners? Oh well.[/SUP]