Question about LST

lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
Hi there, newbie to LST never done it before. Just basically wondering if i can LST a plant at any given time? and when is the recommended time frame to do this? because I was thinking of letting my plants stretch out to about a foot tall first and then LST to widen the plant at that height. or could i just LST now, (plants are about 5-6 inches) broaden the plant out and then continue growing the plant vertically afterwards? I am not entirely sure how it works but I assume the plants will always continue to stretch towards the light even after LST in early stages? Thanks for your input. I appreciate it guys!
 
ebcrew

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
I LST my plants as early as i can. I usually wait until there is enough growth to LST. Usually about 4 nodes is when i start.

sounds like u can start yours at 6 inches. Pictures would be better to judge.

2015-02-17 02.00.05.jpg Heres a northern light auto i LST at an early age.
 
lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
Well at the minute I have 2 super cheese strains, a trainwreck and an auto Diesel x Amnesia but the auto is still in seedling stage right now as ive kept it about 3 weeks behind the others so I can create more bud sights and get a greater yield. but if LST is keeping the plant low. then I should wait until the plant gets to a height I am happy with first before LST'ing it? at least for the normal non auto strains? because obviously the more vertical growth as well as horizontal will mean more bud in the long run right? so I should wait until the plants reach 1 ft or more first? Also I don't want to top the main cola and loose those big chunky buds lol
 
G

GSquaredFarm

Member
Don't want to top huh? I for one always prefer 2 or more chunky colas to just one, but that is my preference.

You can LST as soon as you have enough plant material to tie down. LSTing is not going to keep your plant at the height you start LSTing (if you start at 1' LST is not going to keep that plant at one foot), it is going to allow you to manage the height better and help her grow up and out. I LST throughout the entire growth cycle (if need be).

Yes, LST will help increase your yield because you are exposing more of the plant to sunlight. Making her grow outward "opens up" the center of the plant to receive more light.

Good luck.
 
lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
GSquaredFarm said:
Don't want to top huh? I for one always prefer 2 or more chunky colas to just one, but that is my preference.

You can LST as soon as you have enough plant material to tie down. LSTing is not going to keep your plant at the height you start LSTing (if you start at 1' LST is not going to keep that plant at one foot), it is going to allow you to manage the height better and help her grow up and out. I LST throughout the entire growth cycle (if need be).

Yes, LST will help increase your yield because you are exposing more of the plant to sunlight. Making her grow outward "opens up" the center of the plant to receive more light.

Good luck.
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Thanks for the help. but doesn't topping stress the plant out and slow growth unlike LST? also. those 2 or more colas wont get to the same chunkiness as the 1 main cola right? and topping after the plants are like 6-8 inches... wont that make the already grown stuff at the bottom of the plant get less light and in turn less bud? I will then be required to lollipop later on right? sorry for all the thorough questions lol. it is only my second grow and I am trying to get as much info as possible for the best results possible under a 600w HPS.
 
G

GSquaredFarm

Member
lucasnooker said:
Thanks for the help. but doesn't topping stress the plant out and slow growth unlike LST? also. those 2 or more colas wont get to the same chunkiness as the 1 main cola right? and topping after the plants are like 6-8 inches... wont that make the already grown stuff at the bottom of the plant get less light and in turn less bud? I will then be required to lollipop later on right? sorry for all the thorough questions lol. it is only my second grow and I am trying to get as much info as possible for the best results possible under a 600w HPS.
Click to expand...
I am more than happy to answer any questions. I know I have asked my fair share and am glad I have an opportunity to give back. Before you read my suggestions and opinions, I want you to see my current grow (pic 1). I am running 2 600w lights and I use a top-fed ebb-n-flow system. This is my first grow. I have tons of theoretical knowledge about cultivating marijuana, but this is the first time I live somewhere that I can actually put my knowledge to the test. These are bag seeds from where I used to live and all the genetics are different. That is why you don't see a more uniform canopy. That being said...of course topping stresses the plant out, but if you do it right and space the toppings out then you could easily top your plant three times in a 4 week vegetative stage. I grow from seeds so my veg stage is longer than that.

You ask about the bottom stuff and the effect a topping will have on a plant that is 6-8 in. If you grow your plant like mother nature intended the bottom stuff is going to be sub-par anyway. We all know these are going to end up being popcorn buds. IMO, I don't care too much about the bottom stuff anyway, as you can tell by my plants. What will happen when you top it at 6-8 inches is that now the energy will be spread to two main stems instead of just the one. Do these two cola buds now yield more than a single bud would? I believe they do. If you top plants you have to believe you are doing so to increase yield or else why top them.

Topping doesn't mean you have to lollipop. I went into this grow knowing that as soon as I switched to 12/12 I was going to massively defoliate these plants in order to force all the flowering energy into the buds I wanted, not where the plant felt necessary to supply energy. I could have just as easily left all the bottom and side branches in tact. Most of these have 8-10 "main" cola sites. There is a sativa that I topped every chance I could at every possible site I could just to see what would happen. There are 31 "main" cola sites (pic 2). All of the buds are very similar in size and shape (pic 3). There isn't one bud that is significantly bigger than the other. I tried to capture the length of one entire bud, but it was difficult (pic 4).

I may use LST a little differently. You don't see any plants being pulled down in pic 1. Once the plant starts to grow the way I want it, I release the tie and only tie her back down if she needs it. Most of the plants fit in the canopy, but one beast is still growing like a weed. She likes being tied down more than a mistress at a S&M parlor. I tried to demonstrate how far I was able to get her to move out, instead of up and burn herself (pic 5 and 6). I also use supercropping to get them to move where I need them. You can see in pic 7 where the branch was directed out, but then back in.

I hope this helps. 2015-02-20 08.52.37.jpg 2015-02-20 08.46.36 (2).jpg 2015-02-20 08.50.22 (2).jpg 2015-02-20 08.51.19.jpg 2015-02-20 10.48.00.jpg 2015-02-20 10.47.43.jpg 2015-02-20 08.53.48.jpg
 

Attachments

Lysergicpt

Lysergicpt

Well-Known Member
GSquaredFarm said:
I am more than happy to answer any questions. I know I have asked my fair share and am glad I have an opportunity to give back. Before you read my suggestions and opinions, I want you to see my current grow (pic 1). I am running 2 600w lights and I use a top-fed ebb-n-flow system. This is my first grow. I have tons of theoretical knowledge about cultivating marijuana, but this is the first time I live somewhere that I can actually put my knowledge to the test. These are bag seeds from where I used to live and all the genetics are different. That is why you don't see a more uniform canopy. That being said...of course topping stresses the plant out, but if you do it right and space the toppings out then you could easily top your plant three times in a 4 week vegetative stage. I grow from seeds so my veg stage is longer than that.

You ask about the bottom stuff and the effect a topping will have on a plant that is 6-8 in. If you grow your plant like mother nature intended the bottom stuff is going to be sub-par anyway. We all know these are going to end up being popcorn buds. IMO, I don't care too much about the bottom stuff anyway, as you can tell by my plants. What will happen when you top it at 6-8 inches is that now the energy will be spread to two main stems instead of just the one. Do these two cola buds now yield more than a single bud would? I believe they do. If you top plants you have to believe you are doing so to increase yield or else why top them.

Topping doesn't mean you have to lollipop. I went into this grow knowing that as soon as I switched to 12/12 I was going to massively defoliate these plants in order to force all the flowering energy into the buds I wanted, not where the plant felt necessary to supply energy. I could have just as easily left all the bottom and side branches in tact. Most of these have 8-10 "main" cola sites. There is a sativa that I topped every chance I could at every possible site I could just to see what would happen. There are 31 "main" cola sites (pic 2). All of the buds are very similar in size and shape (pic 3). There isn't one bud that is significantly bigger than the other. I tried to capture the length of one entire bud, but it was difficult (pic 4).

I may use LST a little differently. You don't see any plants being pulled down in pic 1. Once the plant starts to grow the way I want it, I release the tie and only tie her back down if she needs it. Most of the plants fit in the canopy, but one beast is still growing like a weed. She likes being tied down more than a mistress at a S&M parlor. I tried to demonstrate how far I was able to get her to move out, instead of up and burn herself (pic 5 and 6). I also use supercropping to get them to move where I need them. You can see in pic 7 where the branch was directed out, but then back in.

I hope this helps. View attachment 3355654 View attachment 3355655 View attachment 3355656 View attachment 3355658 View attachment 3355659 View attachment 3355660 View attachment 3355661
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He said it all .. the sun is the sun a lamp is a lamp. Toping is crucial for indoor unless you go sog or dont care abou yeild. ;)
 
lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
wow man. that is pretty awesome if that is indeed your first grow. well done. my first grow was just in super soil and I only vegged for 4 weeks without trying any LST, cropping or other such stuff. only got like 2 oz plants. nothing special, this time I am trying to get the greatest yield possible. Right now my plants are still young and have just gone past week 3 of growth. Here are some pics. what do you recommend I do from this point on to get the greatest yield possible from my plants? should I start LST'ing straight away? I do bend the stems daily to release growth hormones but I have not tied them down. I am growing in coco mixed with perlite so I am feeding every day and growth seems steady and stable. Also should i rip off the bottom leaves including the stems? 1 of the plants got burnt from heat stress when I first transferred them due to it being so close to the light for 4 hours or so. It didn't effect much but as you can see from the pictures, the biggest plant of them all has some slight scaring from heat. the bottom leaves had the worst burn and are constantly touching the top of the medium. Should I just tear those off including stems? and will the other plants catch up to the bigger one as the weeks go on? Thanks for the help guys. If you see any problems please do point them out, cheers :P

IMG_0752.JPG IMG_0755.JPG IMG_0756.JPG IMG_0757.JPG IMG_0759.JPG
 
G

GSquaredFarm

Member
lucasnooker said:
wow man. that is pretty awesome if that is indeed your first grow. well done. my first grow was just in super soil and I only vegged for 4 weeks without trying any LST, cropping or other such stuff. only got like 2 oz plants. nothing special, this time I am trying to get the greatest yield possible. Right now my plants are still young and have just gone past week 3 of growth. Here are some pics. what do you recommend I do from this point on to get the greatest yield possible from my plants? should I start LST'ing straight away? I do bend the stems daily to release growth hormones but I have not tied them down. I am growing in coco mixed with perlite so I am feeding every day and growth seems steady and stable. Also should i rip off the bottom leaves including the stems? 1 of the plants got burnt from heat stress when I first transferred them due to it being so close to the light for 4 hours or so. It didn't effect much but as you can see from the pictures, the biggest plant of them all has some slight scaring from heat. the bottom leaves had the worst burn and are constantly touching the top of the medium. Should I just tear those off including stems? and will the other plants catch up to the bigger one as the weeks go on? Thanks for the help guys. If you see any problems please do point them out, cheers :P

View attachment 3355787 View attachment 3355789 View attachment 3355791 View attachment 3355793 View attachment 3355795
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This is what I would do if I were in your shoes. It looks like they are on about their 5th or 6th set of true leaves. I would top the big one and one of the other two back to above the third set of true leaves. So, cut them between the 3rd and 4th set of true leaves. Leave the other one alone and let it grow naturally so you can determine which way you prefer to grow. On the big one I would top it at least three more times before flowering. This is how I would do it...Let the plant recover. To me that means let three more true sets of leaves grow out of the topped branches and top it again, repeat this process as many times as you want, but stop about 2 weeks before you switch them to 12/12. Let her recover before you switch her gears to flower production. On the other plant you top, only do it the once. See which plant you like best of the three when all is said and done.

I only tied mine down when the canopy started to get uneven. I supercropped them when I wanted them to grow in a certain direction. But to answer your question, I don't see what benefit LST would give you at this point in your grow. You have plenty of room it looks like. When you top them you will notice that they bush out everywhere, not just where you cut it. Then LST will start to come in handy because you will want to encourage the branches to grow out, allowing the middle of the plant to receive light.

There are two schools of thought to your question about leave/branch removal. The old school, IMO, believes that you should never remove a leaf unless it is more than 50% yellow or otherwise unhealthy. That school would probably never remove a whole branch. I follow a newer train of thought that doesn't hold as much value to any part of the plant that isn't going to produce the way you want it to. I would remove them, but wait until it recovers from the topping.

Will the others catch up? I would venture to say that the tall one is probably a male and will just naturally grow taller faster than the others. Don't hold me to that though. LOL
 
lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
GSquaredFarm said:
This is what I would do if I were in your shoes. It looks like they are on about their 5th or 6th set of true leaves. I would top the big one and one of the other two back to above the third set of true leaves. So, cut them between the 3rd and 4th set of true leaves. Leave the other one alone and let it grow naturally so you can determine which way you prefer to grow. On the big one I would top it at least three more times before flowering. This is how I would do it...Let the plant recover. To me that means let three more true sets of leaves grow out of the topped branches and top it again, repeat this process as many times as you want, but stop about 2 weeks before you switch them to 12/12. Let her recover before you switch her gears to flower production. On the other plant you top, only do it the once. See which plant you like best of the three when all is said and done.

I only tied mine down when the canopy started to get uneven. I supercropped them when I wanted them to grow in a certain direction. But to answer your question, I don't see what benefit LST would give you at this point in your grow. You have plenty of room it looks like. When you top them you will notice that they bush out everywhere, not just where you cut it. Then LST will start to come in handy because you will want to encourage the branches to grow out, allowing the middle of the plant to receive light.

There are two schools of thought to your question about leave/branch removal. The old school, IMO, believes that you should never remove a leaf unless it is more than 50% yellow or otherwise unhealthy. That school would probably never remove a whole branch. I follow a newer train of thought that doesn't hold as much value to any part of the plant that isn't going to produce the way you want it to. I would remove them, but wait until it recovers from the topping.

Will the others catch up? I would venture to say that the tall one is probably a male and will just naturally grow taller faster than the others. Don't hold me to that though. LOL
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. What would be the difference in topping all the way down to 3rd or 4th set of leaves compared to just topping now? also they are all feminised seeds. its just that the bigger plant started out in a bigger pot than the previous ones before the transfer that's all. the first set of leaves at the bottom are pretty unhealthy on the big plant lol. they are yellow and shrivelled and pointing down into the coco basically. Pretty unhealthy but they are attatched to 2 main stems that are still solid and have purpleish stalks to them so I am not sure if I should remove them or not? you can see it slightly in the first picture at the base of the biggest plant drooping down into the coco. And i thought if i just left them to do their thing until they were tall enough and then tied the main stem down it would do the same thing and bush out the plant just a bit later in its vegetative cycle? like this I seen on youtube, would this give me similar results or is it best to top the plant?......


 
G

GSquaredFarm

Member
lucasnooker said:
Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. What would be the difference in topping all the way down to 3rd or 4th set of leaves compared to just topping now? also they are all feminised seeds. its just that the bigger plant started out in a bigger pot than the previous ones before the transfer that's all. the first set of leaves at the bottom are pretty unhealthy on the big plant lol. they are yellow and shrivelled and pointing down into the coco basically. Pretty unhealthy but they are attatched to 2 main stems that are still solid and have purpleish stalks to them so I am not sure if I should remove them or not? you can see it slightly in the first picture at the base of the biggest plant drooping down into the coco. And i thought if i just left them to do their thing until they were tall enough and then tied the main stem down it would do the same thing and bush out the plant just a bit later in its vegetative cycle? like this I seen on youtube, would this give me similar results or is it best to top the plant?......


Click to expand...
Topping at the place you are now is fine. How many true sets of leaves do you have? I know this is not the answer you want, but, you should do what you feel comfortable doing. If anything anyone suggests makes your gut go, "I don't know about that," then don't do it. I would cut to the third set because I would want my plant to be as bushy as possible as low to the ground as possible; knowing full well the lower I cut the more time I have "wasted." This "get as bushy as quickly as possible" philosophy is the same reason I don't just wait until the plant gets big enough to tie the top cola down below the lower branches; why wait. This is just my two cents worth. Remember how much you paid for this advice and that should keep everything in perspective. The most important thing is to have fun. Do that and no matter what your final yield is, you will walk away with more than you started.
 
ebcrew

ebcrew

Well-Known Member
lucasnooker said:
Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. What would be the difference in topping all the way down to 3rd or 4th set of leaves compared to just topping now? also they are all feminised seeds. its just that the bigger plant started out in a bigger pot than the previous ones before the transfer that's all. the first set of leaves at the bottom are pretty unhealthy on the big plant lol. they are yellow and shrivelled and pointing down into the coco basically. Pretty unhealthy but they are attatched to 2 main stems that are still solid and have purpleish stalks to them so I am not sure if I should remove them or not? you can see it slightly in the first picture at the base of the biggest plant drooping down into the coco. And i thought if i just left them to do their thing until they were tall enough and then tied the main stem down it would do the same thing and bush out the plant just a bit later in its vegetative cycle? like this I seen on youtube, would this give me similar results or is it best to top the plant?......


Click to expand...
that guy must be super old school, im no expert but he did a lot of things wrong in that video. i wouldnt recommend that to a first time grower.
 
lucasnooker

lucasnooker

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the responses guys. my plants are on their 6th or 7th set of true leaves by this point and I still haven't topped yet or done anything to them. All I am currently doing as of now is bending the stems every day before they go under the light to release growth hormones and feeding them plenty on a regular basis due to it being coco as the medium. but I do intend to do something soon to bush out the plants more as I'm hoping to get at least like 5oz a plant or something. and ebcrew, what makes you say that he did a lot of things wrong? could you elaborate by any chance? just trying to look for the best solution possible, what method do you recommend for a first time grower for best results? should I just top the plant now and keep topping further as the growth continues?
 
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