Question About Second Generation Seeds

Jalepandro

Active Member
Hello, Rollitup, it has been a little while since I have lurked these boards and contributed my handful of posts, but it is getting really close to that time of year for my growing season to begin up here in the Pacific Northwest.
I completed my first grow last year, harvesting a quarter pound off of 6 plants (took me 3 months to smoke it all, so I smoke at the rate of a pound a year), and I am interested in starting up another small-scale, personal-use grow this year.
The seeds that I acquired last year were from a fellow patient that I was taking care of for a while as a caretaker before getting my own card and starting this great hobby that I am quite passionate about. The fellow patient that I am speaking of had an indoor system that I would tend to.
She/He gave me her/his seeds from indoor plants, and I used them in the great outdoors. Living in my condition, I could not afford the increase in the monthly electricity bills- but I could afford some soil and nutrients, and the free seeds that I was given. So I looked to the sun as my source of light, and I was quite happy with how it turned out.
I harvested 4 ounces of marijuana, and saved roughly 30 seeds from the plants that I had.

IMG_20120809_184757.jpg
Anyways, that was all last year.
Now it is one year later, and the growing bug is starting to bite at me again.
Please do not tell me that I should have been saving throughout the year to afford setting up lighting and heaters and humidifiers and fans and ventilation with filtration, as you can see- I have already been telling myself that, haha.
I want to grow outdoors again, still in the Pacific Northwest, except this time instead of having seeds from a plant that was grown indoors, I now have seeds from a plant that was grown outdoors in my region.

The question:
I would like to know: If the seeds adapt to the climate they were grown in from generation to generation, so the first generation of outdoors growing will have a rough time adjusting to the new conditions, then the second generation will be a little more adapted, and will thus be healthier(resistant to my climate) and produce a greater yield?
 

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
First, I'm betting that it would take a lot more generations than one to make any difference. Second, if you EVER post in all underlined again, I will track you down and comb my dogs nuts with your toothbrush. :)
 

diet coke

Active Member
How the seeds will grow depends on the strain, if they grew well last year should be good this year. Where these pollinated by a male plant or them selves.
 

Jalepandro

Active Member
First, I'm betting that it would take a lot more generations than one to make any difference. Second, if you EVER post in all underlined again, I will track you down and comb my dogs nuts with your toothbrush. :)
Trust me, brother, the underlining wasn't my desired way of posting that. My PC must be f***ing up or something, because it will not let me change that. I've tried multiple times now. With that out of the way, you can go take your dog and post useless replies elsewhere.IMG_20120809_183042.jpg
 

Jalepandro

Active Member
How the seeds will grow depends on the strain, if they grew well last year should be good this year. Where these pollinated by a male plant or them selves.
One of the seeds turned out to be a male, I kept him growing because I wanted my plants to propagate.
 

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
Trust me, brother, the underlining wasn't my desired way of posting that. My PC must be f***ing up or something, because it will not let me change that. I've tried multiple times now. With that out of the way, you can go take your dog and post useless replies elsewhere.
Humor is hard to see in type. I was just messing with you; I don't even have a male dog.
 

Jalepandro

Active Member
Humor is hard to see in type. I was just messing with you; I don't even have a male dog.
My apologies then, I don't want to come off as a bad guy either, haha. Referring to your earlier comment how you said you didn't think one generation would be enough to cause much of a change, do you know this from experience? Or are you inferring that any genetic mutation will take several generations?IMG_20120809_183116.jpg
 

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
It would not be a true mutation, just an adaptation. What strain are you growing? If it's indica dom then you don't have to worry about the cold; even the legendary MTF of Alaska was sativa dom. I think I can edit your post and undo the underlining if you want.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
My apologies then, I don't want to come off as a bad guy either, haha. Referring to your earlier comment how you said you didn't think one generation would be enough to cause much of a change, do you know this from experience? Or are you inferring that any genetic mutation will take several generations?
This is the re-start of the argument that got misinterpreted and twisted... are you talking natural genetic drift, or true genetic mutation? an outside force acting on it like irradiation? Are you referring to a shift of genotype that would allow it to adapt more easily to the outdoor conditions as opposed to the previous indoor ones? Need a bit more information here, too many things to guess at.
 

Jalepandro

Active Member
This is the re-start of the argument that got misinterpreted and twisted... are you talking natural genetic drift, or true genetic mutation? an outside force acting on it like irradiation? Are you referring to a shift of genotype that would allow it to adapt more easily to the outdoor conditions as opposed to the previous indoor ones? Need a bit more information here, too many things to guess at.
Thank god I actually took Anthropology in college, haha! Genetic drift does not result in adaptation, but rather the continuation of whatever is left after part of the specimens are destroyed for one reason or another. I am referring to the plants adapting to be better suited to the outdoor climate rather than the indoor climate. I feel like this will have little effect on the phenotype, so yes, I suppose the genotype would be the changed variable this time around: in other words, can the genotype change (via mutation, which is a process that changes the genotype of a species from genetic combination of two parent specimens and the re-writing of genetic data, however I suppose some genetic drift will be working into my process of propagation because I did not successfully grow a few plants that unfortunately were killed off by the weather) in a way that would make it adapt to it's new environment and produce a greater yield in following generations.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Thank god I actually took Anthropology in college, haha! Genetic drift does not result in adaptation, but rather the continuation of whatever is left after part of the specimens are destroyed for one reason or another. I am referring to the plants adapting to be better suited to the outdoor climate rather than the indoor climate. I feel like this will have little effect on the phenotype, so yes, I suppose the genotype would be the changed variable this time around: in other words, how can the genotype change (via mutation) which is a process that changes the genotype of a species from genetic combination of two parent specimens and the re-writing of genetic data, however I suppose some genetic drift will be working into my process of propagation because I did not successfully grow a few plants that unfortunately were killed off by the weather.
Yes, it adaptation can slowly change as you cross, or do other things to it (like take 1/2 the plant fem w/CS or GA) - will take time though.. 1-3 seasons will probably be nowhere near enough. I was aware that genetic drift doesn't result in adaptation, was trying to clarify what you were asking so I didn't give you an answer that was nothing related to what you were trying to convey. :)
 

Jalepandro

Active Member
Crud, so I'm under the impression that my plants will grow roughly the same as they did last year. Maybe five years down the line I will have a noticeable difference in yield? If I can make a seed adapted to my climate, I feel like this is something that could really help my state. Especially now that I-502 has been passed, legalizing recreational marijuana for people 21 and older in Washington, I feel like there is a huge potential for the marijuana industry up here- just have to figure out a way to tap into it.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Crud, so I'm under the general impression that my plans will grow roughly the same as they did last year. Maybe five years down the line I will have a noticeable difference in yield? If I can make a seed adapted to my climate, I feel like this is something that could really help my state. Especially now that I-502 has been passed, legalizing recreational marijuana for people 21 and older in Washington, I feel like there is a huge potential for the marijuana industry up here- just have to figure out a way to tap into it.
Check out the seeds used by those who grow in BC, and you shouldn't have an issue as it's very very close conditions-wise, they'd actually be a bit colder generally, due to the jet stream patterns, I do believe... If you want to tap into it, you're going to need to start small, and grow -quality- crop. If your crop isn't the shit, it will not move like you'd expect it to. Too bad you can't keep the inside grow going perpetual with outside to supplement it, you could easily take care of quite a few patients with no difficulty at all.
 

333maxwell

Active Member
Yo.. check it..

They are just seed..

If you liked last years crop, you will probably like this years crop.

As long as the seeds are mature you've obviously got nothing to lose.. I'd be planting them left and right.. if I had a left and a right..

That's just me. Good luck, I'll bet it's a great growing season for you, you';; triple that 6 ounces easy this time with a bit of extra care and attention~!
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
Would the same thing happen with clones that were cloned over an over?
Some of my clones are on the 9th cutting of a cutting and seem to adapt better than the original seeded plant.
Just wondering... does DNA re-write itself in the cloned clone?
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Would the same thing happen with clones that were cloned over an over?
Some of my clones are on the 9th cutting of a cutting and seem to adapt better than the original seeded plant.
Just wondering... does DNA re-write itself in the cloned clone?
According to what many many people say, it shouldn't happen with clones.. but I've gotten into a long argument about genetic equilibrium, and I believe that to some extent.. it's possible, although it's not guaranteed.. and the % of it happening would be very very low (vs the total population)
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
According to what many many people say, it shouldn't happen with clones.. but I've gotten into a long argument about genetic equilibrium, and I believe that to some extent.. it's possible, although it's not guaranteed.. and the % of it happening would be very very low (vs the total population)
Equilibrium is a point to ponder.

If a single plant, whether it be either male or female, clone or seed, cannot itself update dna data,
why would a pollinated seed adapt to the last conditions over time?

Magic in the pollen?
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Equilibrium is a point to ponder.

If a single plant, whether it be either male or female, clone or seed, cannot itself update dna data,
why would a pollinated seed adapt to the last conditions over time?

Magic in the pollen?
The morphology of the plant.. a solid example of this is the cactus, which slowly shifted over much time from leaves to spines, more efficient ways of collecting rain, etc. Easiest way to guess at what is most likely to take hold and shift first is to analyze the conditions of where it's been growing, vs where it's going now... being temps, light quantity, light quality, pollination abilities, medium, rainfall, temperature, enriched CO2 vs not.. After working all this through, it's possible that clones could do the same - if, and only if.. you grew a clone out, cloned off of that clone.. and kept working through the same setup, playing with the roll of the dice. (figuratively)
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
The morphology of the plant.. a solid example of this is the cactus, which slowly shifted over much time from leaves to spines, more efficient ways of collecting rain, etc. Easiest way to guess at what is most likely to take hold and shift first is to analyze the conditions of where it's been growing, vs where it's going now... being temps, light quantity, light quality, pollination abilities, medium, rainfall, temperature, enriched CO2 vs not.. After working all this through, it's possible that clones could do the same - if, and only if.. you grew a clone out, cloned off of that clone.. and kept working through the same setup, playing with the roll of the dice. (figuratively)
Cactus is a good example.
Where or how does it store this info? How did it come to adapt itself to the hellish temperatures of the desert?
The DNA but how?
fuck, I shoulda studied those botany books!
 
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