mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Not in this thread.
Question My Beliefs, But Be Prepared To Answer For Yours :)
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Hey guys you know what we should do? Smoke a bowl in honor of everything we have learned from believers and non-believers and forgive each other of every insult and let this thread die fall to the bottom of the endless pit of threads.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Heis, great posts on #91 & #93, that has been floating around in my head since page 5, great job at verbalizing it!
(this isn't an atheist backing up another atheist oly, it's one human being showing admiration for the thought another human being put into a response. See, I appreciate it, and it's not because he doesn't believe in God...)
Kudos to you too MP, excellent posts man!
You would get equal praise all around, and IMPRESS THE HELL out of me personally, if you answered those 11 questions I asked you. The more you skirt around them and accuse someone else of being biased against believers the more you just make yourself look like you are unable to answer them, leaving the rest of us to wonder "why couldn't/wouldn't he answer them..?"... and the thing about that is, we already know the answer to that question, we know why you won't answer them. Deep down, I think you know why too, you just can't accept it because your not prepared to, yet...
MP asked you something I was also very curious about, and if you can't get to those previous 11, then just answer the one he brought up; How do you know what you felt in high school was God, and more specifically, how do you know it was the Christian god? Keep in mind and consider the points MP brought up when you reply, don't just say "I know because I know OK!" that doesn't TELL ME anything. I want to know HOW you know.
(this isn't an atheist backing up another atheist oly, it's one human being showing admiration for the thought another human being put into a response. See, I appreciate it, and it's not because he doesn't believe in God...)
Kudos to you too MP, excellent posts man!
You would get equal praise all around, and IMPRESS THE HELL out of me personally, if you answered those 11 questions I asked you. The more you skirt around them and accuse someone else of being biased against believers the more you just make yourself look like you are unable to answer them, leaving the rest of us to wonder "why couldn't/wouldn't he answer them..?"... and the thing about that is, we already know the answer to that question, we know why you won't answer them. Deep down, I think you know why too, you just can't accept it because your not prepared to, yet...
MP asked you something I was also very curious about, and if you can't get to those previous 11, then just answer the one he brought up; How do you know what you felt in high school was God, and more specifically, how do you know it was the Christian god? Keep in mind and consider the points MP brought up when you reply, don't just say "I know because I know OK!" that doesn't TELL ME anything. I want to know HOW you know.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I think this is a perfectly acceptable reason for a person to believe in god. I of course do not think it reflects reality, but it at least adds some context and support for the way you feel. Even though it doesn't excuse certainty, it is an answer to the question of 'can you explain your beliefs', and any answer to that question sends a different message than outright refusal. We could of course break it down into the errors we see in that belief and follow through on the thinking, but this thread was intended to get away from the typical god vs evolution vs spirituality debates. I think you should stop feeling that we are against you and consider that maybe we are simply treating you as our intellectual equal and therefore expect you to live up to some basic standards of debate. There is certainly many chances for us to misunderstand each other but I can only go by what you present to us in your posts, and your posts sometimes come across like a dog who has been beaten and is now suspicious of every hand that comes towards his face. You assumed this was just another god thread, a transparent trap to get you to bring up your religion and rehash the arguments that got deleted. We are trying to tell you that this was intended to talk about the method by which we handle all beliefs, and yes god can fit into that category, but lets have a conversation about beliefs that does not deteriorate into that same old rhetoric.
So lets try starting from a different angle. How about you bring up a belief that you think is silly. Is there a belief or myth that many people hold which you think is completely see through? Is there an aspect of human belief which you find curious and want to examine? I do not seek to take what you say and then use it against you in the context of religion. I just find the philosophy of skepticism to be a useful tool and am tired of that message being obscured by religious politics.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I hate how people believe in karma, yet can't even explain the basic idea behind it. Shit really gets on my nerves..
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Or when someone claiming to be Christian says they hope to come back as a bird when they die, wtf?!
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
I want to come back as a pok'e'mon
olylifter420
Well-Known Member
why is it so important to you that i address those questions even if i have already addressed the OP?
I know this because i was praying to the Christian God which is my God. I was not praying to another god from another religion.
when have i said that?
How do you know what book you are reading? Its the same thing. You consciously know what you are doing at that moment and to whom you are praying to.
olylifter420
Well-Known Member
when you take a shit, do you look at the paper after wiping?
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Have any of you smoked dmt?
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
I find most conspiracy theories silly. Most of them need such a high level of cooperative silence on so many levels that just isn't possible. I think the ancient alien stuff is so easily refuted. The people that believe it, want to believe, they stretch the evidence to make it fit their beliefs while all of the time dismissing the more rational explanations.
I fell for some of the psychic phenomena when I was in high school. I remember writing a paper on the subject that lacked any skepticism. I was into magic for quite some time but it wasn't until years later that I became interested in mentalism and found out how much of it comes from the gypsies and fraudulent psychics like Uri Geller -- if anyone is interested in a fascinating look at Geller, don't read James Randi, pick up a copy of Gellerism Revealed by Ben Harris. It is sold mostly to magicians, not the lay public. http://www.hanklee.org/xcart/product.php?productid=6074
Being a magician helped me learn how we can intentionally fool the mind. Misdirection takes many forms, including verbal, visual, auditory, time-based. Some of the oldest magic books have ideas in them that neuroscientists are now just confirming. People have known for a long time before science that the mind can be fooled and taken advantage of this. When done outside the stage and passed off as real, even those of high intelligence have been fooled. People still believe in witchcraft and shaminism and other sorts of magic. I find that credulous as well.
I fell for some of the psychic phenomena when I was in high school. I remember writing a paper on the subject that lacked any skepticism. I was into magic for quite some time but it wasn't until years later that I became interested in mentalism and found out how much of it comes from the gypsies and fraudulent psychics like Uri Geller -- if anyone is interested in a fascinating look at Geller, don't read James Randi, pick up a copy of Gellerism Revealed by Ben Harris. It is sold mostly to magicians, not the lay public. http://www.hanklee.org/xcart/product.php?productid=6074
Being a magician helped me learn how we can intentionally fool the mind. Misdirection takes many forms, including verbal, visual, auditory, time-based. Some of the oldest magic books have ideas in them that neuroscientists are now just confirming. People have known for a long time before science that the mind can be fooled and taken advantage of this. When done outside the stage and passed off as real, even those of high intelligence have been fooled. People still believe in witchcraft and shaminism and other sorts of magic. I find that credulous as well.
olylifter420
Well-Known Member
what i am very curious about is why cant atheists just let believers be, well at least myself? Why do they hold my beliefs against me?
How is possible to be guilty by association?
I can bet that if we are very similar just that i am a believer and you all are not.
olylifter420
Well-Known Member
are you cris angel?
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Dude, just listen to yourself. I just listed beliefs that can be discussed without invoking religion or god. You seem to be hung up on thinking this is about atheism or theism when it is pure epistemology. Let it go and join the discussion regarding other beliefs if you want. You seem to be the only one bringing up god.
olylifter420
Well-Known Member
i did bring up that other belief or superstition if you may...
when you take a shit, do you look at the paper after the first wipe?
when you take a shit, do you look at the paper after the first wipe?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I agree. Karma is the belief that the nature of our deeds determines the nature of our luck. The problem is that most people can not explain how the deeds turn into luck, nor have they tried. When they do try, they use science sounding language and cite thermodynamic laws and quantum theory, despite their explanations directly contradicting those laws. A variation of this idea has recently gained new attention with the release of the book 'The Secret', which was endorsed by Oprah. Now we have tens of thousands of housewives out there who believe that they can get their husbands to stop cheating on them if they just want it hard enough. My questions to you are; what do you suppose the harm in this sort of belief is, and why do you suppose it has pervaded multiple cultures and persisted for so long?
I have not but I do accredit MJ and LSD for some of the early inclinations I had towards critical thinking. I remember tripping one time as a teen watching TV by myself and every commercial seemed to be saying "hey you, buy this product! You'll love it! This guy loved it! These people are happy! It's a fuckin great product!". I think a lot of teens who experiment with drugs have a tendency towards skepticism via their desire to rebel, they just lack the focus and wisdom to utilize it properly.
Ah but the fact that so many people keep quiet on such a large scale is just indication of how grand the conspiracy is! But really, it is hard to believe conspiracies which require thousands and thousands of people to have had knowledge, but never produce one deathbed confession or one member who found Jesus and wants to come clean. All conspiracy theories have this in common, as well as the luxury of being able to turn any criticism of the theory into support for the theory, via the conspiracy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and conspiracy theories provide nothing but an extraordinary lack of proof.
Yep magicians often demonstrate artful critical thinking skills. (with perhaps the exception of David Blaine) and some of them are quite vocal about promoting skepticism. Magicians demonstrate that it is possible, even when you are fully aware of the trappings of human perceptions and biases, to be fooled simply and completely right in front of your eyes. I am curious, as a magician and mentalist are you often fooled by other performers tricks when you first see them?
Another profession which produces a lot of critical thinkers is comedy, particularly stand ups. Writing stand up comedy often entails not taking things at face value and dissecting the reasons why humans do and think certain things. Comedians spend a lot of time thinking deeply about subjects like religion and political and emotional motivation. Interesting that so many of them have come to similar conclusions as skeptics, magicians and scientists.
Well Oly here you were given a chance to steer the topic away from theistic examination, and you seem to wish to persist, but fair enough, lets look at the reasons we think passive beliefs do or do not hurt society. I actually asked these questions a few pages back, but people were distracted. How about you take a shot at answering them from your perspective?
Luger187
Well-Known Member
this forum also pertains to sexuality and philosophy. would you also assume this thread is about sexuality? id say its more about philosophy if anything. its all about asking how you determine beliefs. religion is just one kind of belief. try choosing another
Luger187
Well-Known Member
i think that may have to do with a sense of control. with that housewife scenario, the woman may feel like she has no control over whether her husband cheats or not. she may think he has made up his mind. but when they see this book, theres a chance for them to control the situation. they like the idea of changing the outcome in their favor, so they tend to believe it is true.
edit: forgot to answer your questions. i think the harm in this kind of thing is that people are 'distracted' from what is really going on. for instance, that housewife might start wishing or wanting her husband to stop cheating. because of that book, she is concentrating on that. but in reality, the real way to make him stop is by talking to him about it and hopefully working things out. she THINKS the best way to go about it is to do what the book says. but really, it probably wont affect the outcome much at all.
i think it is in most cultures because its a part of being human. when we believe in karma/luck, we tend to concentrate on the positive. we remember the outcomes that worked in our favor(supposedly coming from our own actions), and forget the ones that dont. with the ones that dont work in our favor, we tend to dismiss it for one reason or another. so maybe that belief in karma overrides the logical connection between two events.
i think commercials are odd too. seeing a person that loves a certain product say they love a product, isnt going to make me buy it. i will buy it if i need it, or the food looks good, etc. when watching commercials, im always reminded that they are actors just like in the tv shows i was just watching.