Question on a 2 - 600w HPS system

Hey people, I recently came upon enough funds to set up a good sized grow room. I have at my disposal Two 600 Watt Lumatek MH/HPS ballasts and light systems w/air cooled reflectores, and I am about to construct a grow room. Now I had a first timer question, how many plants would be most efficient.

I have had countless people tell me that 100 watts per plant is needed, but I know that's not true because my friend has a 4x4 garden under one 450 watt and has achieved pretty decent results.
Now I've also heard that the proportion of light to bud weight is about One Watt to One Gram. Now with this said for me to get about an ounce per plan I could potentially do 16 plants under each light.
I wanted to do a big plant set up, but I was going to try and do 25 plants under those 1200 watts with a little less than 50 watts per plant. Now I'm pretty sure I would be able to pull off at least two pounds in this system.

Now my second question is, to maximize light efficiency should I make the room a 5x5 square with one square foot per plant, or a rectangle with one square foot per plant. Now I was also thinking of making a 6'x6' area so they could have a little bit of space in between them to grow out when they need to.

So my last question would be first of all, would any of those combinations work and if so how much bud do you think each plant will harvest(I plan on using mainly indicas). And then if they were to work what would be your opinion on the height they should be before I make them flower, maybe about a foot and a half or two and a half feet?

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!

You have to take plant genetics into mind aswell, I heard cheese yields pretty good.... I think the new saying for new growers is .5 grams per watt aswell.

Well, heres the deal.
Its not really about plant count unless you are trying to stay legal. Its about size.
If you veg 4 plants for a couple months they would yield the same as 16 plants that vegged a couple weeks.

I would go get some welded wire fencing and use it as a screen, comes 4 feet wide, make an 8 foot run with it.
Mount your screen about a foot above the soil level and as the plants grow top them and tie them back to the screen or weave them through. I tie back in case I want to readjust the canopy later. Hang your lights side by side about 4 feet apart not length wise. once 3/4 of the screen is full flip to 12/12. keep tieing back the first week or so then let them go. You will have a much more even canopy and all the buds will get light.

Oh OK, thank you for telling me that, is it also still reccomended for 100w a plant?
And So with 1200 watts and 25 plants i'd get about 28G's/Plant? Yeah, on the genetic side of the equation I'm going to be planting either Cataract Kush(which is OG and LA Confidential I think), and/or OG KushxBlueberry. So I'm not expecting a HUGE harvest, but I heard that these strains get around 400 to maybe 550 grams per meter squared if grown right, now do you think that means a meter squared with any type of set up or do they mean 4 big plants, 16 smaller plants, or even a SOG style 20+ plant system? Haha or am I just overthinking everything because I'm a newbie at this.

cruzer101,
So its basically i get the same amount no matter how many plants but as long as the space remains the same.
Ok I can buy some of that at my local hardware store, would I up it to 32 and go one square foot a plant? or would It really matter?

Oh when you said not to lay it length wise i was just wondering why, would there be a blind spot or something?
And one more question, by tying back do you mean just tying it to the screen, or bending it and tying it to the ground(is that what super cropping is)?

thank you

i vegged my plants 6 weeks and i got 12 under a 600w and its kinda pushing it. depends on how long u veg i guess. look into putting the lights vertical, after trying lots of set ups i love the stadium lay out for 600hps

To get the best results its best to let the plant mature if from seed. If you flower a plant from seed before it matures it will produce but not as much or as strong as if you did. Smaller number of plants tied back (yes bend them) to a screen will have the space to mature. Clones doesn't really matter, you could go 32 lolly pop them and flower. I would go with 12 myself and figure on vegging for two months.

The dead spot in the lighting is the ends of the lights, to get the most out of your lights use those lumens that shoot out the sides. (the length of the light) I've done it both ways, the dead spot occurs when you run them length wise a few feet apart, that's why I had suggested side by side, ends facing the 8 foot side of the screen.

What we are talking about is referred to as SCROG a screen of green. Super cropping is similar without a screen. That's where you fold the plant almost in half, pinching the stalk so it don't split. then tie it back. When you use a screen you start training early when the stalk is much easier to bend and you have much more control.

just dont do like me and get so jammed up u cant even get in ur garden to work. If u realize ur running out of space because they grow so fast ur not gonna wanna chop any of ur ladies so ur gonna end up needing more equiptment, that means more money more electric more heat. Having alot of plants is like a full time job, all it take is a little stress or bad genetics and a plant can herm and ruin the whole crop,it happened to me because i couldnt pay attention to so many plants. so only plant what ur sure u can handle and maybe a good grow book will help if ur still new, but experience and experimenting will do nothing but improve ur skills, good luck let us know what you decide to do

OK I see, so it the amount of vegging depends on the number of plants you have.

Since you both say that growing more plants with less veg time might get kind of hectic for a first timer I was thinking about going a little bit in between what cruzer said and what I had in mind, maybe about 18 plants total, 9 per light.
What amount of space would you reccomend for this amount of plants, still in a 4x8 and have them spaced out evenly or should I downsize to 3x8, but I don't know if that would be bad because it might take away some space, what are your thoughts?

cruzer, so for bending I would wait until it's in vegetative stage and then when it's nice and flexible I just bend it down and pin it in the ground?

Oh and yeah I've read three or four of Jorge Cervantez's books and watched his videos. I have also various Grow Bibles and Soma Seeds Organic Soil, and a few other ones. Haha and yeah I can't wait until I finally just try it so I can stop wondering and find out what I'm missing.

MountainManGanjaGrower said:

Since you both say that growing more plants with less veg time might get kind of hectic for a first timer I was thinking about going a little bit in between what cruzer said and what I had in mind, maybe about 18 plants total, 9 per light.

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I'm in your ballpark here in regards to amount of plants under two 600w hps lumatek's with lumatek hps bulbs and they are set to super lumens. It's quite hectic right now my space is roughly 6'6"x7'6"

alright then, so you're saying that even 9 plants is a bit much? Maybe I'll just do 6 per light as cruzer suggested earlier and have the lights end to end with the plants in 2x3 rows with 2 square feet each. If I did that they would also be getting hopefully around 100 watts per plant, which is what I've heard is a good amount.

My only problem was that I didn't want a lot of one kind of strain so I was hoping that I could do a 9 plant per light set up with 3 different strains, if I did twelve I could only do two without things getting too complicated.

Sorry for so many questions but I only have one more, If I did go with the twelve plant setup would I be able to do a different strain every 4 plants for 3 separate choices or would that cause too much of a confusion with fertilizer's strength, canopy top height, and other various things? or is it do-able with a little bit of love and attention?

Oh also once I get all of this figured out I can finally start. I want to begin by this weekend hopefully, and mid-July latest. So if you want watch my first grow ever check by in a week or two and I might have some pictures and info posted, if not it will only be a matter of time..

IMO... 8 plants in a 4x8 w (2) 600w lamps would be perfect. Allows enough space for them to stretch out and bush. Keep tying them into desired shape. I drill holes into the pots before planting or transplanting to make tying easier. Veg long and finish strong in 7 gal pots for high yield.. OR... you could grow about 32 little plants using a SOG setup.

You can grow as many strains as you'd like. I try to keep my cycles of strains w/ similar characteristics (sativa/indica). Helps keep the canopy level among other things. I hope any of this helps!

Good luck, can't wait to see what you come up with!

thank you for telling me about strains, I was thinking it would be alright as long as I stayed within a set range of Indica/Sativa ratio per plant genetics.

So you'd rather go with 8 big plants and let them grow as opposed to multiple little guys with tiny yeild/plant? I was originally going to do something like that but feared having too little number of plants my first time, and I just really don't want to kill one and have a huge chunk of my would-have-been harvest , but It would be a lot easier in deciding and setting up haha AND giving them enough space.

so i guess either way(large # of plants vs. Tiny # of plants) you'll have pro's and con's and no way is better than any other, its just what results you want to achieve and what kind of resources you have available.

And when you said "keep tying them to desired shape" are you talking about LST where I would bend it to give the lower branches light too instead of just the main cola(s).

As for deciding on a definite size now, I'm going down to my local co-op run by an old friend of mine. So hopefully he'll have some good advice to tell me while we medicate on my couch.
Another good thing was that he said he could also hook it up with some clones from around the area, so I might not have to worry about genetics TOO much because I would just be able to ask the growers about what the strain was like growing, and I already know it's good because they only keep mothers of the danky danks.
To me, this is a great find because I'll have help from not only all of the knowledgeable growers from the cyberspace realm and RIU, but I can also talk to local growers that could give me tips, I know I'm going on and on about this but I'm just getting excited because this is my first grow and it's going to be bigger than I expected it would be (I was ORIGINALLY going to do a ONE plant setup under a 400-watt, I'm not saying thata 400w is bad, I'm just saying that I'm fortunate to be able to afford this setup for my first grow)

Anyways, thank you all for the information you've been giving me it's been REALLY helpful on trying to decide my final plant #, and I have a better date on when I should be starting. I'm going to order all of the other things I need either tonight or tomorrow so they get here next week, while they're shipping I'll set up the frame, panda film, intake/exhaust, etc... and make sure it's perfect before I start so I'm not caught off guard(which is impossible since there are things of which I don't know what to expect, but hell i'll get as prepared as possible).

Then My goal is to be Set up and be able to plant the seeds on 9/7/11 by THE LATEST. So please peak over my shoulder as I go along and offer any advice you have to give because I like input from a variety of people, and because I could use all the help I can get, so thank you for reading this if you took the time

peace be with you always and don't forget to rip it up

You're hooked already. Growing is a lot of fun man.
Indoors the general idea is to top and bend the plant exposing the lower branches, then top and bend those to so you get an even canopy under your lights.
I suggested a screen because it gives you multiple tie down points. just remember when you bend a plant be sure the tip is not pointing down. That will slow growth.

Sounds like you got it, good luck man.

THANK YOU haha that was the one thing I wasn't to sure of. Good thing you told me that or I would have been doing whatever technique it is where you completely break the stem pretty much and let it grow back more robustly and I think it's supposed to make a new branch node wherever you break it too. But that sounded: 1. like plant torture(even if they can't feel, and 2. very difficult and a very wide window for the opportunity to kill my plants.

if you have good genetics and make a few mothers, taking 6-9 cuttings each and vegging them for 30 days, youll be happy with your results... on your first few grows, dont worry so much about how many plants you can grow, and worry more about them surviving and putting in the time. 18 plants is all you really need.. if you can get 1-4 oz per plant (4 being the ideal conditions. lighting, veg time, etc.) then youll get out of it all youll need. hone in your skills and knowledge and get to know your plants first. 18 plants on your first shot WILL be a mother fucker...id even consider a 4x4 grow area with 16 plants... you want to be able to get around all of your table and be able to tend to each plant..

i would definatly agree with 4 plants under 1 600w so 8 plants in total this is how i grow i normaly get 4-5 ounce a plant and if u get cought the punishment is next to nothing i grow from cuttings and leave them to grow big roughly 3-4 feet then flower

OK, I'd rather do 9 plants per light if I had too would that be fine under this amount of lighting?

There are too many variables in your equation.You want to know best lighting situation,you want to know how much light per plant,you want to know yield per plant.these are all questions only you are going to find out.the gram per watt thing doesnt even apply till you are all grown out and wheigh what you have,then divide by watts.If your nutrients arent right or you dont have certain nutrients and additives or if you dont use them in the correct way IMO are going to be your bigger problem over light situation.If you dont feed them right you definatly wont get the yield your expecting
Dude you have to crawl before you can walk or run in your case

I know I'm just kind of asking questions for what people would think not actual numbers. Haha believe me you're not the first to tell me that but I was just thinking someone could give me a ball-park estimate on them, you knkow maybe if they had grown before with what I'm doing and could just offer their opinion. I always tend to re-word my questions and ask a lot because thats just me man.
I mean i'm pretty sure you can't say you didn't want to know everything your first grow and then had everyone tell you you just had to do it, so i figured if I could ask questions online why not ask away
but you are right haha i should just stop asking all these questions and try it