Questions on best methods when the product will be ingested, not smoked

a9ymous

a9ymous

Well-Known Member
I'm asking because I think a lot of the guidelines I'm reading assume that the output will be smoked, and in my own case I am only interested in ingestion. So there are some steps I'm wondering about, for the experts out there.

1. Drying. Seen a lot about the importance of drying slowly, which I understand would be important when preparing freshly harvested plants for smoking. If the plants are going to be going straight to extraction, does it matter how fast it dries?

2. Flushing. Does this still need to be done, or done for as long, if smoke flavor isn't important? I'm using Fox Farm soil trio in FFOF soil, for reference.

3. In reading about QWET, it seems most guides recommend using fresh dried material, not decarbing first, and I'm thinking that's because it's assumed that the output will be smoked. Some guides do show how to decarb the extracted resin later (which looks a little trickier than decarbing the plant material in an oven first). Given that I would probably use QWET to dissolve into coconut oil for cooking with or (at a less dilute ratio) for capsules, should I not just decarb the weed first?

4. Should I be concerned about losing potency in baked goods if I am using already fully decarbed coconut oil and then use it to bake, say, brownies at 375F for 30 minutes, is it likely to degrade the potency?

What I've been doing is letting the weed dry out at its own pace, usually 2-3 days, in a basement that has a dehumidifier in it (except for a couple of choice bits for offering to guests for smoking, which I try to dry and cure with that in mind). Then I decarb it in the oven and combine it on low in a small crockpot with coconut or MCT oil for a few hours, and strain it out for cooking or taking by the spoonful. It's a little funky right off the spoon by itself but is just fine in foods and does get us high.

As for flushing, I don't run a lot of water through the plants at the end but I do give water only for at least 10 days before harvest. I also taper off feeding before that.

Appreciate any help & clarity on this guys, thanks.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
1. Always dry slowly, vapor pressures like nearly everything else in science are non linear ..but no we aren't worried about curing plant matter
2. I don't agree with flushing unless you have excess salt build up or are otherwise correcting grower error..one of those errors being overfeeding making the cure much harder
3. Decarbing the oil is most efficient as you can visually tell exactly when its finished.
4. Using heat of any kind will degrade..again non linear processes ....so yes baking already decarbed weed will degrade, so will decarbing using heat and will be more inefficient the faster you decarb.
This is why medibles are usually pretty sedating or just not as sativa like...cbd cbn and the more sedating cannabinoids are more stable than thc, as well as you know delta 8 and all degrading products obviously..

Best way for most thc is cure weed for 4 months or so.. extract using preferred method while minimizing degradation .. dissolve in hot coconut oil..put into capsules
 
S

solitarygrower

Member
Sorry for the noise & no help, but the best forum I've seen regarding concentrates (and edibles) are ICmag (. com).

Simply because of the knowlegde of the posters (as in educated about extraction and chemistry - way over my head, but I prefer that over "only" opinions).
 
a9ymous

a9ymous

Well-Known Member
Ok, well... I think what I shall do going forward is handle it differently for cooking and straight ingestion.

For cooking I'll just put the dry weed in the oven long enough to make sure it's very dry, then do the low-temp coconut oil in the crockpot. That will only partially decarb it so it won't go over the hill so much when it's cooked.

For taking directly I'll try making QWET that's been decarbed (using the method where you watch the co2 bubbles until they slow down) and mix it with coconut oil for capsules. Have never done it before but it doesn't look too horribly difficult.

No more trying to make a multipurpose extraction suitable for direct use and cooking too.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
1. Always dry slowly, vapor pressures like nearly everything else in science are non linear ..but no we aren't worried about curing plant matter
2. I don't agree with flushing unless you have excess salt build up or are otherwise correcting grower error..one of those errors being overfeeding making the cure much harder
3. Decarbing the oil is most efficient as you can visually tell exactly when its finished.
4. Using heat of any kind will degrade..again non linear processes ....so yes baking already decarbed weed will degrade, so will decarbing using heat and will be more inefficient the faster you decarb.
This is why medibles are usually pretty sedating or just not as sativa like...cbd cbn and the more sedating cannabinoids are more stable than thc, as well as you know delta 8 and all degrading products obviously..

Best way for most thc is cure weed for 4 months or so.. extract using preferred method while minimizing degradation .. dissolve in hot coconut oil..put into capsules
Click to expand...
Great info. What would be a decent ratio of Coconut oil: Buds? Fluid oz. to grams. Something strong but not overpowering. Thanks.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
I've only extracted with butter or coconut oil a few times, couldn't really tell you bud to oil
But when saturated..when no more hash dissolves in.. there's gonna be about 15mg per ml..pretty easy to judge dose based on that, being constant
wouldn't be hard to figure. ..... "most clean hash/kief gives a10% yield or less because of decreasing quality as you extract. If using hash that you got 10%yield from the corresponding bud, don't assume you collected all the trichs....if you normally use 20 grams per stick of butter(just picked a number) don't assume 10% of that equals how much kief you should use.. go ahead and use 20% or a bit less to account for product loss that remains on the bud..... your gonna have to judge your extraction rates and what it had to begin with, based on what you used"
Took a quote from me and bcogyoda..kinda opposite but you get the idea
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
I think his names gioua. He talks about using edibles constantly but I think he only uses butter, might ask him how much he uses
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
a9ymous said:
I'm asking because I think a lot of the guidelines I'm reading assume that the output will be smoked, and in my own case I am only interested in ingestion. So there are some steps I'm wondering about, for the experts out there.

1. Drying. Seen a lot about the importance of drying slowly, which I understand would be important when preparing freshly harvested plants for smoking. If the plants are going to be going straight to extraction, does it matter how fast it dries?

2. Flushing. Does this still need to be done, or done for as long, if smoke flavor isn't important? I'm using Fox Farm soil trio in FFOF soil, for reference.

3. In reading about QWET, it seems most guides recommend using fresh dried material, not decarbing first, and I'm thinking that's because it's assumed that the output will be smoked. Some guides do show how to decarb the extracted resin later (which looks a little trickier than decarbing the plant material in an oven first). Given that I would probably use QWET to dissolve into coconut oil for cooking with or (at a less dilute ratio) for capsules, should I not just decarb the weed first?

4. Should I be concerned about losing potency in baked goods if I am using already fully decarbed coconut oil and then use it to bake, say, brownies at 375F for 30 minutes, is it likely to degrade the potency?

What I've been doing is letting the weed dry out at its own pace, usually 2-3 days, in a basement that has a dehumidifier in it (except for a couple of choice bits for offering to guests for smoking, which I try to dry and cure with that in mind). Then I decarb it in the oven and combine it on low in a small crockpot with coconut or MCT oil for a few hours, and strain it out for cooking or taking by the spoonful. It's a little funky right off the spoon by itself but is just fine in foods and does get us high.

As for flushing, I don't run a lot of water through the plants at the end but I do give water only for at least 10 days before harvest. I also taper off feeding before that.

Appreciate any help & clarity on this guys, thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes. We remove the fan leaves and hang ours in a cool dry place for 5/7 days until the small sticks snap.


As you mention QWET, which is a polar solvent that loves water and chlorophyll, we then break the material into 1/4 - 1/2" chunks and place in the extraction jar, after which we freeze it and the ethanol to 0F to tie up the water and water soluble chlorophyll binding proteins.

We extract frozen, using multiple washes, but about 3 minutes each.

Opinions vary considerably on flushing, and it probably depends on what you've been feeding it.


I am tongue in cheek though, even though it sounds like a stellar idea, because water only comes into the plant carrying water solubles, and it leaves as a vapor through the leaf pores, leaving behind the solids.

Not sure how just feeding it water, with no nutrients, has anywhere to flush stuff.

I do notice a difference in taste between growing in chicken poop and fish fertilizer, with the fish fertilizer producing the better taste.

If you are using the QWET process, I see no advantage to decarbing to make the oil non polar. I also prefer to do so afterwards, so I can tell where I am at in the process by watching the bubbles.

Inside the brownie doesn't reach 375F for anywhere close to 30 minutes, but the brownies still get more sedative the more heat you use, because it is converting THC to CBN, a sedative.

There are less head effects consuming oil orally, than vaporizing it, and what I generally feel is more of a sense of well being than a high, with most of the effects relaxation and pain relief.
 
badsacref

badsacref

New Member
THC doesn't appreciably degrade or evaporate in 30 minutes @ 375F. I've tried heating oil at 175C (350F) and 225C (435F), and saw little (if any) conversion to CBN in 30 minutes. A friend of a friend told me that an hour at 300C (570F) will fully convert THC to CBN, but I haven't tried that yet.
 
M

MISSPHOEBE

Well-Known Member
I have made some delicious BHO! Now I want to EAT it! But its too hard and sticky and pain-in-the-buttish...........

Can I mix the BHO with actual HONEY...?
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
badsacref said:
THC doesn't appreciably degrade or evaporate in 30 minutes @ 375F. I've tried heating oil at 175C (350F) and 225C (435F), and saw little (if any) conversion to CBN in 30 minutes. A friend of a friend told me that an hour at 300C (570F) will fully convert THC to CBN, but I haven't tried that yet.
Click to expand...
Since THC boils at 157C, I would say that your friend has misspelled some numbers. Take a look at the decarboxylation chart to see what happens to THC levels, when you continue to heat past the 70% decarboxylation point. The level dropped 33% in about 45 minutes, when cooked at 145C.
 

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AlGore

AlGore

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
I think his names gioua. He talks about using edibles constantly but I think he only uses butter, might ask him how much he uses
Click to expand...
Is he the one with the pb recipe where you just fill it with ground up plant matter and eat it? Gross to me but simple and effective, hehe. I prefer to actually make peanut butter using canna oil.
 
badsacref

badsacref

New Member
Fadedawg said:
Since THC boils at 157C, I would say that your friend has misspelled some numbers. Take a look at the decarboxylation chart to see what happens to THC levels, when you continue to heat past the 70% decarboxylation point. The level dropped 33% in about 45 minutes, when cooked at 145C.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see how that was done. Do you have the full text? of the J. Chrom paper? It's not worth $40 to me.
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
badsacref said:
I'd like to see how that was done. Do you have the full text? of the J. Chrom paper? It's not worth $40 to me.
Click to expand...
The chart was originally presented on ICM by Jump 117, and I don't have the complete text. You might contact him for further information or perhaps Mig Pilot can help.
 
Grow Goddess

Grow Goddess

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Since THC boils at 157C, I would say that your friend has misspelled some numbers. Take a look at the decarboxylation chart to see what happens to THC levels, when you continue to heat past the 70% decarboxylation point. The level dropped 33% in about 45 minutes, when cooked at 145C.
Click to expand...
I believe you are right. I like to try to decarb my oil, RSO style, around 50-70%. After the oil is done I like to let it sit 6-8 weeks before use. Reason being, the 50-30% that is not decarbed or degraded, the THCa, will slowly naturally decarb over the 6-8 weeks. I keep it stored in a cool, dark, sealed environment. When I ingest the oil within 24 hours the buzz is much different, more comfortable and relaxing, less intense. After 72 hours, you start to notice the strength and the first increase in potency. Somewhere within the 2-8 week time frame, it suddenly does a change, almost overnight. It seems twice as strong. I don't care for surprises like that! At first I thought it was just me, but after more than three years of taking the oil consistently, and making it consistently, it has proven to be true time and time again. So I have done some research, and all of the research points in the same direction. If you want your oil decarbed to its highest potential, then after making it, I would sit on it for at least 6 weeks before ingesting.

To the OP: for ingestion purposes, I prefer RSO. Here is how I make it: https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30912-how-i-make-rso-concentrated.html
 
a9ymous

a9ymous

Well-Known Member
Here's what I just did, based on information from this thread and other threads.

Allowed a stunted but still sparkly plant from a recent grow to dry over 4 days. 4g dry after removing large stems. No fan leaves, almost all bud or sweet leaf.

Wanted to make coconut oil for brownies the way I usually do, but decided to try the partial decarb approach with the idea that the oil would hit the sweet spot during further cooking with food.

Toasted the weed (not ground up yet) in a 225f oven for about 35 minutes, turning it over once. This ensured complete drying as much as it attempted to begin decarb.

Put the dry toasted weed in the bottom of my small crockpot and poured just over 1/2 cup melted coconut oil over it. Turned it on low for 40 minutes. About every ten minutes, I mashed/stirred the weed gently (not trying to crush it to a fine pulp, just making sure the surface area was getting hit) and also checked the temperature with a candy thermometer (I had not been doing this before). The temperature increased slowly to 235f degrees at the last check. I then turned it off and let it cool just enough to handle the crock with my bare hands comfortably, and poured it through a cheesecloth lined potato ricer into small containers for the fridge.

The result was a nice springy light green, lighter than this has resulted in before, and the smell was not funky at all but almost sweetly perfume-like. Really pretty stuff, wish I'd taken a picture but wasn't thinking.

I made a 9in x 13in pan of brownies today using about 6 tablespoons (just over 1/3 cup) of the oil, baking at 325 for 33 minutes. Cut into 32 servings. We picked out two of the largest ones and started feeling them within 15 minutes. That was an hour ago and the buzz is increasing. This is one of the strongest pans of brownies I've made, I think. I do always add espresso powder to my brownies, so that could be accelerating the effects slightly.

SO: for med-high grade material, 4gram dry to 1/2 cup coconut oil would seem like a good ratio.
 
a9ymous

a9ymous

Well-Known Member
Grow Goddess said:
I believe you are right. I like to try to decarb my oil, RSO style, around 50-70%. After the oil is done I like to let it sit 6-8 weeks before use. Reason being, the 50-30% that is not decarbed or degraded, the THCa, will slowly naturally decarb over the 6-8 weeks. I keep it stored in a cool, dark, sealed environment. When I ingest the oil within 24 hours the buzz is much different, more comfortable and relaxing, less intense. After 72 hours, you start to notice the strength and the first increase in potency. Somewhere within the 2-8 week time frame, it suddenly does a change, almost overnight. It seems twice as strong. I don't care for surprises like that! At first I thought it was just me, but after more than three years of taking the oil consistently, and making it consistently, it has proven to be true time and time again. So I have done some research, and all of the research points in the same direction. If you want your oil decarbed to its highest potential, then after making it, I would sit on it for at least 6 weeks before ingesting.

To the OP: for ingestion purposes, I prefer RSO. Here is how I make it: https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30912-how-i-make-rso-concentrated.html
Click to expand...
Thanks GG. I expect to get some 190 proof later this week and will be trying a small batch of QWET (similar to what you do) to put into coconut capsules. Earlier in this thread I said I would start approaching cookables and edibles differently, making coconut and MCT oil for cooking only partially decarbed so that it would finish, and hopefully not go too far over the peak of effectiveness, in the cooked food. My first experiment with this turned out well (see last post).

However, I had been planning to decarb the QWET product completely before making the coconut capsules, so what you've said here is very interesting and I will definitely keep it in mind.
 
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