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unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
HGK420, I respect the right to laugh and make fun of anything -- homosexuality, rape, murder, famine, natural disaster, racism, mental handicap -- none of it is off limits for me, I can laugh at anything. The caveat to this however, for me anyway, is that the teasing not be derived from ignorance. And based on a full page of winding, incoherent, non-scientific, idealistic righteous indignation, maybe you should slow down for a minute to be sure that the homosexual guys that you're "close to" (whatever that means) aren't just giving you the polite pseudo-laugh because I couldn't imagine any jokes involving this issue coming from you being funny (no offense).

Homosexuality has been observed in over five hundred species of mammal from the mouse to the African buffalo, and from the giraffe to the primate (which is what we are). I personally believe that there are degrees of gayness (haha) -- some people are 100% born gay and some people can sway in and out of it -- it doesn't have to be one or the other. Either way, it's a 100% natural phenomena and it doesn't take being raped as child to nudge a particular set of genes into same sex attraction -- just one example -- "Several peer-reviewed studies have shown that men with older biological brothers are likelier to be gay than men with older sisters or no older siblings. The likelihood of being gay increases by about 33 percent with each additional older brother."

It's biology -- not ideology -- and it's really that simple whether you and your friends at church like it or not.

@st0wandgrow -- I like the way you think man! You're a smart cat.
 
unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
HGK420 Really man....no disrespect. I'm positive now that I misinterpreted some of what you were saying and where you were coming from. Didn't mean to come off like a dick. Just certain issues get the ol' debate thing stirring in your head, you know? Sorry about that.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
unwine99 said:
HGK420, I respect the right to laugh and make fun of anything -- homosexuality, rape, murder, famine, natural disaster, racism, mental handicap -- none of it is off limits for me, I can laugh at anything. The caveat to this however, for me anyway, is that the teasing not be derived from ignorance. And based on a full page of winding, incoherent, non-scientific, idealistic righteous indignation, maybe you should slow down for a minute to be sure that the homosexual guys that you're "close to" (whatever that means) aren't just giving you the polite pseudo-laugh because I couldn't imagine any jokes involving this issue coming from you being funny (no offense).

Homosexuality has been observed in over five hundred species of mammal from the mouse to the African buffalo, and from the giraffe to the primate (which is what we are). I personally believe that there are degrees of gayness (haha) -- some people are 100% born gay and some people can sway in and out of it -- it doesn't have to be one or the other. Either way, it's a 100% natural phenomena and it doesn't take being raped as child to nudge a particular set of genes into same sex attraction -- just one example -- "Several peer-reviewed studies have shown that men with older biological brothers are likelier to be gay than men with older sisters or no older siblings. The likelihood of being gay increases by about 33 percent with each additional older brother."

It's biology -- not ideology -- and it's really that simple whether you and your friends at church like it or not.

@st0wandgrow -- I like the way you think man! You're a smart cat.
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Zero of what you say has anything or do with science. This is a weed forum and I'm not about to type out hundreds of pages of expert cited testimony. There's many more reasons besides just being raped that's just one way that people have honestly came out and say they CHOOSE to not be with men because they were raped by their Moms boyfriend or vice versa.

I also listed traumatic psychological event, brain injury, diet, disease and viral infection among many other possible hormone imballance causes.

If people have "varying degrees of gayness" then it's measurable if they are "born that way" hell its even measurable if some environmental cause caused it.. Humans aren't just magically some way... We've already locked in on several brain/environment stereotypes that are very very accurate. (ie addicts)

There is no magical "just born that way" if they were born that way it's for some biological reason.... Now it's an entirely differently philosophical conversation wether or not being born gay for a biological reason would be considered a "birth defect"...

"It's biology -- not ideology -- and it's really that simple whether you and your friends at church like it or not." ---- your the one spouting off about magical sexual preferences.. It doesn't work that way.. Like you said it's biology not ideology.. And if it's biology then why is it happening? And is it right to let a 12 year old boy transition into a girl if his hormones are out of balance for any number of reasons?

This is way bigger then "varying degrees of gay" remember we have trans sexual of like 9 different varieties now so you can be into more then just the same sex.. They've coined 2 new terms... Poly sexual if you are into some but not all and pansexual if you are into all.... It's ridiculous.

Plus no one wants to bring up the mental illness side of this.. Suicide is pretty huge in the gay and trans community.. Some will say it's because they are ostricIzed... Others disagree and feel that many people with pre existing mental conditions end up being gay, trans, or poly or pan(Miley Cyrus style). What if a lot of these people that will swear they are gay also think the CIA is following them from time to time? Or they have extreme emotional instability? This isn't all but there's a good chunk that fall into this section, the party monster stereo type.

my own personal feeling is that it's way to soon to know a thing but my guess is there's gonna be about 1000 different reason why people decide to become anything other then heterosexual and as long as we aren't 10 people on an island trying to survive there's isn't a problem so long as all sides keep recruitment to nil. Beyond that no one can really know yet but like I said before there's some promising reports from the hormone imbalance region of this topic.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
unwine99 said:
HGK420 Really man....no disrespect. I'm positive now that I misinterpreted some of what you were saying and where you were coming from. Didn't mean to come off like a dick. Just certain issues get the ol' debate thing stirring in your head, you know? Sorry about that.
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Just noticed this one ..

All I'm saying is it's a crazy complicated topic..

This topic is much like one of my new favorite past times.. Debating atheists..

They all love them some facts but in reality the facts only point to "well shit.. Idk..." Lol

The world is so much bigger then any "ist" or "ism" or "ality".. This shits super complicated and to get all caught up and say "this Is the way it is" for almost ANYTHING is silly...

Like for example.. Did you guys know the brontosaurus DOES NOT exsist? There's pretty hot debate but it looks like it probably does not exsist... Ya I know righ?!! Next to T. rex probably the most known and loved dinosaur! And it doesn't exsist.

Pluto is another example.. I can go on and on.. Science is a liquid... As is philosophy... over time we learn.. And at this current juncture in time the only surety is to be unsure.. Or aka "scio me nescire"
 
unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
Of course if someone becomes gay, or if they were born gay, it was because of "biological reasons" -- that can be said for everything. How we look to how we behave is all determined by our genetic makeup coupled with the environmental stimuli that those genes ping off of. And yes, DNA and our brain are very complicated. No one is arguing that. That being said, for someone who asserts that "it's way to soon to know a thing" regarding homosexuality, you sure seem keen on categorizing its explanation as a mental illness or a hormonal imbalance or a disease or as the result of a traumatic event or something else with a negative connotation.

As I said before, it's scientific fact that homosexuality is observed in over 500 mammalian species, of which we are apart of -- it's normal, it's natural, and it has occurred all throughout the ages in every culture and on every continent (I'm positive it has probably happened on Antarctica too by now), and long before movies were "influencing our kids". With respect to LGBT suicide rates, even if there are other contributing factors in some cases, studies have shown fairly conclusively that bullying and social stigma increase those rates. White males kill themselves disproportionately more often than any other race -- perhaps white males should "leave the rest of the world alone" too.

All in all, at the very least, if it's "way to soon to know a thing" maybe we should suspend perpetuating the stigmatization of homosexuality by treating it as an illness that needs remedied or saying things like "for sure they should be left alone.. So long as they leave the rest of the world alone." until all the facts are in, no?

HGK420 said:
This topic is much like one of my new favorite past times.. Debating atheists..
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Well, you've killed two birds with one stone then.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
unwine99 said:
Of course if someone becomes gay, or if they were born gay, it was because of "biological reasons" -- that can be said for everything. How we look to how we behave is all determined by our genetic makeup coupled with the environmental stimuli that those genes ping off of. And yes, DNA and our brain are very complicated. No one is arguing that. That being said, for someone who asserts that "it's way to soon to know a thing" regarding homosexuality, you sure seem keen on categorizing its explanation as a mental illness or a hormonal imbalance or a disease or as the result of a traumatic event or something else with a negative connotation.

As I said before, it's scientific fact that homosexuality is observed in over 500 mammalian species, of which we are apart of -- it's normal, it's natural, and it has occurred all throughout the ages in every culture and on every continent (I'm positive it has probably happened on Antarctica too by now), and long before movies were "influencing our kids". With respect to LGBT suicide rates, even if there are other contributing factors in some cases, studies have shown fairly conclusively that bullying and social stigma increase those rates. White males kill themselves disproportionately more often than any other race -- perhaps white males should "leave the rest of the world alone" too.

All in all, at the very least, if it's "way to soon to know a thing" maybe we should suspend perpetuating the stigmatization of homosexuality by treating it as an illness that needs remedied or saying things like "for sure they should be left alone.. So long as they leave the rest of the world alone." until all the facts are in, no?



Well, you've killed two birds with one stone then.
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O il debate me some Christians too but they don't rely on facts so it's like trying to swim in quick sand... The more you struggle the more you sink.. Christians have all kinds of magical arguments... Atheists tho... Like facts and are just as ignorant as a Christian... That's why I debate them... It's good mental Kung fu and it de radicalizes some of these young angry chaps.


And no where did I ever say that anything I said was in stone.. It's all a liquid like I said. Those are just the fields of study that have actually seen some breakthroughs but like I said it's still early.


Have you guys heard the genetleman recently that won a boatload of money from a pharmaceutical company because their drug turned him gay? Ya he went on a rampage blowin dudes and staying out all night and absolutely shrugged off his life responsibilities.... Namely his family with a wife and a few kids, His awesome job, and his all around well put together life... He takes a new drug and BAM all he wants to do is blow guys...


Well he won his lawsuit and proved the drug made him do it... He was able to prove that the drug ruined his decision making ability. He was also gambling away his life savings during this time period. This experience falls into the category of "gay because it's wrong" he chose to be gay and to gamble and all the other debauchery because when his mind went through the decision making process something was switched from normal.. The decisions that normally would release fear and stress hormones now released happy hormones...... This is one small RECENT example that needs many much eyes studying every aspect of it, it's to soon to say anything but the gentleman in question is living HIS normal happy life with his family since he quit taking the drug. He said he has no more urges.


Urge control.. these are the neuro pathways I spoke on in earlier posts, just one of the possible reasons... And there is a reason.. Like you said.. It's biology..


You keep bringing up mammals and whatnot but we can't even begin to fathom the true social structure of these creatures. We can watch all we want but we don't know what they are saying to each other. Just imagine a scientists trying to study why people are gay but they can't talk to us? It wouldn't be oretty. "Well obviously the ones that dress the nicest have gay tendancies" is about all you'd get.

I literally gave you the Latin translation of the most eloquently and possibly the most important "I don't know" in history and you take as if everything I'm preaching is fact... I said several times that all this could change tomorrow but as it stands this is what it looks like... If you don't like that homosexuality might be able to be prevented if they so choose then so be it... If it's biological it's preventable there's no 2 ways about that. I'm not saying it is preventable or even that it should be prevented.. just that science is pointing in the direction of a possible marker/cause related to homosexual and trans behavior.



Also.. Ps.. Get off your high horse... Social justice warriors can all go suck a semi exhaust for all I care. You buncha butt hurt basement dwellers sad cause the big bad white man rules it all and you can never get ahead...get over yourself.. This is science.. It's proven that hormone imbalances are very obvious in more then 90% of tested cases... There's something going on there and to ignore that is just as silly as ignoring the higs bozon or any other cusp science. It's the infintile stages so far but in time we will understand how homosexuality manifests.... What then? What happens when it's as simple as a medicine and you won't feel urges for the same sex anymore? We aren't talking fucking Xmen here where they lose their super powers... No they just become straight and have to deal with the craziness of the opposite sex is all, what then?

Like I asked you before,.. If jazz could take some medicine and would no longer believe he is a little girl what would you do? Should you allow your 12 year old son, who's hormones are already all fucked up, make that choice?

This is a very mature topic that requires emotions to be left at the door.. If you wish to continue down this path of discussion please refrain from words like "feelings" and "care" because that's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm completely indifferent and only looking for the facts of the matter.
 
TheMan13

TheMan13

Well-Known Member
I've learned to avoid Republican and Democrat talking points (aka propaganda) alike, because logic and reason need not apply to those in a trance. Fuck identity politics and it's bullshit outrage, it's time to get back to fixing the actual problems of Government not manufacture them into the filibuster it has become!

 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
TheMan13 said:
I've learned to avoid Republican and Democrat talking points (aka propaganda) alike, because logic and reason need not apply to those in a trance. Fuck identity politics and it's bullshit outrage, it's time to get back to fixing the actual problems of Government not manufacture them into the filibuster it has become!

Click to expand...

have you seen the insanity in Missouri?.... "Weaponized safe zones"

I agree that taking any 1 side is ignorant.. Democrats are just as useless as republicans.. Maybe even doubly so because they spend so much time talking about feelings....

Bernie sanders us the new one that makes me wanna punch myself in the face... So many entitled little assholes (I'm a millennial don't forget) running around saying "gimme gimme gimme" and uncle Bernie says "here here here" so they love him... Big mistake if he gets power. Don't get me wrong.. We need to arrest power from the groups that have it now but starting some blend of Stalin and ghandi isn't gonna do it.. It'll just crumble what we are trying to take power over.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
"Alchemical fraud" -- I like that

im a big believer that "magic" exists... in its true form(aleister Crowley style).. Alchemical fraud is such an early 90's grunge way to refer to it lol.. Mind manipulation through eliciting emotions and hormones! Aka the news, most music, movies, TV, and most of pop culture in general.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
HGK420 said:
O il debate me some Christians too but they don't rely on facts so it's like trying to swim in quick sand... The more you struggle the more you sink.. Christians have all kinds of magical arguments... Atheists tho... Like facts and are just as ignorant as a Christian... That's why I debate them... It's good mental Kung fu and it de radicalizes some of these young angry chaps.


And no where did I ever say that anything I said was in stone.. It's all a liquid like I said. Those are just the fields of study that have actually seen some breakthroughs but like I said it's still early.


Have you guys heard the genetleman recently that won a boatload of money from a pharmaceutical company because their drug turned him gay? Ya he went on a rampage blowin dudes and staying out all night and absolutely shrugged off his life responsibilities.... Namely his family with a wife and a few kids, His awesome job, and his all around well put together life... He takes a new drug and BAM all he wants to do is blow guys...


Well he won his lawsuit and proved the drug made him do it... He was able to prove that the drug ruined his decision making ability. He was also gambling away his life savings during this time period. This experience falls into the category of "gay because it's wrong" he chose to be gay and to gamble and all the other debauchery because when his mind went through the decision making process something was switched from normal.. The decisions that normally would release fear and stress hormones now released happy hormones...... This is one small RECENT example that needs many much eyes studying every aspect of it, it's to soon to say anything but the gentleman in question is living HIS normal happy life with his family since he quit taking the drug. He said he has no more urges.


Urge control.. these are the neuro pathways I spoke on in earlier posts, just one of the possible reasons... And there is a reason.. Like you said.. It's biology..


You keep bringing up mammals and whatnot but we can't even begin to fathom the true social structure of these creatures. We can watch all we want but we don't know what they are saying to each other. Just imagine a scientists trying to study why people are gay but they can't talk to us? It wouldn't be oretty. "Well obviously the ones that dress the nicest have gay tendancies" is about all you'd get.

I literally gave you the Latin translation of the most eloquently and possibly the most important "I don't know" in history and you take as if everything I'm preaching is fact... I said several times that all this could change tomorrow but as it stands this is what it looks like... If you don't like that homosexuality might be able to be prevented if they so choose then so be it... If it's biological it's preventable there's no 2 ways about that. I'm not saying it is preventable or even that it should be prevented.. just that science is pointing in the direction of a possible marker/cause related to homosexual and trans behavior.



Also.. Ps.. Get off your high horse... Social justice warriors can all go suck a semi exhaust for all I care. You buncha butt hurt basement dwellers sad cause the big bad white man rules it all and you can never get ahead...get over yourself.. This is science.. It's proven that hormone imbalances are very obvious in more then 90% of tested cases... There's something going on there and to ignore that is just as silly as ignoring the higs bozon or any other cusp science. It's the infintile stages so far but in time we will understand how homosexuality manifests.... What then? What happens when it's as simple as a medicine and you won't feel urges for the same sex anymore? We aren't talking fucking Xmen here where they lose their super powers... No they just become straight and have to deal with the craziness of the opposite sex is all, what then?

Like I asked you before,.. If jazz could take some medicine and would no longer believe he is a little girl what would you do? Should you allow your 12 year old son, who's hormones are already all fucked up, make that choice?

This is a very mature topic that requires emotions to be left at the door.. If you wish to continue down this path of discussion please refrain from words like "feelings" and "care" because that's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm completely indifferent and only looking for the facts of the matter.
Click to expand...
What's there to debate with an atheist? Being an atheist only means that you reject the notion that there is a god. That's it. So unless you believe that there is a god, there wouldn't be much to discuss.
 
unwine99

unwine99

Well-Known Member
You're rambling -- you're talking in circles -- and once again, you've missed the point. Is there a possibility and even a likelihood that one day it could be "preventable"? Absolutely. So too will red hair and short stature. So what? The point is, no peer respected scientists are even suggesting that being a homosexual is a defect in need of curative treatment. They, along with the majority of the free world, are evolving away from that antiquated sociological state of mind and into one of more objective understanding.

You say that you're not suggesting it needs to be prevented yet your entire premise has been predicated upon a list of problems that homosexuals supposedly have, terrible things that supposedly may cause it, punctuated with a warning that they are recruiting and influencing children through movies and asserting that they need to stay away from the rest of the world. The questions you're asking about the possibility of making gay people straight are irrelevant because the only people inquiring into such silly questions are religious fundamentalists, fascist states, and you.

PS, I would love to take a look at that peer reviewed scientific study stating that "It's proven that hormone imbalances are very obvious in more then 90% of tested cases." :rolleyes:

HGK420 said:
If you wish to continue down this path of discussion please refrain from words like "feelings" and "care" because that's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm completely indifferent and only looking for the facts of the matter.
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Which makes your phony compassion toward the subject and the children involved that much more vomit inducing. Oh and btw, you were the only one who used those words.
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
What's there to debate with an atheist? Being an atheist only means that you reject the notion that there is a god. That's it. So unless you believe that there is a god, there wouldn't be much to discuss.
Click to expand...

How do you know there isn't a god? It requires just as much faith to say there is no God as it does to say there is a god..

Atheism is ignorance to just how big the universe and our consciousness really is..

The only possible answer is "scio me nescire" or "if I know one thing, it is that I know nothing."



And ps sorry for the delay... Been murdering some cervids
 
HGK420

HGK420

Well-Known Member
unwine99 said:
You're rambling -- you're talking in circles -- and once again, you've missed the point. Is there a possibility and even a likelihood that one day it could be "preventable"? Absolutely. So too will red hair and short stature. So what? The point is, no peer respected scientists are even suggesting that being a homosexual is a defect in need of curative treatment. They, along with the majority of the free world, are evolving away from that antiquated sociological state of mind and into one of more objective understanding.

You say that you're not suggesting it needs to be prevented yet your entire premise has been predicated upon a list of problems that homosexuals supposedly have, terrible things that supposedly may cause it, punctuated with a warning that they are recruiting and influencing children through movies and asserting that they need to stay away from the rest of the world. The questions you're asking about the possibility of making gay people straight are irrelevant because the only people inquiring into such silly questions are religious fundamentalists, fascist states, and you.

PS, I would love to take a look at that peer reviewed scientific study stating that "It's proven that hormone imbalances are very obvious in more then 90% of tested cases." :rolleyes:


Which makes your phony compassion toward the subject and the children involved that much more vomit inducing. Oh and btw, you were the only one who used those words.
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Once again your completely missing the point and your falling into this "crybully" nonsense... Do you attend the university of Missouri by chance?

Anyway I bid you adieu, I've had a lot of time spilling blood these last few days and I've come to the conclusion that the only minds I have to worry about are my own families... There's nothing like reaching up elbo deep into the rib cage of a big ole white tail while it's still hot and tearing out the lungs by the esophagus to give you some perspective.. The world is fucked... My families not.. So far... My mission is successful.. It's the fathers of the rest of these ridiculous people that failed and not my business or within my ability to change that... What's that thing the Catholics say? Give me the strength to change what I can and the wisdom to see what I can't? For some silly bitches that sure makes some sense..
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
HGK420 said:
How do you know there isn't a god? It requires just as much faith to say there is no God as it does to say there is a god..

Atheism is ignorance to just how big the universe and our consciousness really is..

The only possible answer is "scio me nescire" or "if I know one thing, it is that I know nothing."



And ps sorry for the delay... Been murdering some cervids
Click to expand...

Science? It certainly doesn't connect all of the dots (yet), but it provides a great deal more proof than religion does.

Atheism is ignorance? I'd say that comment is ignorant. Religion provides zero evidence aside from a book of fairy tales penned by a bunch of goat herders a couple thousand years ago. They have no answers to how we came to be, so it must be a magic man living in the clouds. Or maybe a magic dragon? Sphagetti monster? Santa Clause? Gotta be some kind of magic for sure. :roll:

I'm perfectly willing to admit that I don't know for certain. However, looking at all of the evidence I'm pretty convinced that this isn't the result of some mythical being that has the same story, and birth date of dozens of "gods" prior to the spawning of the Chrisitan version.
 
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