Recirculating DWC Question
- Thread starter gardenman
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jimmyc
Active Member
I depends if the water will be sitting in the buckets for long or not. The longer they sit the more chance for algae or fungus growth. If your buckets have water in them for anymore than I would say 2 hours, you may want to consider either air stones for each or a anti-fungal/algae supplement to add to your reservoir.
Yes, the more oxygen the better. You want each bucket to be filled with bubbles or your roots
could drown. A couple of air pumps from a pet store and a good size air stone should do the trick.
They make disc shaped air stones that are perfect for sitting in the bottom of a bucket.
could drown. A couple of air pumps from a pet store and a good size air stone should do the trick.
They make disc shaped air stones that are perfect for sitting in the bottom of a bucket.
fitzyno1
Well-Known Member
An airstone in each pod/bucket is neccessary. The bubbles from the air stone/curtain churns up the nutrient (keeping nutrients moving in the pod or rez) keeping the solution well mixed. Also the bubbles bursting on the surface of the nutrient solution mists the roots that aren't submerged in the nutrient solution. The plants in the pods that don't have air stones will become smaller than the plants that do have airstones, meaning your top canopy won't be uniform.
Simply, the more air bubbles the more the plants thrive.
Realclosetgreenz
Well-Known Member
Ive seen a grow op where a 36gl tub was used as a reservoir, with 8 5gl buckets. Two air pumps one for the res and one that powered only four stones placed every other bucket. All the bucket were in a line and connected at the bottom of all the containers which led back to the res were a pump re-circulated it. All the pumps were synchronized harmonically for awesome growth.There was also a pump in the res and manifold that laid across the top of the buckets.
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mr.bowlsworth
Member
u could tee off your line coming out of the recirculating line and have an adjustable valve that serves as a flow restrictor and aerates ur nutrient solution
Realclosetgreenz
Well-Known Member
Good idea,You could even have the solution fall thru 4' or so of air and left running.
mr.bowlsworth
Member
where's my rep,bro?
jcommerce
Well-Known Member
I have one airstone in my reservoir only (near the pump intake). No need for individual air in each bucket if your main pump is strong enough. You want the whole thing to turn over 7 - 10 times per hour, more if possible. I calculate that mine is turning over about 12 times per hour and they're getting plenty of O2.
Treeth
Well-Known Member
-Okay,
my question is...
How is a full DWC then not generally recognized as the most... beneficial method of growing ?, if it is undeed such an easy operation to provide all the oxygen roots need?
Specifically, why/how is aero seemingly superior to a well designed DWC?
Or a drip fed system?
Is it more about ease, practicality, and 'safety'... Or is there something I'm missing.
Why use anything other than water as a medium?
my question is...
How is a full DWC then not generally recognized as the most... beneficial method of growing ?, if it is undeed such an easy operation to provide all the oxygen roots need?
Specifically, why/how is aero seemingly superior to a well designed DWC?
Or a drip fed system?
Is it more about ease, practicality, and 'safety'... Or is there something I'm missing.
Why use anything other than water as a medium?
jake43
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that aeroponics is (supposedly) better because the spray creates a fine mist that allows the roots to uptake the nutrients more efficiently. The trade off is a much more "touchy" system, where small problem with the environment create large problems for the plants. Your plants can die in a matter of hours if say the pump goes out.
My two cents...
mr.bowlsworth
Member
aeroponics is superior because of the simple fact that plants have access to all the oxygen they could ever want.Thats why dwc needs airstones to be effective,otherwise,plants would drown.Aeroponically speaking,plants have higher nutrient uptake levels because of all the o2 and food available,hope this helps.
Treeth
Well-Known Member
alright, then why in DWC, do so many people only shoot for a DO which just sustains the plants? Over and over I read people who proclaim that you barely need any action at all to keep enough oxygen in the mix, and anything past that is diminishing returns.
But what about something like this:
Granted, this is generally used in industrial separation processes, but
How isn't this just as good as hanging the plant in air, and spraying water at it?
The two arguments:
-Is that the mechanical action of the mister, making yet still relatively large droplets of water, somehow makes it easier for the roots to draw in the solution? [Don't bubbles also break surface tension?]
-And, the closer to being dry, the better, for the most O2 intake as possible. [But do you see that pic?!]
Alright.
And yet...
-micronized, ultrasonic fog doesn't work!, even though it is the logical ends of this... equation: more air, finer water.
I personally tried it desperately, using a high end humidifier pumping in thick fog nearly 24/7,
even with the wetting agent Wet Betty, (Which I heartily recommend for DWC as well)...and the roots did grow those fine, area increasing hairs which everyone talks about,
However, they disappeared as soon as the root mass aged and grew larger, turning them into the "feeder", drinking type roots, when the mass collected enough of the fog condensate for it to "run". So it may as well have been DWC at that point, or NFT, or aero. No?
{and If i did not run the humidifier constantly, the plant would start to droop damn near immediately. It was entirely too touchy. Not to mention the damage the incredibly light nute solution did to the humidifier. It had a titanium transducer too!, perhaps it could work with one of those expensive... cycle timers? on off on off on off,.... The roots and the plant did not enjoy anything less than 100% humidity in the res mind you}
-----------
So, in conclusion,
Is there some sort of optimal range for maximum uptake?, of O2 avaliability, and physical size of water droplets?
(And do aero roots look significantly different from DWC roots?)
Thanks everyone.
Hope i was articulate enough.
But what about something like this:
Granted, this is generally used in industrial separation processes, but
How isn't this just as good as hanging the plant in air, and spraying water at it?
The two arguments:
-Is that the mechanical action of the mister, making yet still relatively large droplets of water, somehow makes it easier for the roots to draw in the solution? [Don't bubbles also break surface tension?]
-And, the closer to being dry, the better, for the most O2 intake as possible. [But do you see that pic?!]
Alright.
And yet...
-micronized, ultrasonic fog doesn't work!, even though it is the logical ends of this... equation: more air, finer water.
I personally tried it desperately, using a high end humidifier pumping in thick fog nearly 24/7,
even with the wetting agent Wet Betty, (Which I heartily recommend for DWC as well)...and the roots did grow those fine, area increasing hairs which everyone talks about,
However, they disappeared as soon as the root mass aged and grew larger, turning them into the "feeder", drinking type roots, when the mass collected enough of the fog condensate for it to "run". So it may as well have been DWC at that point, or NFT, or aero. No?
{and If i did not run the humidifier constantly, the plant would start to droop damn near immediately. It was entirely too touchy. Not to mention the damage the incredibly light nute solution did to the humidifier. It had a titanium transducer too!, perhaps it could work with one of those expensive... cycle timers? on off on off on off,.... The roots and the plant did not enjoy anything less than 100% humidity in the res mind you}
-----------
So, in conclusion,
Is there some sort of optimal range for maximum uptake?, of O2 avaliability, and physical size of water droplets?
(And do aero roots look significantly different from DWC roots?)
Thanks everyone.
Hope i was articulate enough.
Realclosetgreenz
Well-Known Member
The only way to distinguish separation of a DWC and Aeroponic Systems is, #1 Only TRUE aeroponic systems offer a great advantage in nutrient/oxygen uptake as of water droplet size and should be categorized as aeroponic. A DWC/Aero system(Low pressure nozzles) has little advantage over DWC I agree. The factors involved in differentiation consist of System maintenance, ease of use,performance and personal preference.
Hey fellows. I know a little trick for extra aeration. If your using pumps in your system, then you can purposely add a little air to the intake side of the pump under water. I have done this with a little piece of airline tubing pushed into, or attached very close to the intake side of the water pump and an adjustable valve out in the open if needed. It causes the pump to take in the air, and then the blades in the pump churn up the air into small bubbles inside the piping. Just a little tip for some free aeration. Everyone likes the word FREE, right? Lol. In my experience, I have even seen the little bubbles clear clogs in the nozzles while their sputtering out. Later!
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of miss-understanding about Aeroponics and DWC.
True aeroponic systems aren't really a practical method for plants with large root systems and require 24/7 monitoring.
DWC are awesome in both their effectiveness and simplicity. Contrary to popular belief air stones do little to oxygenate water. In fact, it is only their ability to stir the water and bring it into contact with the surface air that oxygenates water. An aquarium power head or just a small pump stirring the water in the resevouir will oxygenate more than the air stones. That being said, having air stones can't hurt and give you a good backup in case of pump failure.
If you live in an upstairs apartment you want to avoid pumping large amounts of water around in case a hose blows, so bubble disks in a DWC work very well.
Instead of 5 gall buckets, I would consider the 31gal Rubbermaid tub with 4 staggered holes. Also, cover the top with Reflectix or aluminum foil to block radiant heat and keep your solution cool.
Almost forgot to mention this. Foggers do not work! Foggers only create a fog of pure water, leaving the nutes in solution. You are basicaly steam distilling your nut solution when you use a fogger.
True aeroponic systems aren't really a practical method for plants with large root systems and require 24/7 monitoring.
DWC are awesome in both their effectiveness and simplicity. Contrary to popular belief air stones do little to oxygenate water. In fact, it is only their ability to stir the water and bring it into contact with the surface air that oxygenates water. An aquarium power head or just a small pump stirring the water in the resevouir will oxygenate more than the air stones. That being said, having air stones can't hurt and give you a good backup in case of pump failure.
If you live in an upstairs apartment you want to avoid pumping large amounts of water around in case a hose blows, so bubble disks in a DWC work very well.
Instead of 5 gall buckets, I would consider the 31gal Rubbermaid tub with 4 staggered holes. Also, cover the top with Reflectix or aluminum foil to block radiant heat and keep your solution cool.
Almost forgot to mention this. Foggers do not work! Foggers only create a fog of pure water, leaving the nutes in solution. You are basicaly steam distilling your nut solution when you use a fogger.