Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
Dank...did you get stung :oops:
Click to expand...
Na, but damm I forgot how much cow shit stinks, but when I give thought to it, it becomes the smell of MONEY!:o(::mrgreen::lol:

I am so freaking pumped, site is near being cleared and soon leveled. Then a large green house to provide about 512 square feet for vermi compositng and hopefully about 128 feet for vermi culture. Once established then I will work on larger scale using outdoor windrow, I want to ensure I have a indoor system in place that will be the little stean engine that could until the bigger diesel one comes online.

Onsite will be three Tin Man retort systems incorporating the double barrel technique using a 30 gallon in a 55 gallon. for bio-char production which I hope to have going this weekend. I've even got some local growers who want to outsource their soil mixing to me so they can focus on other aspects of their operations. So I am freaking stoked! I've also looked into state certified organic label $400 application $200 a year to renew. However only need 95 percent output to qualify and certain non organic items are allowed. So hopefully I can swing that certification and that should bump up product value and revenue!:-o:lol::D:-D:wink:;);)(:

DankSwag
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Hello. Just thought I would let everyone know I have a little side by side grow going. No rules or anything, all in fun, wish I could give out prizes to the winner, but its against forum rules. Anyways I would like if everyone could join. I also added a side bonus. Lets see who can get those 3 ounce monster cola's or more ;) 3 ounce contest thread -> https://www.rollitup.org/p/10396937/

side by side thread --> https://www.rollitup.org/p/10392841/
 
medichronic

medichronic

Active Member
ok so I am wanting to give the ROLS a try I have a few 7gal pots that had 1/2 pre bagged tga super soil and 1/2 roots 707 after harvest I cut the stock of at ground level put a good handful of red wiglers 2 cups local compost and 2 cups EWC, I wet with a good compost/EWC tea, that was about 1 month ago. my question is what more do I need to do to the soil and how long to wait before I can give this method a try?
 
safety meeting

safety meeting

Active Member
DANKSWAG said:
That my friend is a Stinging Nettle Patch, supposedly there is some type of native american ginseng plant around these part of the woods too, but it is dangerous to handle, if a barb from it gets in your skin it will eventually make its way into your blood stream and could even damage your heart and cause death. Its a power ginseng plant but one should take extreme care when handling it. If I find them I post pics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urtica_dioica

DankSwag
Click to expand...
The indian ginseng you speak of is called Devils Club and it is in the ginger family, nasty little bitch.
 
L

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
First and foremost, amazing thread guys. I really appreciate it.

I'm about to build a no till bed, but have never grown in soil before. I'm a hydro guy who is sick of mixing nutes, ph'ing everything, and crawling around wires and multiple reservoirs in a cramped room, so I'm making the switch. However, I'm confused by certain things. I'm gonna go with a mix that was posted on the first page of this thread.

Soil Base - Per Cubic Foot

33% Priemier Peat (brand name) I buy this for 9.99 at lowes 3cfu
33% Pumice/Perlite/Lava rock (I'm using perlite cause I have much on hand)
33% Combination of Compost and vermicompost.

Amendment Mix
1/2 cup Organic Neem or Karanja Meal
1/2 cup Organic Kelp Meal

Rock Dust Mix
4 cups Basalt & Glacial Rock Dust Mix

Lime Mix
1/2 cup Gypsum
1/2 cup Crab Meal

I'll probably throw some biochar and little bit of alfalfa in there too. (recommendations on how much to throw in are more than welcome). But what I'm really having trouble understanding is how you guys apply other nutes such as guanos. Is it always with a tea since it isn't in the soil? Do you top dress after the grow is under way? And if you do topdress, will it stay in the soil for the next run meaning I won't have to topdress in the future or will I need to reapply it every run? Or do you just foliar with it and cut it off once buds form? And how often are tea applications suggested? I've seen once a week suggested, but is more better?

For the record, the bed I plan on building will be 4x4. Thanks in advance. I really appreciate this thread and your future responses.
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
legaleyes13 said:
First and foremost, amazing thread guys. I really appreciate it.

I'm about to build a no till bed, but have never grown in soil before. I'm a hydro guy who is sick of mixing nutes, ph'ing everything, and crawling around wires and multiple reservoirs in a cramped room, so I'm making the switch. However, I'm confused by certain things. I'm gonna go with a mix that was posted on the first page of this thread.

Soil Base - Per Cubic Foot

33% Priemier Peat (brand name) I buy this for 9.99 at lowes 3cfu
33% Pumice/Perlite/Lava rock (I'm using perlite cause I have much on hand)
33% Combination of Compost and vermicompost.

Amendment Mix
1/2 cup Organic Neem or Karanja Meal
1/2 cup Organic Kelp Meal

Rock Dust Mix
4 cups Basalt & Glacial Rock Dust Mix

Lime Mix
1/2 cup Gypsum
1/2 cup Crab Meal

I'll probably throw some biochar and little bit of alfalfa in there too. (recommendations on how much to throw in are more than welcome). But what I'm really having trouble understanding is how you guys apply other nutes such as guanos. Is it always with a tea since it isn't in the soil? Do you top dress after the grow is under way? And if you do topdress, will it stay in the soil for the next run meaning I won't have to topdress in the future or will I need to reapply it every run? Or do you just foliar with it and cut it off once buds form? And how often are tea applications suggested? I've seen once a week suggested, but is more better?

For the record, the bed I plan on building will be 4x4. Thanks in advance. I really appreciate this thread and your future responses.
Click to expand...
Some folks will build there soil initially to take them from veg to flower and the only thing you add is H20 and care. I prefer this for I too grew tired of keeping up with the mechanics of using a hydro, in fact I learned how to use hydro and soil in a system called PHOGS (Passive Hydroponic Organic Grow System), See my links. So I get the best of both, no feeding and no watering. I let my plants water and feed themselves. To me I found it easier just to recycle my soil but amending again with all the macro, micro and trace nutrients via organic products, but that is because I don't use large containers which IMHO work best for ROLS

ROLS is a way to maintain soils once organically mixed and cooked for use. It keeps the biology of the soil in the container and requires larger containers for I have tried this in one to two gallon pots and it is not suited for such a small space, for essentially you will be planting clover cover crops and legumes, one to fixate nitrogen in the soil the other to bring nitrogen out of the air which in turn to be used as green manure for you will uproot and allow to decompose. ROLS is where large pots of soil don't have to be dumped out of their containers and remixed. They remain in the containers and teas and top dressings and such are used to ensure the soil stays rich in micro life and nutrients for the soil. It is simply a way of keeping the established fungi chains and bacteria prospering and growing for they will feed the next plant to be transplanted into this living soil, in order to do so you cannot cook the soil again.

The key here is you CANNOT ADD HOT manures and meals and certain amendments that will cause the soil PH balance to alter, unless you intend to start fresh say you think you have a bad foul smell in your soil (anaerobic bacteria) bad guys, this is where cooking it will do good again.

Because of this, manures should be composted, thus the EWC or used in a tea not in soild normal state they have to be diluted and this is were compost teas come into play. ROLS to me is an advanced way of growing and you will need time under your belt to understand what your plants are telling you about the soil they are in.

It would be best to have you start building your soil, you can use recipes well know for how they will grow a plant well from start (veg) to finish. Such as Subcools which everyone pretty much starts with then tweaks it to make their own.

Seedlings and clones have to have light soil mix, your typical Black Gold Organic Soil mix with Worm castings will do.

Once you've made your hot mix, mixed and water well, keep in warm place maintain moisture keep soil covered to allow bacteria to grow, you should see a Tnice white bread of bacteria do not scrape it of, turn it into the soil. The warmer faster the hot items will decompose into the mix with the help of bacteria, this is where you can add your own if you chose to create LAB (lactoe acid bacillus) and spray into soil mix to accelerated the decomposition of the hot materials, making the soil ready for use as super soil.

Always add your Fungi after soil is cook and PH is stabilized back to 6.9 - 7.0, building a fungal web in the soil is the apex for some in ROLS. The symbiotic relationship between plant roots and fungi is a treasure of nutrient path ways for a plant to thrive on.

Hope that helps provide a little more clarity, so you must cook a great soil that will take your plants from veg to flower to harvest. Then see if you can keep that soil biology going using ROLS methods. I would keep some premixed soil handy in case you find ROLS requires to much time and attention.

DankSwag
 
L

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
Some folks will build there soil initially to take them from veg to flower and the only thing you add is H20 and care. I prefer this for I too grew tired of keeping up with the mechanics of using a hydro, in fact I learned how to use hydro and soil in a system called PHOGS (Passive Hydroponic Organic Grow System), See my links. So I get the best of both, no feeding and no watering. I let my plants water and feed themselves. To me I found it easier just to recycle my soil but amending again with all the macro, micro and trace nutrients via organic products, but that is because I don't use large containers which IMHO work best for ROLS

ROLS is a way to maintain soils once organically mixed and cooked for use. It keeps the biology of the soil in the container and requires larger containers for I have tried this in one to two gallon pots and it is not suited for such a small space, for essentially you will be planting clover cover crops and legumes, one to fixate nitrogen in the soil the other to bring nitrogen out of the air which in turn to be used as green manure for you will uproot and allow to decompose. ROLS is where large pots of soil don't have to be dumped out of their containers and remixed. They remain in the containers and teas and top dressings and such are used to ensure the soil stays rich in micro life and nutrients for the soil. It is simply a way of keeping the established fungi chains and bacteria prospering and growing for they will feed the next plant to be transplanted into this living soil, in order to do so you cannot cook the soil again.

The key here is you CANNOT ADD HOT manures and meals and certain amendments that will cause the soil PH balance to alter, unless you intend to start fresh say you think you have a bad foul smell in your soil (anaerobic bacteria) bad guys, this is where cooking it will do good again.

Because of this, manures should be composted, thus the EWC or used in a tea not in soild normal state they have to be diluted and this is were compost teas come into play. ROLS to me is an advanced way of growing and you will need time under your belt to understand what your plants are telling you about the soil they are in.

It would be best to have you start building your soil, you can use recipes well know for how they will grow a plant well from start (veg) to finish. Such as Subcools which everyone pretty much starts with then tweaks it to make their own.

Seedlings and clones have to have light soil mix, your typical Black Gold Organic Soil mix with Worm castings will do.

Once you've made your hot mix, mixed and water well, keep in warm place maintain moisture keep soil covered to allow bacteria to grow, you should see a Tnice white bread of bacteria do not scrape it of, turn it into the soil. The warmer faster the hot items will decompose into the mix with the help of bacteria, this is where you can add your own if you chose to create LAB (lactoe acid bacillus) and spray into soil mix to accelerated the decomposition of the hot materials, making the soil ready for use as super soil.

Always add your Fungi after soil is cook and PH is stabilized back to 6.9 - 7.0, building a fungal web in the soil is the apex for some in ROLS. The symbiotic relationship between plant roots and fungi is a treasure of nutrient path ways for a plant to thrive on.

Hope that helps provide a little more clarity, so you must cook a great soil that will take your plants from veg to flower to harvest. Then see if you can keep that soil biology going using ROLS methods. I would keep some premixed soil handy in case you find ROLS requires to much time and attention.

DankSwag
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response man, but I'm still a little confused. Is the mix I posted up (that's also posted on the first page of this thread) considered a good mix? I'm fairly sure that I'll have to add other amendments via teas and foliar, but that is alright with me. Fulvic, silica, and aloe w/ every watering and foliar application is fine w/ me and isn't too much work at all. But is there more to this than I currently realize? Are there other nutes that I should add besides just silica, fulvic acid and aloe...? Pest prevention is one thing, and I know what to do there, but I'm really just talking about feeding the plant?

How would I add guanos, or steamed bone meal, or whatever? From what I gather from your post, it's a bad idea to topdress w/ hot stuff like guanos? So should I just make a tea out of em and water w/ it? I don't have the option of starting w/ a supersoil and working my way up to ROLS due to certain circumstances, so I have to dive right in.

Thanks again.
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
legaleyes13 said:
Thanks for the response man, but I'm still a little confused. Is the mix I posted up (that's also posted on the first page of this thread) considered a good mix? I'm fairly sure that I'll have to add other amendments via teas and foliar, but that is alright with me. Fulvic, silica, and aloe w/ every watering and foliar application is fine w/ me and isn't too much work at all. But is there more to this than I currently realize? Are there other nutes that I should add besides just silica, fulvic acid and aloe...? Pest prevention is one thing, and I know what to do there, but I'm really just talking about feeding the plant?

How would I add guanos, or steamed bone meal, or whatever? From what I gather from your post, it's a bad idea to topdress w/ hot stuff like guanos? So should I just make a tea out of em and water w/ it? I don't have the option of starting w/ a supersoil and working my way up to ROLS due to certain circumstances, so I have to dive right in.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
If you have to dive right in and can't begin by mixing a complete soil and letting it cook. Then you will have to acquire some already made.
If you mix something together with hot amendments such as guano and blood or bone meals you must let it cook (decompose) or you will kill your transplants.
Therefore since you don't have the option at the moment to mix a blend to your specifications I recommend you use:;

GARDNER & BLOOME® EDEN VALLEY BLEND POTTING SOIL
Contains top-shelf organic ingredients like kapok seed meal, seabird guano, and sardine meal to help plants grow vigorously while developing abundant flowers & fruit.
High coconut coir content provides an environmentally sustainable amendment that improves drainage & moisture retention.
Crab chitin helps to naturally control fungus gnats and other soil borne pests.

Typically again hot items are adding at the beginning when there is time to cook the soil and allow soil to neutralize to a 7.0 PH
Yes you would have to dilute guano in tea, however in ROLS the idea is to add organic amendments that will not disturb the balance in the PH.
Therefore this is where kelp meal, alpha meal, crab, fish and other organic amendments with lower NPK values as to not alter the soil PH.

If you look more at what it takes to build a complete soil, i.e. Subcool's soil recipe you will get a better understanding of what organic amendments provide the Macro nutrients NPK, and the micro nutrients such as calcium and magnesium along with what can provide the trace elements as well.

So if you don't have the time to build a soil and learn your inputs properly, then purchase a complete soil as I recommended then start your ROLS processes as you desire.

PS there is a layering technique when building soil that you don't have time to allow it to cook. You'll need to do some more reading on this technique you can burn your plants if you don't know what your doing.

DankSwag
 
Mohican

Mohican

Well-Known Member
They were about ready to get out of their 1 gal pots:




I was out of town for a month and when I returned everything had changed.

Next pic I have of them is after they stretched - Mulanje Gold 100% Sativa:




Cheers,
Mo
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Very nice MO, I see you have incorporated a form of passive hydroponics setting the cloth soil pots on top of pumice in an outer container. I like!:bigjoint:

Well that explains why they survived the hot soil, they were established and roots could stay within already established soil till they eased themselves into it.
Kind of like getting in hot shower, as you strip and get closer to the heat coming of the water you body accumulates as opposed to being tossed into from the cold.

DankSwag
PS Can't wait to get my 24 by 48 foot green house up on my organic farm. Then I will really get a chance to do some soil mixology and hopefully develop a process where I can take spent soil and blend into my own ultra balanced organic high octane soil mix to keep the cation action happening to its maximum potential as the guest (vegetation) enjoy the hospitable surroundings from their host (my soil) for they shall be contently rooted. Mi tierra es tu tierra!
 
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L

legaleyes13

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
If you have to dive right in and can't begin by mixing a complete soil and letting it cook. Then you will have to acquire some already made.
If you mix something together with hot amendments such as guano and blood or bone meals you must let it cook (decompose) or you will kill your transplants.
Therefore since you don't have the option at the moment to mix a blend to your specifications I recommend you use:;

GARDNER & BLOOME® EDEN VALLEY BLEND POTTING SOIL
Contains top-shelf organic ingredients like kapok seed meal, seabird guano, and sardine meal to help plants grow vigorously while developing abundant flowers & fruit.
High coconut coir content provides an environmentally sustainable amendment that improves drainage & moisture retention.
Crab chitin helps to naturally control fungus gnats and other soil borne pests.

Typically again hot items are adding at the beginning when there is time to cook the soil and allow soil to neutralize to a 7.0 PH
Yes you would have to dilute guano in tea, however in ROLS the idea is to add organic amendments that will not disturb the balance in the PH.
Therefore this is where kelp meal, alpha meal, crab, fish and other organic amendments with lower NPK values as to not alter the soil PH.

If you look more at what it takes to build a complete soil, i.e. Subcool's soil recipe you will get a better understanding of what organic amendments provide the Macro nutrients NPK, and the micro nutrients such as calcium and magnesium along with what can provide the trace elements as well.

So if you don't have the time to build a soil and learn your inputs properly, then purchase a complete soil as I recommended then start your ROLS processes as you desire.

PS there is a layering technique when building soil that you don't have time to allow it to cook. You'll need to do some more reading on this technique you can burn your plants if you don't know what your doing.

DankSwag
Click to expand...
I have time to let it cook, but I have to source the material and start mixing it within the next 2 weeks. That doesn't give me much time to get the amount of research that I would typically want before starting a completely new system, and that's what I mean by dive right in.

So, do you think the mix I posted is decent? And how are guano and other hot fertz used in ROLS? You're giving me the sense that they aren't used at all because of whatever ph issues they cause.
 
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