Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I can agree with you partially. Certain hydro methods can be a pain. I ran ebb and flow tables for a while and that was pretty hands on. You're off base on the soil/synthetics one though. How difficult is it to measure out a couple teaspoons of nutrients and dump it in to a 5 gallon bucket, then stick your ppm wand in there? Simple stupid. There is no way that is more work than organics.....making soil from scratch, harvesting worm bins, making compost teas, nutrient teas, seed teas, FPE's, etc. Its not even close Hy.
making a compost tea. Hmmm add molasses, a couple handfuls of wormcastings and compost, some kelp meal. Less than 2 min. Your not blowing bubbles with a straw the whole time. The pump or brewer does it for you. Measuring multiple nutes then adding ph up or down and measuring ph takes 20 min.. Hmm you right about not even close but backwards. You measure bottled nutes and ph every watering. So add up all that time. It will definitely exceed Los methods. Make an sst 5- 10 min total. Harvest a bin - 20 - 30 min... Compost tea 2 min , botanical tea 2 min. Foliar - 10 min of straining....
 

Below66

Member
Hyroot, I'm currently helping my cousin out and he uses bottles, almost exclusively. I unscrew the couple caps and throw it into a measuring cup, do it with about 3-7 different bottles, then it takes me about 1 or 2 tries to lower the pH, You're right, about 20 minutes to setup and 20 minutes to water them all(depending how many you got running). But that's all I do... Take off dead/yellow leaves, rotate, foliar and that feeding/watering regimen. Let me repeat that again, that's ALL I DO for these plants. Zilch, nada, finito.

Really sit back and let that sink in for a second, now think about all the love you've show your plants and all the things you've gone through to make them happy and time taken to figure out what can make them happier.

It doesn't even compare, I'm trying my hardest to make him switch to a more organic method, and he refuses, there's less dead/yellow leaves involved, less pests, healthier plants, less money once you got everything rolling(bins, tea brewers), ect..

But don't kid yourself... one way is akin to pumping an IV full of chemicals from a doctor into a person, the other is like slowly nourishing growing toddlers...

To people like him, it's all about money, yield, and ease of use, in that order. To people like you, it's more about quality and quality of life. You grow medicine, he grows money trees. People like you fight pest organically, most people using full bottle programs tend to lean towards the avid and pyrethrin bombs.

It's 2 different worlds my man, apples and oranges. I took such a liking to doing this which is why I'm trying to get some bins and brewers running, it's the right way to do it, but it's definitely not the easier way to do it.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Hyroot, I'm currently helping my cousin out and he uses bottles, almost exclusively. I unscrew the couple caps and throw it into a measuring cup, do it with about 3-7 different bottles, then it takes me about 1 or 2 tries to lower the pH, You're right, about 20 minutes to setup and 20 minutes to water them all(depending how many you got running). But that's all I do... Take off dead/yellow leaves, rotate, foliar and that feeding/watering regimen. Let me repeat that again, that's ALL I DO for these plants. Zilch, nada, finito.

Really sit back and let that sink in for a second, now think about all the love you've show your plants and all the things you've gone through to make them happy and time taken to figure out what can make them happier.

It doesn't even compare, I'm trying my hardest to make him switch to a more organic method, and he refuses, there's less dead/yellow leaves involved, less pests, healthier plants, less money once you got everything rolling(bins, tea brewers), ect..

But don't kid yourself... one way is akin to pumping an IV full of chemicals from a doctor into a person, the other is like slowly nourishing growing toddlers...

To people like him, it's all about money, yield, and ease of use, in that order. To people like you, it's more about quality and quality of life. You grow medicine, he grows money trees. People like you fight pest organically, most people using full bottle programs tend to lean towards the avid and pyrethrin bombs.

It's 2 different worlds my man, apples and oranges. I took such a liking to doing this which is why I'm trying to get some bins and brewers running, it's the right way to do it, but it's definitely not the easier way to do it.

you can make money trees with organics too.. Add up that 20 min every watering that you don't do with organics...an extra hour of work a week. teas are once a week and take 5 min at most.. the rest is just plain water..
 

genuity

Well-Known Member
i run both organic & "bottles"...and with both im around $200-$250/lb to produce(veg/flower,nutes,soil,lights,ac,venting..ect)
i see some organic heads use way to damn much stuff,as i see bottle heads use to damn much stuff.

people say,with bottles you are trying to give the plant what it needs,well that's the same with organics..we put in the soil,what we think the plant will want..
the plant is still gonna only take what it wants,no matter what form it comes in.
 

Below66

Member
you can make money trees with organics too.. Add up that 20 min every watering that you don't do with organics...an extra hour of work a week. teas are once a week and take 5 min at most.. the rest is just plain water..
What about the cleaning up after the teas? the taking care of compost and worm bins? sourcing ingredients that are a bit harder to find? ect...

I've never done organics so IDK maybe you're right, you're definitely making me want to jump ship faster :)
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
What about the cleaning up after the teas? the taking care of compost and worm bins? sourcing ingredients that are a bit harder to find? ect...

I've never done organics so IDK maybe you're right, you're definitely making me want to jump ship faster :)
you don't rally need to clean up. Organics is dirty lol.. I spray buckets and totes with peroxide and let sit then wipe with a paper towel then rinse with hot water. Sourcing. I'm between bins. Yesterday I went to a local landscaping company down the street dropped $50 on a few bags of castings, compost and rock dust. Then went to the hydro shop and dropped $40 on crab meal, kelp meal and neem meal. Al ready have recycled soil mixed with new coco, peat, and perlite. mixing it all today. Then I grow lavender, rosemary, cloves, peppermint, aloe Vera. I make botanical teas with those and foliars. No room to grow nettle and comfrey
I also grow a bunch of other seasoning herbs I use for cooking and veggies too. Not very difficult. I have 1 large bin. If had more bins of the same size. I wouldn't need to buy castings and compost. The ones I do buy are pretty good and cheap.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
you can make money trees with organics too.. Add up that 20 min every watering that you don't do with organics...an extra hour of work a week. teas are once a week and take 5 min at most.. the rest is just plain water..
EH? I water the exact same amount of times every week in organics as I did with synthetics. The plants don't require any less water from one method to the other. The only difference is that instead of measuring out a few teaspoons of synthetic nutrients, I'm adding a compost tea, or a nutrient tea, or aloe, or coconut water, etc. Where are you getting this huge time savings from?? Aside from watering with nutrient solutions, what is it that was consuming so much of your time with synthetics?

Again, I agree with below. Growing organically is the right way, and best way to do it IMO. But to say that it's easier, or less time consuming is disingenuous.
 

Below66

Member
Can't hate, hyroot sure has a way of making it seem easy and not too far off from bottles, lol.

Btw what do you mean you are between bins? As in you only have 1 bin for compost and 1 for worms and they ran out or...?
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Below, if you're going to jump in to organics you really need to set up a few worm bins. I started with only one, and did not anticipate how long it would take for castings to be ready, and how much castings I would ultimately need. I run a perpetual cycle where I harvest every 3 weeks. 1 bin didn't come close to meeting my needs for amending new batches of soil, top dressing buckets, and making ACT's. 3 bins suits my needs perfectly. My advice would be to buy more worms than you'll think you need, and set up several bins that are staggered so that you always have castings ready. Worms are very cheap to buy. Having to buy bags of ewc gets expensive, and they are inferior to what you can produce at home. The source of compost that you use is your biggest limiting factor.

Aside from that, I would be skeptical of a lot of the other things that you see discussed. My opinion only, but I don't think some of the stuff is necessary. Brewing nutrient teas, SST's, FPE's, coconut water, aloe, Fulvic acid, Humic acid, TM7 etc. Not saying that these don't help, but I didn't see any visible signs that the end result is improved upon beyond just using water. If your soil was amended with a good assortment of organic inputs, and you inoculated the soil with *quality* compost and/or an ACT or two then you will get fantastic results. The only product that I have come across that I can clearly see an added benefit from is silica. Aside from that I'm not sold on all of the other goodies.

edit: A top dress at some point in early flower seems to be beneficial as well.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I think all of this tinkering is a hold over from the days of growing with bottles. We all got so accustomed to adding a teaspoon of this, and a dash of that that we feel we have to constantly be manipulating things for the plant to thrive. In organics we have to learn to let go. The plant is in charge, and the microbes in the soil do the work for us. Create a hospitable environment for the microbes, and you should be able to set it on cruise control.
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Just caught up on a couple pages. Mi dos centavos?

Organics is heavy work to a certain extent. But once the permacultre garden is sustained, then maintence becomes minimal.

Bottles? Sure one or two might be needed, i admit, i buy coco water and mollasses.. fulvic?eh once ina blue moon. lol

But synthetic bottles from hydro capitalst companies, fuck that, And the ppl (followers)who use them, i say, let them use it and grow inferior unhealthy herb, pollute our water destroy the ecology, its only our youth that will suffer. Ha

I keep my footprint to a minimum., my worms, my compost bins, my weeds, herbs and soil does the rest,
oh and as for genetics, i would argue tht I can grow shwag hermie seeds danker THEN "elite strains" grown in hydro ebb dwc flood blah blah synthetic boo boo

Organic terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
 
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DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
RedCarpet I sometimes wonder that but I have some older genetics that I used to run in hydro and they looked ok but nothing like when we went to a living soil. True genetic expressions and way better yields. The plant really gets all it needs when you run this type system.
I agree with headtreep, though first one must start with good genes, however if you put good genes into a poor environment, the complete expression of the genes will not be present to the degree of the health of the environment the genes finds themselves in. So to use a numerical value such as percentage to express the wholeness of the product from start to finish is futile. I think it is best said genetics plays 100% of ability to produce its unique wholeness (attributes), whereas environment plays 100% in ability to produce its ability to reach its full potential.

DankSwag
 

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Amending your own soil, maintaining 3 worm bins and brewing teas alone is more labor intensive than any synthetic regiment you can find. And believe me, I have scaled things back a lot already. I used to have a tea brewing 24/7.

I am all ears though if there is some stuff that I can cut out
mee too!

DankSwag
 

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Taking care of the bins, no. Harvesting the bins, yes. IMO using your own castings is the key to this. You can add a million things to a soil but they aren't worth a lick if your source of compost is inferior so I'm willing to do it..... it's just monotonous and time consuming
That is why my organic farm business will be making worm castings on large scale and I hope to sell a cubic foot for less than Roots Organic.
I plan on offering various base compost for bedding and food sources to meet some finicky customers. So freak that organic steer manure, the though of fish compost as a base is more appealing, yet who knows what the freaking fish are eating out there? LMAO with some of the purest our here, everything is tainted to some degree somehow, it is the WORMS my friends that break it down to basic nutrient elements. Worms can take medical bio waste, shit you would not touch unless suited up from biological warfare, won't hurt those worms, they eat it up and shit it out rendered harmless and useful!

Bottom line if comes out a worms ass in the end it doesn't matter where it came from! And that you can take to the soil bank!:bigjoint:

DankSwag
 

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
I need to stop smoking weed before I harvest my bins. It's a double edged sword though because its boring as fuck digging through worm poop, and having a spliff makes it more fun... but when I'm stoned I get OCD about it and won't stop sifting until every last worm and cocoon has been found
Been there and got to do that again today, I've got like freaking 15 square feet of worm bins going on right now just at home.
I am up to my elbows in worm poo. :-D

DankSwag
 

Below66

Member
Below, if you're going to jump in to organics you really need to set up a few worm bins. I started with only one, and did not anticipate how long it would take for castings to be ready, and how much castings I would ultimately need. I run a perpetual cycle where I harvest every 3 weeks. 1 bin didn't come close to meeting my needs for amending new batches of soil, top dressing buckets, and making ACT's. 3 bins suits my needs perfectly. My advice would be to buy more worms than you'll think you need, and set up several bins that are staggered so that you always have castings ready. Worms are very cheap to buy. Having to buy bags of ewc gets expensive, and they are inferior to what you can produce at home. The source of compost that you use is your biggest limiting factor.

Aside from that, I would be skeptical of a lot of the other things that you see discussed. My opinion only, but I don't think some of the stuff is necessary. Brewing nutrient teas, SST's, FPE's, coconut water, aloe, Fulvic acid, Humic acid, TM7 etc. Not saying that these don't help, but I didn't see any visible signs that the end result is improved upon beyond just using water. If your soil was amended with a good assortment of organic inputs, and you inoculated the soil with *quality* compost and/or an ACT or two then you will get fantastic results. The only product that I have come across that I can clearly see an added benefit from is silica. Aside from that I'm not sold on all of the other goodies.

edit: A top dress at some point in early flower seems to be beneficial as well.
Thanks for this, might be a bit controversial to say here but it helped me re-realize all I need are the quality foundations pieces to kick start this off.

But I still believe most of that stuff you listed is good stuff for the plant ;)
 
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