Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Steelheader3430]

I just tested my NPK with one of those vial testers from home depot. I hear they're not perfect but it gives me an idea. P didn't even read at all. Would you guys recommend high p guano as a dry amendment or should I mix it with water and water it in. The moisture of my soil is good right now. I'm between runs and the soil is just sitting in fabric pots and a trash can. My N is off the charts but i'm not concerned as it's all organic. I've got about 60 gallons of soil and not sure how much guano to add. With my k def I liberally dusted with potash, and it came up to a good level.

 

[Pattahabi]

Mo, did you have any other aeration besides the red lava rock and bio-char? I broke up that exact red lava rock from home depot and did not have those results. I did get tired of breaking it up with a hammer, which is another reason I have several types and sizes in my mix. I don't know of any reason why that lava rock would drain any different then any other? May I ask what else was in the mix?

I just tested my NPK with one of those vial testers from home depot. I hear they're not perfect but it gives me an idea. P didn't even read at all. Would you guys recommend high p guano as a dry amendment or should I mix it with water and water it in. The moisture of my soil is good right now. I'm between runs and the soil is just sitting in fabric pots and a trash can. My N is off the charts but i'm not concerned as it's all organic. I've got about 60 gallons of soil and not sure how much guano to add. With my k def I liberally dusted with potash, and it came up to a good level.

I would throw that npk tester away, imo it's useless. Hydrostores are always telling us our plants need more - they are in a place of lack. What I have found is adding less is more. There is no substitute for quality humus. Adding a bunch of P is going to kill mycorrhizal fungi. If you are seeing a specific issue, post it up and lets see what we can figure out.

Peace!
P-

 

[DonPetro]

I personally stay away from guanos for various reasons i won't get into. If you have time, add @ 1/tbsp per gallon some micronized soft rock phosphate and fish bone meal or even regular organic bone meal depending on your preference. Add another couple cups of fresh castings and mix it up.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I just tested my NPK with one of those vial testers from home depot. I hear they're not perfect but it gives me an idea. P didn't even read at all. Would you guys recommend high p guano as a dry amendment or should I mix it with water and water it in. The moisture of my soil is good right now. I'm between runs and the soil is just sitting in fabric pots and a trash can. My N is off the charts but i'm not concerned as it's all organic. I've got about 60 gallons of soil and not sure how much guano to add. With my k def I liberally dusted with potash, and it came up to a good level.

Steel, I've scaled things back pretty substantially and I love the results. 1/3 peat/coco, 1/3 *quality* compost, and 1/3 aeration bits. To that I add kelp meal, alfalfa meal, crab shell meal, neem seed meal, and an all purpose organic amendment (Organically Done)..... Which I probably don't even need, but it's a local company and I figure it can't hurt. In addition I add generous amounts of rock dusts (3-4 cups per cf).

The only other items that I use that I can visually verify positive results from are fish hydrosylate and silica. Both of those are watered in once every couple weeks or so. A couple compost teas along the way are used for good measure as well.

If your compost is kick-ass, you have plenty of aeration bits, and you're generous with the rock dusts you will get killer results.

Edit: forgot oyster shell flour. I use that too.

 

[Mohican]

Best soil I ever made using bags was with bone, blood, iron, and 10 years of used organic veggie potting soil. I also had great results making a tea with espoma organic veggie fert.

Super soil made with a base of ProMix BX was amazing too.

The compost pile with bananas, eggshells, dandelions, grass, leaves, fruits, veggies, weeds, weed...was to date the most amazing grow ever. I did hit it with one dose of PK (Mad Farmer MOAB) at the start of flower because it didn't look like it was flowering nearly as well as it's sister in the Super Soil. Results were amazing. No burnt tips on the long skinny Mulanje sativa leaves. No bugs!

Now my TGA Jesus OG is re-vegging in that spot and is already throwing out dark green new growth!

@Pattahabi - maybe the mixture of ash and lava dust made cement? The remainder of the soil was super soil and more worm castings. When I removed the plant a week later (it was not happy) and put it in a smart pot full of Super Soil it responded immediately and gave me some nice buds I used a sledge hammer and just dropped it repeatedly on the lava rocks to break them up. Some were hard as metal and others were soft. I want to get some volcanic sand to try in my soil in the future. I want that nice volcano flavor from Hawaii!

Cheers,
Mo

 

[Pattahabi]

Best soil I ever made using bags was with bone, blood, iron, and 10 years of used organic veggie potting soil. I also had great results making a tea with espoma organic veggie fert.

Super soil made with a base of ProMix BX was amazing too.

The compost pile with bananas, eggshells, dandelions, grass, leaves, fruits, veggies, weeds, weed...was to date the most amazing grow ever. I did hit it with one dose of PK (Mad Farmer MOAB) at the start of flower because it didn't look like it was flowering nearly as well as it's sister in the Super Soil. Results were amazing. No burnt tips on the long skinny Mulanje sativa leaves. No bugs!

Now my TGA Jesus OG is re-vegging in that spot and is already throwing out dark green new growth!

@Pattahabi - maybe the mixture of ash and lava dust made cement? The remainder of the soil was super soil and more worm castings. When I removed the plant a week later (it was not happy) and put it in a smart pot full of Super Soil it responded immediately and gave me some nice buds I used a sledge hammer and just dropped it repeatedly on the lava rocks to break them up. Some were hard as metal and others were soft. I want to get some volcanic sand to try in my soil in the future. I want that nice volcano flavor from Hawaii!

Cheers,
Mo

Mo, I would leave the wood ash out and try again. Take a look at the liming properties of wood ash.

Wiki Wood Ash

Funtimes is my go to for geology questions. Here's a quick copy and paste. What I find most interesting is how similar the different lava rocks are. Seems to me that cooling rates and gases seem to be the primary difference. Now the real question - How available (or how long till available) are these minerals?

Ya buddy. The dark lava rock, a.k.a. scoria, is derived from the same type of magma that would make basalt. What makes them different is the conditions of their formation. Scoria will erupt out of volcanoes with water and gases in the lava, being flung out to rapidly cool off and end up looking like a sponge. If that same magma slowly cooled over a long time under the earth, the minerals would have time to group together visible crystals of olivine and make a rock called gabbro. If it cooled off fairly quickly and came from a more mellow eruption, like a Hawaiian volcano, the result would be basalt. The same deal applies for pumice, granite, and rhyolite....in that order LOLz.

To bring it home for anyone not up on their igneous rock game....

The basalt-gabbro-scoria making material (lava only exists on the surface of the earth, magma is in the ground) is referred to as mafic. If you pop on over to wikipedia, go to the "igneous rocks" entry, and take a quick peek at the table next to the "chemical classification" heading, you will see that the magma is primarily composed of pyroxine, olivine and a small ammount of Ca rich plagioclase. The rhyolite-granite-pumice making stuff is referred to as felsic and is composed of orthoclase, quartz, Na rich plagioclase, muscovite, biotite, and amphibole. The minerals covered in those two lists, mafic and felsic, cover pretty much the whole spectrum of the primary components of ALL igneous rocks. BWAHAHAHA!

Peace!
P-

 

[Steelheader3430]

Steel, I've scaled things back pretty substantially and I love the results. 1/3 peat/coco, 1/3 *quality* compost, and 1/3 aeration bits. To that I add kelp meal, alfalfa meal, crab shell meal, neem seed meal, and an all purpose organic amendment (Organically Done)..... Which I probably don't even need, but it's a local company and I figure it can't hurt. In addition I add generous amounts of rock dusts (3-4 cups per cf).

The only other items that I use that I can visually verify positive results from are fish hydrosylate and silica. Both of those are watered in once every couple weeks or so. A couple compost teas along the way are used for good measure as well.

If your compost is kick-ass, you have plenty of aeration bits, and you're generous with the rock dusts you will get killer results.

Edit: forgot oyster shell flour. I use that too.

Sounds a lot like my mix. It's the one caan posted up at the beginning of the thread. I made a tea with some steeped horsetail for silica and added the potash. Now I just gotta get some P in there. I'll probably just spread it out and dust on the guano like I did the potash.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Sounds a lot like my mix. It's the one caan posted up at the beginning of the thread. I made a tea with some steeped horsetail for silica and added the potash. Now I just gotta get some P in there. I'll probably just spread it out and dust on the guano like I did the potash.

Then I would proceed with caution adding phosphorous. Too much can be detrimental to the micro herd (fungi) and can affect uptake.

 

[Mohican]

I think you are right about the ash!

It is all that they use in Malawi for fertilizer (and probably urine).

 

[keysareme]

Highly alkalotic medium? Are you telling me the red lava rocks from home depot are going to kill my microbes? I have the red lava rock in my soil. Is that what is wrong with my plants?

View attachment 3167035


We're all trying to grow organic and sustainable. Sure, we want to be as sustainable as possible, but unless you are a completely closed looped gardener, you're just like the rest of us doing the best we can.

On a lighter note, this is my new horizontal flow through worm bin. I built this for less then $60 in materials. I'm a total noob vermiculturist, so this is going to be a really fun learning experience. A friend and I are looking into putting together some larger bins. This one will hold about 20 gallons in each side.

View attachment 3167041

Loving the gorgeous weather! Time to fire up some herb and enjoy the weekend!

Peace!
P-

Dude,

 

[CannaBare]

If I already have Greensand, Basalt, and glacial rock dust do I need to add or even buy rock phosphate? I read it is good for fungas but so is any rock dust. The glacial rock dust sheet says it's great for phosporous, which I did not know when I bought it. I was going to buy the Rock Phosphate but now I just don't know. Does everyone here use rock phosphate? Do you think I'll need it with my other rock dusts?

 

[Mohican]

Many of these slow amendments take a full season to become available to your plants.

 

[Pattahabi]

If I already have Greensand, Basalt, and glacial rock dust do I need to add or even buy rock phosphate? I read it is good for fungas but so is any rock dust. The glacial rock dust sheet says it's great for phosporous, which I did not know when I bought it. I was going to buy the Rock Phosphate but now I just don't know. Does everyone here use rock phosphate? Do you think I'll need it with my other rock dusts?

Personally I stay away from SRP because of the polonium-210. I also believe the concept of using high P in flower is a hydro philosophy that should not be applied to organic gardening. I think you have it pretty well covered with the basalt and GRD.

P-

 

[hyroot]

^^^^ basalt rock dust is a nutrient accumulator as well. Especially with phos

 

[st0wandgrow]

^^^^ basalt rock dust is a nutrient accumulator as well. Especially with phos

I was under the assumption that nutrient accumulators are plants. Have I been mistaken this whole time?

 

[hyroot]

I was under the assumption that nutrient accumulators are plants. Have I been mistaken this whole time?

both. Legumes, grass, comfrey, etc... Kelp, rock dust, etc... Nutrient accumulators

 

[Pattahabi]

^^^^ basalt rock dust is a nutrient accumulator as well. Especially with phos

I think you should take some time to research your answers. Your misinformation is going to cost people money and time.

Edit: Full text HERE

Dynamic accumulators are plants that gather certain micronutrients, macronutrients, or minerals from the soil through their roots, as opposed to from the air, and store them in their leaves. These plants can be used either for detoxifying soil or for gathering a certain nutrient or mineral from an area. For instance, clovers will mine great quantities of nitrogen out of the air via a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. These bacteria convert gaseous nitrogen into a form available to the clover, and exchange this nitrogen for exudates/sugars given by the clover. When the clover dies or is cut down, the green matter breaks down and releases the nitrogen into the soil.

But then again, who believes wiki?

 

[hyroot]

I think you should take some time to research your answers. Your misinformation is going to cost people money and time.

Edit: Full text HERE



But then again, who believes wiki?

read this thread from the beginning. cann and headtreep provide links and sources... You will even see where me and cann argued about kelp being a phos accumulator. I was saying the opposite of what I am now.

you should stop stalkinge trying to argue every post with wiki. Only use links and sources from creditable scientist and horticulturists, universities and botany labs. Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, university of Missouri, Washington state, Texas a&M all have botany and horticulture departments. Oxford and university of Missouri are among the top. Elaine Ingram is a creditable microbiologist to read on. Teaming with microbes and teaming with nutrients are good books. Revs tlo is another. Compost teas by Elaine Ingram is another good book. Grow some plants and gain some real world experience. Then come back in 10-15 years after you have done so. You can find horticulture 101, 110, 210 from university of Missouri online for free. I suggest reading those first.

 

[st0wandgrow]

read this thread from the beginning. cann and headtreep provide links and sources... You will even see where me and cann argued about kelp being a phos accumulator. I was saying the opposite of what I am now.

you should stop stalkinge trying to argue every post with wiki. Only use links and sources from creditable scientist and horticulturists, universities and botany labs. Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, university of Missouri, Washington state, Texas a&M all have botany and horticulture departments. Oxford and university of Missouri are among the top. Elaine Ingram is a creditable microbiologist to read on. Teaming with microbes and teaming with nutrients are good books. Revs tlo is another. Compost teas by Elaine Ingram is another good book. Grow some plants and gain some real world experience. Then come back in 10-15 years after you have done so. You can find horticulture 101, 110, 210 from university of Missouri online for free. I suggest reading those first.

hy, do you feel that it's important to post accurate info? I do. We all have opinions on certain things, but a lot of topics aren't about opinions, they're about facts. I can tell you that Pattahabi is very knowledgeable when it comes to organics. He belongs to another site that I used to frequent, and I've never known him to spread misinformation, or be at all argumentative. You've posted some stuff recently that doesn't seem correct, and he is simply trying to set the record straight for anyone that reads this.

You asked him to site credible sources to back up his assertions, but have you done that? Here's a few things that you've posted recently off the top of my head, and I would like for you to back up your claims with some credible sources. If you're correct, and I'm wrong then I will admit that and be happy that I learned something new. There's no shame in being wrong. We're not keeping score here.

You claimed that:

- small bubbles kill microbes in a compost tea

- 48 hours of darkness at the end of the flowering period will "double or triple" your trichome count

- compost/vermicompost bins grow mycorrhizal fungi

- basalt is a nutrient accumulator

I believe all of the above is either incorrect, or grossly exaggerated. If you can provide proof from credible sources for any of the above I will gladly admit that I was mistaken. Again, I think it's important to be as factual with the info that we share on here as possible.

 

[hyroot]

hy, do you feel that it's important to post accurate info? I do. We all have opinions on certain things, but a lot of topics aren't about opinions, they're about facts. I can tell you that Pattahabi is very knowledgeable when it comes to organics. He belongs to another site that I used to frequent, and I've never known him to spread misinformation, or be at all argumentative. You've posted some stuff recently that doesn't seem correct, and he is simply trying to set the record straight for anyone that reads this.

You asked him to site credible sources to back up his assertions, but have you done that? Here's a few things that you've posted recently off the top of my head, and I would like for you to back up your claims with some credible sources. If you're correct, and I'm wrong then I will admit that and be happy that I learned something new. There's no shame in being wrong. We're not keeping score here.

You claimed that:

- small bubbles kill microbes in a compost tea

- 48 hours of darkness at the end of the flowering period will "double or triple" your trichome count

- compost/vermicompost bins grow mycorrhizal fungi

- basalt is a nutrient accumulator

I believe all of the above is either incorrect, or grossly exaggerated. If you can provide proof from credible sources for any of the above I will gladly admit that I was mistaken. Again, I think it's important to be as factual with the info that we share on here as possible.

accumulators info at beginning thread. Small bubbles slicing through microbes is in Elaine ingrams book and on microbe mans site. Darkness, I posted that link to oxford journals in gands thread and everyone else agreed. You argued about thc% not amount of oils and trichomes.. If you are still disputing that then you never tried. Next you will say uvb doesn't improve trichomes. When it does. We already settled that one. I guess you never got over it.

the other dude. Attacked me in another thread. Correcting something I never said.. He stalks me on every thread.