Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
- Thread starter headtreep
- Start date
SpliffAndMyLady
Well-Known Member
Grown in soon to be Recycled Organic Living Soil, using these nonsense techniques.....
....Aloe/Lactobacillus foilar spray and coconut water soil drenches....
....Aloe/Lactobacillus foilar spray and coconut water soil drenches....
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
This whole site is improving much to the thanks of all us geeks (especially Cann, Rrog and others)
Thanks for getting the ball rolling on real deal, DEEP organic practices, keep it up everyone!
Thanks for getting the ball rolling on real deal, DEEP organic practices, keep it up everyone!
grnhrvstr
Well-Known Member
+1 ^ I couldnt agree more!
Sik thread,awesome information.Let me be the first to newb it up as I cant wait to go the next level.I mainly use plain old roots,4-5 months ago I made my first batch of subs super soil and so far am liking what I see and really love the ease of just adding water.I used roots as the base but am interested in making my own base to use as the recipe above.I have a red wiggler worm bin as well as a 30 gal compost tumbler that ive had a cpl years and make so so compost and ewc..and it looks nothing like I see in bags but you mention to use either ewc or compost.Arent these 2 totally different things and wouldnt it be better to have both if in fact they are?
The ewc I grow and buy in the bag are very tint,granular like and powdery where as compost is more meaty,chunky that contains many more things.Of courseI havent had the pleasure of inspecting many quality composts so im unsure.I also have a small bag of pure alaska humisoil which is yet another yummy creature that I use when making my aact's.Thanx again and awsome pix!
Kalyx
Active Member
Nice all. Much love for the info and organic ness! The higher organic minds here are changing the way I grow...
the burning question I have is why the synth silica product still? I understand its a great emulsifier but...?
is this needed, other actually organic options?
"organic is like pregnant, you either are or aren't". Synthetic silica isn't.
the burning question I have is why the synth silica product still? I understand its a great emulsifier but...?
is this needed, other actually organic options?
"organic is like pregnant, you either are or aren't". Synthetic silica isn't.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Coot was kind enough to reply to this question of Silica's organic orientation:
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2010/06/silica-the-hidden-cost-of-chemicals/ about silica
http://www.fngla.org/education-and-research/research/reports/75/finalreport.pdf more on Silica
Potassium silicate is found naturally, Basalt contains this mineral compound. The problem is, as usual, that the cost of extracting it is prohibitive.
USDA NOP (National Organic Program) has a general regulation known as 205.208(e) (link) which covers bio-pesticides and bio-fungicides including mineral compounds.
Chemical compounds are contained in a database known as Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) which is part of the American Chemical Society. The listing for Synthetic Potassium Silicate is CAS # 1312-76-1
Under the general blanket regulation noted above, synthetic Potassium Silicate is approved with this stipulation:
Quote:
The silica used in the manufacture of potassium silicate must be sourced from naturally occuring sand. May be used if the requirements of 205.206(e) are met.
AgSil 16H from PQ Corporation was the product that brought about this ruling by USDA NOP whereas prior to that, synthetic sources were prohibited. Their application and final approval allowed if the restrictions were met.
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2010/06/silica-the-hidden-cost-of-chemicals/ about silica
http://www.fngla.org/education-and-research/research/reports/75/finalreport.pdf more on Silica
Potassium silicate is found naturally, Basalt contains this mineral compound. The problem is, as usual, that the cost of extracting it is prohibitive.
USDA NOP (National Organic Program) has a general regulation known as 205.208(e) (link) which covers bio-pesticides and bio-fungicides including mineral compounds.
Chemical compounds are contained in a database known as Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) which is part of the American Chemical Society. The listing for Synthetic Potassium Silicate is CAS # 1312-76-1
Under the general blanket regulation noted above, synthetic Potassium Silicate is approved with this stipulation:
Quote:
The silica used in the manufacture of potassium silicate must be sourced from naturally occuring sand. May be used if the requirements of 205.206(e) are met.
AgSil 16H from PQ Corporation was the product that brought about this ruling by USDA NOP whereas prior to that, synthetic sources were prohibited. Their application and final approval allowed if the restrictions were met.
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
Just use horsetail. It's like 68% silica.
Cann
Well-Known Member
I have a bunch of horsetail growing in my front yard...its at the point right now where they are just little spears - they havent turned into the classic horse tail shape yet. Should I still use these, or should I wait?
Also rising moon, how do you incorporate horsetails into your silica regime? a.k.a. if I am trying to replicate the effects of adding Agsil every watering, how would I go about this with horsetail.
do you crush it and use the fresh juice? do you ferment it? topdress it? very curious here.
enlighten us sir...i always hear you mention horsetail instead of pro-tekt, definitely interested in your methods
Also rising moon, how do you incorporate horsetails into your silica regime? a.k.a. if I am trying to replicate the effects of adding Agsil every watering, how would I go about this with horsetail.
do you crush it and use the fresh juice? do you ferment it? topdress it? very curious here.
enlighten us sir...i always hear you mention horsetail instead of pro-tekt, definitely interested in your methods
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
As for the horsetail...
I am currently using it in 2 different forms, a fermented form watered in, and the traditional brewed method, foliar sprayed.
The Biodynamic method is as follows from the Josephine Porter Institute:
"Fresh Tea Instructions:
Bring one ounce of horsetail herb to a boil in one quart of water. Allow to cool. Strain and dilute adding 2 gallons of water. Stir vigorously for 15 minutes. Apply using a fine mist spray to the foliar parts of targeted plants.
Fermented Tea Instructions:
Bring one unit of horsetail herb to boil in one gallon of water and simmer for one hour. Let cool and transfer to a crock or other storage container with a loose fitting lid. Store this in a cool place, e.g. basement, and allow to ferment 10 to 14 days, until the fermented tea has a strong sulphuric aroma. Strain the remaining herb particles out, fill the tea in a glass jug, and store it in a cool dark place until ready to use. It can be stored 6 or more months without losing effectiveness.
To use, Add 1/2 gallon of fermented tea to 4 1/2 gallons water, stir vigerously for 20 minutes, and use to treat up to 1 1/2 acres. One unit of horsetail can thereby treat up to 3 acres with as powerful effect as can be achieved by the fresh tea recipe on only one acre.
Ratio for diluting is one part fermented tea to 9 parts water. The fermented BD #508 most likely should be applied as a soil spray, whereas the fresh tea version is most likely the form to use as a foliar spray."
I am currently using it in 2 different forms, a fermented form watered in, and the traditional brewed method, foliar sprayed.
The Biodynamic method is as follows from the Josephine Porter Institute:
"Fresh Tea Instructions:
Bring one ounce of horsetail herb to a boil in one quart of water. Allow to cool. Strain and dilute adding 2 gallons of water. Stir vigorously for 15 minutes. Apply using a fine mist spray to the foliar parts of targeted plants.
Fermented Tea Instructions:
Bring one unit of horsetail herb to boil in one gallon of water and simmer for one hour. Let cool and transfer to a crock or other storage container with a loose fitting lid. Store this in a cool place, e.g. basement, and allow to ferment 10 to 14 days, until the fermented tea has a strong sulphuric aroma. Strain the remaining herb particles out, fill the tea in a glass jug, and store it in a cool dark place until ready to use. It can be stored 6 or more months without losing effectiveness.
To use, Add 1/2 gallon of fermented tea to 4 1/2 gallons water, stir vigerously for 20 minutes, and use to treat up to 1 1/2 acres. One unit of horsetail can thereby treat up to 3 acres with as powerful effect as can be achieved by the fresh tea recipe on only one acre.
Ratio for diluting is one part fermented tea to 9 parts water. The fermented BD #508 most likely should be applied as a soil spray, whereas the fresh tea version is most likely the form to use as a foliar spray."
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
Making your own Lime substitute with eggshells:
Step one:
Save your used eggshells in a container in the fridge.
Step two:
Once you have a decent amount, lay them out on a baking sheet, and "cook" @ 160 F, for a few hours...
Step three:
Grind up the dried shells in a coffee grinder. (or mortar and pestle, thanks Mohican)
Step four:
Use in place of lime, provide your plants with TONS of calcium and other trace minerals.
Step one:
Save your used eggshells in a container in the fridge.
Step two:
Once you have a decent amount, lay them out on a baking sheet, and "cook" @ 160 F, for a few hours...
Step three:
Grind up the dried shells in a coffee grinder. (or mortar and pestle, thanks Mohican)
Step four:
Use in place of lime, provide your plants with TONS of calcium and other trace minerals.
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
No till veggie garden photos:
(these beds are built of raised earth, top-dressed annually with compost and rock dusts, and get a buckwheat green manure crop when I can squeeze it in, used mainly for short season veggies)
(these beds are built of raised earth, top-dressed annually with compost and rock dusts, and get a buckwheat green manure crop when I can squeeze it in, used mainly for short season veggies)
Kalyx
Active Member
So which organic purists are cool with synth silica so long as its precursor is natural sand?
Sounds like a loophole to use it because of cost prohibition etc, and just because a compound occurs naturally does not mean its bottled synthetic analog is legit to use in my organic garden. To those who use it, please state why it's still so important to your living organic crop?
...rising moon is making me hungry with all those pro-tekt free veggies growing under the sun! Danks for the detailed info on horsetail biodynamics =]
Sounds like a loophole to use it because of cost prohibition etc, and just because a compound occurs naturally does not mean its bottled synthetic analog is legit to use in my organic garden. To those who use it, please state why it's still so important to your living organic crop?
...rising moon is making me hungry with all those pro-tekt free veggies growing under the sun! Danks for the detailed info on horsetail biodynamics =]
Cann
Well-Known Member
Rising Moon...like a fucking boss....those pictures are fantastic. basket o' beans lookin real nice.
bout to place my order from horizon...now! lol. inspirational to say the least
Kalyx - silica is important for my plants for all of the reasons that Rrog and many others have highlighted over and over again. do a test - water half your garden with potassium silicate every time (foliars too), and the other half without. tell me if you don't notice a difference in leaf size/texture, stem thickness/strength, etc. this is not to say that the same results couldn't be achieved with horsetail - i just don't have the time, energy, or really care enough to harvest all that horsetail and process it into a silica amendment. call me a non-purist, sure. i also use powdered aloe even though I live in the desert and can go out and harvest aloe...i just can't be filleting/blending aloe leaves every time I go to water...especially when I need enough water for 80 plants...its just unrealistic. if you want to go through all these efforts to be 100% pure in your ways, go for it. as far as i'm concerned, using "synthetic" silica doesn't affect the living soil in a negative way at all, the effect is only positive. you seem to be viewing it like potassium silicate is tainting your organic crop...why is this? what affect do you think it has on the soil or plants?
bout to place my order from horizon...now! lol. inspirational to say the least
Kalyx - silica is important for my plants for all of the reasons that Rrog and many others have highlighted over and over again. do a test - water half your garden with potassium silicate every time (foliars too), and the other half without. tell me if you don't notice a difference in leaf size/texture, stem thickness/strength, etc. this is not to say that the same results couldn't be achieved with horsetail - i just don't have the time, energy, or really care enough to harvest all that horsetail and process it into a silica amendment. call me a non-purist, sure. i also use powdered aloe even though I live in the desert and can go out and harvest aloe...i just can't be filleting/blending aloe leaves every time I go to water...especially when I need enough water for 80 plants...its just unrealistic. if you want to go through all these efforts to be 100% pure in your ways, go for it. as far as i'm concerned, using "synthetic" silica doesn't affect the living soil in a negative way at all, the effect is only positive. you seem to be viewing it like potassium silicate is tainting your organic crop...why is this? what affect do you think it has on the soil or plants?
headtreep
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add, if anyone has suggestions or think we are doing something wrong, please feel free to address in this thread. If I don't have the answer I will certainly try my best to find it. It would be cool to see this thread to be kind of an evolution of learning and working together.
Peace and love
Peace and love
foreverflyhi
Well-Known Member
Beautiful!!!!!!
been getting into this lately. Good job everyone
just curious, i have a 30 gallon smart pot with soil i used last years outdoor crop, its been sitting with no water other then rain every now and then. Is it ok to use? Is it true that fertilizers can get too potent if left dry? Or is this inly true for synthetics?, or micro heards died off from drought?
Was planning on throwing it in compost now that i have space....
been getting into this lately. Good job everyone
just curious, i have a 30 gallon smart pot with soil i used last years outdoor crop, its been sitting with no water other then rain every now and then. Is it ok to use? Is it true that fertilizers can get too potent if left dry? Or is this inly true for synthetics?, or micro heards died off from drought?
Was planning on throwing it in compost now that i have space....