Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[anzohaze]

does or has anyone used a rotten log when it can just crumble in your hand as a growing medium?

I no @greasemonkeymann uses rotted tree trunks in his soil and loves it.

 

[Darth Vapour]

well i am thinking about wine this year

 

[Darth Vapour]

So many things a person can put into there soil and it will work great for instance all my yearly out door flowers get chopped and placed in soil , my fall fires same thing applies charcoal boards half burnt and half just wood turned into soil
All my grass clippings , leafs and fall clean up into open pits in my garden once pits are filled i cover them

 

[greasemonkeymann]

does or has anyone used a rotten log when it can just crumble in your hand as a growing medium?

I have used those for a while now, I highly recommend them for drier climates, in particular.
You want to get them relatively small, like no bigger than 3/4" squared, and you also want to charge them prior to adding to your soil, treat them sorta like biochar, only they hold moisture REALLY well, you'll water less with this in your mix, and the soil will stay a more humid state, longer.
Highly recommend.
Only use the stuff that is extremely well rotten, NOT the harder stuff, that will rob your soil as it breaks down. If you can't easily crumble it, I would find something different, I also don't prefer the bark part of the tree, as I speculate the tars/resins/tree sap therein may cause unpredictable changes in the soil, which may be harmless, beneficial, or detrimental... I don't know, so I don't use it.
If possible, it's better to find a log that is still somewhat moist (if you are in california, like me, good luck with THAT)

 

[greasemonkeymann]

So many things a person can put into there soil and it will work great for instance all my yearly out door flowers get chopped and placed in soil , my fall fires same thing applies charcoal boards half burnt and half just wood turned into soil
All my grass clippings , leafs and fall clean up into open pits in my garden once pits are filled i cover them

so true man, I really believe the secret to growing easy, awesome herb is simply a really diverse and thoroughly composted compost/humus source.
I wish I would have realized this decades ago, it really is simple.
And like a diet, the more diverse you get, the better, and less likely you'll EVER have any deficiencies.

 

[ShLUbY]

I have used those for a while now, I highly recommend them for drier climates, in particular.
You want to get them relatively small, like no bigger than 3/4" squared, and you also want to charge them prior to adding to your soil, treat them sorta like biochar, only they hold moisture REALLY well, you'll water less with this in your mix, and the soil will stay a more humid state, longer.
Highly recommend.
Only use the stuff that is extremely well rotten, NOT the harder stuff, that will rob your soil as it breaks down. If you can't easily crumble it, I would find something different, I also don't prefer the bark part of the tree, as I speculate the tars/resins/tree sap therein may cause unpredictable changes in the soil, which may be harmless, beneficial, or detrimental... I don't know, so I don't use it.
If possible, it's better to find a log that is still somewhat moist (if you are in california, like me, good luck with THAT)

yeah i live in MI and rotten moist logs are a common thing around here. Like you say, the only ones i was thinking about using are ones which would crumble in your hand. generally look for a very old rotted one laying that has taken on a dark brown color. i'll find some this week and take some pics and post. they should just decompose farther to black dirt like woods chips do, right? I have heard of a few no tillers using bark as mulch.... have you ever practiced this?

Also I am considering getting some very rich organic soil from a field, and from the forest. there are some oak growths around me that are pretty well aged and I would think i could get some really microbial rich earth from those old oak growths...

 

[greasemonkeymann]

yeah i live in MI and rotten moist logs are a common thing around here. Like you say, the only ones i was thinking about using are ones which would crumble in your hand. generally look for a very old rotted one laying that has taken on a dark brown color. i'll find some this week and take some pics and post. they should just decompose farther to black dirt like woods chips do, right? I have heard of a few no tillers using bark as mulch.... have you ever practiced this?

Also I am considering getting some very rich organic soil from a field, and from the forest. there are some oak growths around me that are pretty well aged and I would think i could get some really microbial rich earth from those old oak growths...

you know, it's weird, I haven't seen them degrade further than what they are, they don't break down into humus the same that wood chips do. I've used wood chips before and after you get them hot, and they get that steamy white "frosty" looking mold/fungus/bacteria/whatever they disappear quickly, but there is something different to the log chunks, at least for me, BUT keep in mind I use redwood tree chunks, so perhaps theres a different quality to it.
But they've been in my mix for a while, and they aren't degrading any further, at least to where I can tell.

 

[Darth Vapour]

so true man, I really believe the secret to growing easy, awesome herb is simply a really diverse and thoroughly composted compost/humus source.
I wish I would have realized this decades ago, it really is simple.
And like a diet, the more diverse you get, the better, and less likely you'll EVER have any deficiencies.

Grease monkey i shit you not years n years ago i made posts about making your own nutrients , teas , etc and i got laughed at how my simple soil took care of itself and most importantly my plants ,, growing plants is nothing understanding what plant needs and most importantly under standing soil ....
Growing up in the agricultural area and also coming from strict uprising being parents were European i was forced to learn how to farm never had the luxury of doing kid things sleep overs and what have you ,,, it was go go go morning chores , school , and back to work by the time i was 13 i could take a tractor completely apart engine and all and put it back together , just from picking up soil i would know being taught from father what it was lacking that my friends is skillz
And that art is lost
What bothers me today is seems every couple of years people come up with some idea like no till gardening and i crack up how everyone these days jump the band wagon when everything was right in front of us all the time ..
like i said i showed the most simpliest soil anyone can make and with that said it was plant and walk away and let mother nature feed her and water her the first stage was excellent now 3rd week plus she is still nice lush n green and doing well an all i used was literally half in half top soil and compost

As for organic growing we cannot cut corners like many do and think there growing organic or how ever i am a firm believer that till gardening is still much superior then no till
i just wish that someone would do a side by side i think people would be shocked at the outcome .. till vs no till i see big problems eventually with no till hence in nature most no till areas/ forests naturally etc as i worked in the logging industry .. and was shocked at how many good tree cuts compared to dead standing or mutant deformed trees in what we could call NO till area or untouched now some are due to insect but then again we can say well how come one would think that no till trees would have its natural defenses 100 percent this is not the case anyways blabbing along
i pretty shocked how my plant is doing considering such a simple soil and only rain water

last picture is prepping my indoor live soil

 

[ShLUbY]

Grease monkey i shit you not years n years ago i made posts about making your own nutrients , teas , etc and i got laughed at how my simple soil took care of itself and most importantly my plants ,, growing plants is nothing understanding what plant needs and most importantly under standing soil ....
Growing up in the agricultural area and also coming from strict uprising being parents were European i was forced to learn how to farm never had the luxury of doing kid things sleep overs and what have you ,,, it was go go go morning chores , school , and back to work by the time i was 13 i could take a tractor completely apart engine and all and put it back together , just from picking up soil i would know being taught from father what it was lacking that my friends is skillz
And that art is lost
What bothers me today is seems every couple of years people come up with some idea like no till gardening and i crack up how everyone these days jump the band wagon when everything was right in front of us all the time ..
like i said i showed the most simpliest soil anyone can make and with that said it was plant and walk away and let mother nature feed her and water her the first stage was excellent now 3rd week plus she is still nice lush n green and doing well an all i used was literally half in half top soil and compost

As for organic growing we cannot cut corners like many do and think there growing organic or how ever i am a firm believer that till gardening is still much superior then no till
i just wish that someone would do a side by side i think people would be shocked at the outcome .. till vs no till i see big problems eventually with no till hence in nature most no till areas/ forests naturally etc as i worked in the logging industry .. and was shocked at how many good tree cuts compared to dead standing or mutant deformed trees in what we could call NO till area or untouched now some are due to insect but then again we can say well how come one would think that no till trees would have its natural defenses 100 percent this is not the case anyways blabbing along
i pretty shocked how my plant is doing considering such a simple soil and only rain water

last picture is prepping my indoor live soil View attachment 3505676 View attachment 3505677 View attachment 3505678 View attachment 3505679

i think you're missing the point of no till. the purpose is to leave your microheard alone. no one is saying they wont repopulate once the land has been tilled. but it's better to leave them alone. people doing no till are still doing the SAME EXACT THING AS YOU ARE. they are mulching (amending) their soils with compost, EWC, ect. forms of humus. you are both achieving the same thing so to say one is better than the other is unjust. i don't disagree with you, if you amend your soil every year while tilling it up, you're going to have a good garden.

no disrespect darth, but these trees that are falling in number due to pest and disease have nothing to do with "no till" at all. they are the direct result of globalization. forest populations are being decimated by foreign organisms, just like our lakes and streams are from foreign aquatic life. Example; dutch elm disease, emerald ash borer, varroa bee mites, zebra mussel in great lakes... all foreign. the reason they don't affect their own native habitats is because of evolutionary processes that inherited traits of defense against them. the system balances itself and everything has its niche until something gets off balance. these things happen all the time. its called evolution. soon there will be insect/disease resistant lifeforms of these same trees/plants/organisms that were once on the brink of endangerment.

NO TILL farming is all about the ease of work. there are enough studies that show tilling land is like ransacking the home of your microlife, just as your home would be ransacked if someone robbed it. Organic is not just about no till- its about the cleanliness/safety for yourself of the things you use in your garden. if it's a bandwagon everyone is gonna jump on, probably one of the better things human race can embrace.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

i think you're missing the point of no till. the purpose is to leave your microheard alone. no one is saying they wont repopulate once the land has been tilled. but it's better to leave them alone. people doing no till are still doing the SAME EXACT THING AS YOU ARE. they are mulching (amending) their soils with compost, EWC, ect. forms of humus. you are both achieving the same thing so to say one is better than the other is unjust. i don't disagree with you, if you amend your soil every year while tilling it up, you're going to have a good garden.

no disrespect darth, but these trees that are falling in number due to pest and disease have nothing to do with "no till" at all. they are the direct result of globalization. forest populations are being decimated by foreign organisms, just like our lakes and streams are from foreign aquatic life. Example; dutch elm disease, emerald ash borer, varroa bee mites, zebra mussel in great lakes... all foreign. the reason they don't affect their own native habitats is because of evolutionary processes that inherited traits of defense against them. the system balances itself and everything has its niche until something gets off balance. these things happen all the time. its called evolution. soon there will be insect/disease resistant lifeforms of these same trees/plants/organisms that were once on the brink of endangerment.

NO TILL farming is all about the ease of work. there are enough studies that show tilling land is like ransacking the home of your microlife, just as your home would be ransacked if someone robbed it. Organic is not just about no till- its about the cleanliness/safety for yourself of the things you use in your garden. if it's a bandwagon everyone is gonna jump on, probably one of the better things human race can embrace.

I'm not a strict no-till grower.
In smartpots with high amounts of compost I find the soil gets compacted after about three runs.
Besides my secret weapon is my compost, so I do like to re mix with that.
I saw an issue with soil having compaction problems especially after adding a lot of mulch on top.
I do see an advantage of using legumes for your pots if you have two sets... key is to allow them to die back and compost back into the soil or it's pointless.

 

[Darth Vapour]

we can sit here all day going back and forth on good points and bad points on both styles the truth is everyone uses the air nitrogen microbes get disturbed cause the top few inches of soil is disrupted but is it ?? i mean one table spoon of soil can have billions of microbes when looking at tillers or for instance there really disrupting top 6 - 12 "inches or so max pending on disc or roto tiller there more like 6 " arms for personal garden i use spade but lots of the microbes are not buried some go deeper again millions are turned and still end up on top ..
the biggest issues with tilling IMO is loss of top soil gone in the wind
its again funny how many suggest that tilling will infact cause more compacting then no till which i find to be a load of crap
Simple really to think you going to get more compact soil from tilling here is a experiment dig a hole 3 feet deep by 3 feet wide and fill it back up with the same soil you took out
Wait a minute how come the soil does not fill hole ???
have you ever wondered how come when a person digs a hole there is never enough dirt to fill it up either its to much dirt due to air being mixed in or 9 times out of 10 not enough dirt
lets face it Dirt is only true organic form soil on other hand is man made we should really seperate the 2 dirt being untouched soil being touched by man in some way or form

I have never taken a class in soil science and perhaps the answer is discussed there.But no one seems to mention this bizarre phenomenon in the nursery trade- perhaps due to the embarrassment of not being able to explain it all?Maybe it's the worms- they are eating the dirt, digesting it, and turning it into some gaseous product that sails off into the upper atmosphere (greenhouse gases?).Is it a more complex reaction of dirt mixing with water and just making mud?That still wouldn't explain the missing-dirt-from-a-freshly-dug-hole phenomenon, though.

I will never look at dirt the same again.It sort of scares me now to dig holes as I assume I am upsetting some delicate balance in the universe, and that is why all the ‘extra' dirt is whisked away surreptitiously into some other dimension.Perhaps I will find it after I die.Just be sure when I do die, you bring extra dirt to fill the hole they put me in!

 

[VTMi'kmaq]

yeah i get down with gypsum!

 

[Darth Vapour]

Oh i should of said to think no till is much easier is plain wrong the biggest concern presently with no till is Nitrogen management and as for no till TBH there only good for so long where compacting becomes to great usually 5 - 6 years time they must be tilled and start all over

 

[Darth Vapour]

All i am trying to say is experiment find out what works best for your situation from tilling to no till to companion planting.
Experiment and find the one style, that suits you and your area do not believe everything that is said from forums like this one or any other tweak enjoy and observe you grows and eventually you will find a perfect combo.
As for me i will always till

 

[hyroot]

If you use cover crops. It helps keep the soil loose and not get compacted. Having worms in your pots will definitely improve aeration and prevent soil compacting too.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Found this growing in one of my containers. I've had little shrooms pop up before, but never one this big. Any idea what variety this is? @Javadog ?

 

[Darth Vapour]

eat it lol its called the Areola mushroom lol note second pic its making me horny lol well i would look in what grows as in wild mushrooms in your area i would think it would make you sick ,, but who knows i am no expert on shrooms

 

[ShLUbY]

Found this growing in one of my containers. I've had little shrooms pop up before, but never one this big. Any idea what variety this is? @Javadog ?

View attachment 3506011 View attachment 3506013 View attachment 3506015

it actually looks like a meadow mushroom to me. I spend a lot of time in the woods gathering wild mushrooms and other edibles. the mushroom that it looks like grows in lawns typically. do you add soil to your mix from an outdoor location? I mean honestly, there are so many white, gilled mushrooms that look similar to the naked eye from one another. Spore print is a way to help with the identification. leave it out on some paper or clear wrap and wait for it to spore out if you want to. you can use measurements of the cap and stem to help with ID after you get spore print. if you actually wanna spend the time to ID it lol

 

[st0wandgrow]

it actually looks like a meadow mushroom to me. I spend a lot of time in the woods gathering wild mushrooms and other edibles. the mushroom that it looks like grows in lawns typically. do you add soil to your mix from an outdoor location? I mean honestly, there are so many white, gilled mushrooms that look similar to the naked eye from one another. Spore print is a way to help with the identification. leave it out on some paper or clear wrap and wait for it to spore out if you want to. you can use measurements of the cap and stem to help with ID after you get spore print. if you actually wanna spend the time to ID it lol

There's some leaf mold in this mix that came from a pile in my backyard. I figured that's where it came from, just wasn't sure what type it was.

And no Darth, I'm not going to eat it. lol

 

[VTMi'kmaq]

lmao, smart man!^^^^^ field guide referances are a must for fungi. Had a neighbor lose a puppy last year getting curious with field mushrooms sadly enough. So best to err on the side of caution with unknown shroomies, imho esp white gilled one's!