Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
too dry is better than too wet... i dunno about that honestly, as they each have their own evils over extended periods of time. too wet for too long... yeah problems. but too wet for only one watering gets resolved quickly by a well established plant with a good root system and adequate light for transpiration. Too dry for too long and your soil biology shuts down and then you experience lack of nutrition from nutrients not being solubilized. i'd much rather have that consistent moisture all the time and never give the peat a chance to get hydrophobic. never experienced pH problems doing this, yields are great, and soil biology is happy. This is why SIP containers work so great... constant moisture, but at the right levels all the time.

weighing containers is a great approach. that's why i use the lift method. i have a good idea of what their weight should be from growing for so long. just comes 2nd nature :)
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
too dry is better than too wet... i dunno about that honestly, as they each have their own evils over extended periods of time. too wet for too long... yeah problems. but too wet for only one watering gets resolved quickly by a well established plant with a good root system and adequate light for transpiration. Too dry for too long and your soil biology shuts down and then you experience lack of nutrition from nutrients not being solubilized. i'd much rather have that consistent moisture all the time and never give the peat a chance to get hydrophobic. never experienced pH problems doing this, yields are great, and soil biology is happy. This is why SIP containers work so great... constant moisture, but at the right levels all the time.

weighing containers is a great approach. that's why i use the lift method. i have a good idea of what their weight should be from growing for so long. just comes 2nd nature :)
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Too wet for too long is WAY worse than letting your soil dry out completely between waterings. It's not even close.
Ever run 30 gallon pots? Good luck lifting them. Even 10s are a pain when there's a giant plant sticking out of them.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Too wet for too long is WAY worse than letting your soil dry out completely between waterings. It's not even close.
Ever run 30 gallon pots? Good luck lifting them. Even 10s are a pain when there's a giant plant sticking out of them.
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i run 20 and 25 gals. no need to lift them when they're on 4wheel dollies. i dont like to lift heavy pots in effort to prevent soil compaction as much as possible.

and yeah i mean if we're gonna pick the more of the two evils, then yeah overwatering constantly is bad... but honestly if you run 40-45% drainage it's pretty friggin hard to overwater your pots, especially in fabric containers.

but still, inactive microherd is bad as well. plant yields will diminish, i've seen it happen first hand. i mean yeah, any yield is better than no yield. but, letting soil dry completely is just bad practice in living soil when things are functioning properly and there are no problems (even though soil never dries completely, it still maintains a thin film of water, even at the wilting point of the plant).

it's all about that perfect, constant moisture content. that's why sip containers work so amazingly and plants do remarkable in them. fully functioning microherd all the time, plant and microbes respond to their environment at full potential.
 
Mazer

Mazer

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Constant moisture in organic soil can cause PH problems -- and all the badness that comes with it (lockouts, rot, etc).
But it really boils down to terminology. What is "wet", and what is "moist"?I use kitty litter, but hydroton also works (more expensive).
The clay doesn't hold a lot of moisture, but it holds onto it tightly. In other words, the surrounding soil could by bone dry but there's still a tad of moisture stuck in the clay. It's also VERY porous, so microbes love it.
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Dear Chunky Stool,
I have concerns about soil compaction and aeration. I use red lava in my mix for that purpose. It takes up about 20 to 30% of my ROL soil volume(soon to be switch to no till). I just found a huge bag of expanded clay pellets under a shelf in the garage. You seem to have experience using them in your mix. Do you think they are any better than lava rock? what ration in the soil?
Aeratingly yours,
M
 
Magdup

Magdup

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
But if you use Kitty Litter or that stuff they sell at NAPA (I can't remember the name :dunce:) make sure you filter out the small, sandy particles before adding it to your soil.
And rinse it first or it will raise PH. (Not good, can cause lockouts.) :o
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Thank you man for taking time and being so helpful!!! You are right overwatering is even worse!!! Did that on my other run.
 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Growers many time try to water their way out of an overwatering situation without realizing it. Drainage is really important with LEDs and keeping your root zone in your pots comfortably warm in the cold months is a huge must! That alone will prevent many overwatering troubles.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Mazer said:
Dear Chunky Stool,
I have concerns about soil compaction and aeration. I use red lava in my mix for that purpose. It takes up about 20 to 30% of my ROL soil volume(soon to be switch to no till). I just found a huge bag of expanded clay pellets under a shelf in the garage. You seem to have experience using them in your mix. Do you think they are any better than lava rock? what ration in the soil?
Aeratingly yours,
M
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As long as the clay doesn't clump it should be fine. Not sure if it's better than lava, but I like it.
To avoid compaction you need a consistent particle size. That's why I filter out the little stuff.
Up to 50% is fine, but I wouldn't go over that. Al Tapla wrote a good article about compaction an the use of clay. I'll see if I can find it.
 
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Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
One of my favorite mixes for seedlings and small plants is 60/40 screened calcined clay and peat.
In fact, I've got two trays of dianthus seedlings growing in it right now:
IMG_1342.jpg
 
Mazer

Mazer

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Found it!
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1423691/container-soils-water-movement-and-retention-xvi
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Dear Chunky stool,
This article is indeed very interesting. I thank you for sharing it!
I made my signature out of a sentence found in it :
"We become better growers by improving our ability to reduce the effects of limiting factors, or by eliminating those limiting factors entirely; in other words, by clearing out those influences that stand in the way of the plant reaching its genetic potential."

in the other article it says:
"Can I use clay pellets? No. It breaks down so fast you'll quickly lose the aeration ability of the mix"
Is it not what hydrotons are?

Thankfuly yours,
 
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