Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
I am hooked on Dynagro ProTekt for silica. I want to move on, but what's as good for Si, K, and as an emulsifier for feeding and foliar? DE is a messy foliar and isn't an emulsifier...I think. Horsetail isn't an option...yet. I've been putting rice hulls in worm bins for Si. Any reasonable suggestions? I'm not Martha Stewert or Amish, but I am local.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
I am hooked on Dynagro ProTekt for silica. I want to move on, but what's as good for Si, K, and as an emulsifier for feeding and foliar? DE is a messy foliar and isn't an emulsifier...I think. Horsetail isn't an option...yet. I've been putting rice hulls in worm bins for Si. Any reasonable suggestions? I'm not Martha Stewert or Amish, but I am local.
Click to expand...
If you have seepage or open water at time, even in the city, I bet you would find horsetails, maybe there's another hindrance I don't know. I live in the urban jungle and these bastards grow everywhere. I have some rotting away with some stinging nettle in half gallon mason, hope it lasts a few months...

Or Diatomaceous earth...Food grade...Red Lake is goodah.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
Another question if I may......

Just sourced Neem leaves from the local organic grocer, apparently they carry them in bulk, which is cool, but no karanja oil.

I have been reading thru and taking some notes, but can't quite remember somebody doing whole leaves. Could they be a little more potent than powdered? Going to grind and sift anyway...

Just wanted to check and make sure I follow the meal recipe for Neem. :peace:
 
NickNasty

NickNasty

Well-Known Member
Neem Oil and Neem Cake are not made from the leaves but the fruits and seeds of the Neem tree. The Neem oil is pressed from the fruits and seeds and what is left is Neem Cake. I had not heard of anyone using Neem leaf as a fertilizer so I did a bit of searching and found they do use it sometimes as a fertilizer in India, it helps hold nitrogen in the soil and when added to tomato plants they showed quicker development and better structural growth. I also dug up and I thought was interesting is when used in vermicompost the worms were more active and broke down the food faster. So if I were going to use it in my garden I would probably feed it to my worms and then feed that to the plants, it would be already broken down and the worms seem to like it as food.
 
boblawblah421

boblawblah421

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Another question if I may......

Just sourced Neem leaves from the local organic grocer, apparently they carry them in bulk, which is cool, but no karanja oil.

I have been reading thru and taking some notes, but can't quite remember somebody doing whole leaves. Could they be a little more potent than powdered? Going to grind and sift anyway...

Just wanted to check and make sure I follow the meal recipe for Neem. :peace:
Click to expand...
You can definitely use the leaves from a neem tree, it just won't be nearly as potent. I have made a neem leaf tea before, and it was oily, but not like a tea made from neem seed meal, or of course, straight neem oil.
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
foreverflyhi said:
Well, some no tillers use dyna gro sillica.. But regaurdless the whole nutrient line is petroliom based and thats what most of us no till rols folk try to stay away from. I say if u absolutely must keep the soil, then by all means work with it and add a shit load of ewc and compsost. I say start over
Click to expand...
would it work to cook it in a compost pile and re-amend it somehow?
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Okay first I want to state my ROLS is a halfway ROLS if that, in that I did not have the opportunity to properly refresh the organic matter in the soil.

I simply loosed the soil in the pots, removed base soil with root ball from previous plants that were just harvested.
Then I placed some high end quality potting soil light on NPK a well rounded blend. However in these 1 gallon pots I was reusing for ROLS I was only able to add a couple inches to the bottom and placed new transplant with mychro's in semi ROLS pot again I really hadn't much shot to re-amend the soil and had not been really adding compost to the soil for I had these cloth pots nestled into 2 gallon pots with the hot soil that fed the plants during flower which were started originally in Black Gold Organic compost in these 1 gallon pots.

So I really milked the cow on this one with these pots, this is how wonderful organic growing is. During the veg state of these newly transplanted clones into this pseudo ROLS pots I watered with LAB, then alfalfa tea, then later some molasses. Everything going well good growth color and leaf posture good to go. Then I thought I really want to boost my soil life, protozoa and nematodes boost, used some great OLY fish compost brewing in aerated water.

So I added these creatures and boom things start taking off exponential growth and if that weren't enough what I didn't water with the just the critter brew I used with kelp and molasses and brewed another 36 hours, got a great earthy smell no foul rotten eggs or ammonia type smell. Healthy aerated bacteria... yeppie yi yo!

Then days later signs of nitrogen deficiency in new growth stunted very light green from stem out to tips then darker light green.
Then it hit me this soil was never recharged sufficiently with nitrogen and the massive microlife added eat the shit out of what was there and for a moment in time no readily available N for a plant that just recently lifted off and was in its 2nd stage boosters and then N FUEL Shortage...err.

Major Tom to Ground Control ...... so not panicking and picking up the latest overpriced synthetic Nitrogen which would of over night solved the N issue but thus effectively rendering my soil web useless and making me use synthetic the rest of the way. YUCK FACE HERE! :-x

I thought through again that effectively once these beast finishing feeding they should replenish the soil and the microlife there can help balance it out if I just add some more natural organic N. So I went with some strong alpha tea again stop feeding with Molasses to not encourage another feast on the little N in the soil. I then added top dressing another inch of Oly Fish compost and plain water the last few days.

And I am happy to report the soil web is doing it's thing new soild green new growth lower leaf sets filled in well not completely of course.
So I guess I found out real life possible to generate a soil web with microlife that can eat up available N too quickly if there growth gets out of hand. So I well be watching just how much carb (molasses) to ensure I don't tip the scale and stress my babies.

Anyone else have any similar experience when recycling pots right away?
I reference this for I think my C:N ratio got a little out of hand and had a negative effect on available N in my soil.
The following from:http://www.extension.org/pages/24726...s#.UqwHpPRDsXw

Nitrogen mineralization in the soil occurs at a higher rate when bacterial-feeding nematodes are present than when they are absent. The contribution of bacterial-feeding nematodes to soil N supply depends, in part, on the quality and quantity of soil organic matter fueling the system. Net N mineralization from decomposing organic residues takes place when the carbon:nitrogen (C:N) ratio of organic residue is below 20 (that is, 20 parts C to 1 part N). When the C:N ratio is greater than 30, the rate of mineralization decreases because microbes compete for N to meet their nutritional requirements. In this situation, N is immobilized in the microbial biomass. Incorporation of manure, compost, and cover crops with intermediate C:N ratios (ranging from 10 to 1
may stimulate bacterial growth and the abundance of bacterial-feeding nematodes, and increase soil N availability to plants.

DankSwag
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
DANKSWAG said:
Okay first I want to state my ROLS is a halfway ROLS if that, in that I did not have the opportunity to properly refresh the organic matter in the soil.

I simply loosed the soil in the pots, removed base soil with root ball from previous plants that were just harvested.
Then I placed some high end quality potting soil light on NPK a well rounded blend. However in these 1 gallon pots I was reusing for ROLS I was only able to add a couple inches to the bottom and placed new transplant with mychro's in semi ROLS pot again I really hadn't much shot to re-amend the soil and had not been really adding compost to the soil for I had these cloth pots nestled into 2 gallon pots with the hot soil that fed the plants during flower which were started originally in Black Gold Organic compost in these 1 gallon pots.

So I really milked the cow on this one with these pots, this is how wonderful organic growing is. During the veg state of these newly transplanted clones into this pseudo ROLS pots I watered with LAB, then alfalfa tea, then later some molasses. Everything going well good growth color and leaf posture good to go. Then I thought I really want to boost my soil life, protozoa and nematodes boost, used some great OLY fish compost brewing in aerated water.

So I added these creatures and boom things start taking off exponential growth and if that weren't enough what I didn't water with the just the critter brew I used with kelp and molasses and brewed another 36 hours, got a great earthy smell no foul rotten eggs or ammonia type smell. Healthy aerated bacteria... yeppie yi yo!

Then days later signs of nitrogen deficiency in new growth stunted very light green from stem out to tips then darker light green.
Then it hit me this soil was never recharged sufficiently with nitrogen and the massive microlife added eat the shit out of what was there and for a moment in time no readily available N for a plant that just recently lifted off and was in its 2nd stage boosters and then N FUEL Shortage...err.

Major Tom to Ground Control ...... so not panicking and picking up the latest overpriced synthetic Nitrogen which would of over night solved the N issue but thus effectively rendering my soil web useless and making me use synthetic the rest of the way. YUCK FACE HERE! :-x

I thought through again that effectively once these beast finishing feeding they should replenish the soil and the microlife there can help balance it out if I just add some more natural organic N. So I went with some strong alpha tea again stop feeding with Molasses to not encourage another feast on the little N in the soil. I then added top dressing another inch of Oly Fish compost and plain water the last few days.

And I am happy to report the soil web is doing it's thing new soild green new growth lower leaf sets filled in well not completely of course.
So I guess I found out real life possible to generate a soil web with microlife that can eat up available N too quickly if there growth gets out of hand. So I well be watching just how much carb (molasses) to ensure I don't tip the scale and stress my babies.

Anyone else have any similar experience when recycling pots right away?
I reference this for I think my C:N ratio got a little out of hand and had a negative effect on available N in my soil.
The following from:http://www.extension.org/pages/24726...s#.UqwHpPRDsXw

Nitrogen mineralization in the soil occurs at a higher rate when bacterial-feeding nematodes are present than when they are absent. The contribution of bacterial-feeding nematodes to soil N supply depends, in part, on the quality and quantity of soil organic matter fueling the system. Net N mineralization from decomposing organic residues takes place when the carbon:nitrogen (C:N) ratio of organic residue is below 20 (that is, 20 parts C to 1 part N). When the C:N ratio is greater than 30, the rate of mineralization decreases because microbes compete for N to meet their nutritional requirements. In this situation, N is immobilized in the microbial biomass. Incorporation of manure, compost, and cover crops with intermediate C:N ratios (ranging from 10 to 1
may stimulate bacterial growth and the abundance of bacterial-feeding nematodes, and increase soil N availability to plants.

DankSwag
Click to expand...
My recommendation is to ensure good quality of N in biomass before increasing the numbers of bacteria eating nematodes to avoid deficiency and maintain exponential growth. But I think in long run would balance itself out naturally those over feed critters will excrete the N they eat. Letting soil dry to minimize activity ultimately would be more detrimental. So I would maintain temp and moisture levels to ensure biology continues it process, it has to shit that N back into the soil sometime. Anywise seems like a good way to gage your N level in your soil boost your nematodes and microbes and let them compete for N and see how long your plants can take it! Hopefully it's like a fad diet and they really pack it on from here out!

DankSwag
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
^^^ lol... I had to repeat that question, say the question out loud, and even reword the question just to understand it.. Hehe

my awnser would be depends.

if the soil is properly cooked with the right ingrediants and ratios then it may have a head start then no till.. However is this no till soil u speak of already been amended, used and aged? If so then No till would b better. Lol
 
RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
My soil has been amended, cooked, inoculated even more, and has living mulch. It's in its first gen. Just trying to think about what I'm going to do with it in a few months. Let it be and have a second gen ready, or mix it into another fresh batch. I'm thinking two separate gens would be best right?
 
boblawblah421

boblawblah421

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
I did a 1 gal 36 hour brew with a tsp of ahimsa neem cake, 1T kelp, and 1 tsp alfalfa. Got a slight burn...had to be the neem.
Click to expand...
I use about a tablespoon and a half of neem for a 4.5 gallon brew. If I have kelp, or alfalfa in there as well, I will use slightly less than a tablespoon. Not one bit of burn with this recipe so far. I do also make sure to do it early in the morning, and leave only a few T5's on in the room for about two hours before I turn my HID's back on. I let it all brew in a bucket and pour it through a paint strainer into my sprayer. Solid pieces of neem will be left in the bottom of the paint strainer, which I then steep like a tea bag. I also repeatedly squeeze the paint strainer and watch straight neem oil come out.

Also... DE won't leave that greyish residue on your plants if you go super sparingly on it when used in foliars. Just use it often. As far as it being an emulsifier, I can't find an exact answer anywhere. However, with all of the different types of oily plants that I blend and put into my foliars on a regular basis, one or more of them have got to be emulsifiers.
 
RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
Think my neem cake burn was due to me crushing it in mortor. It was only just a little anyway. I've done much worse lol. It'd be so easy if I just grew the same strains and dialed in the teas. What's the fun in that anyway.

Have a safe New Years earlbody!!!
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
I have a dumb question...is cooked soil worse than no till if you inoculate with a compost tea?
Click to expand...
That's not a dumb question, my understanding is and I graciously leave space for correction here is that the heat is from the bacteria feeding on organic matter "composting" it. Simply put this kills off pathogens for the aeration promote "friendly aka helper" bacteria.

It is the Fungi that we add back into soil after heat has settled and ph range comes back up I believe it tends to go acidic 4.5 to 5.5 could be wrong here but from what I recall fungi need something closer to 7 then not to really thrive. Think forest soil composure.

"Cook" your soil when adding Hot sources of N, that generally is animal poo sources guano and animal manures. Of animals I think rabbit would be awesome next to worm poo. Those silly rabbits really love a veggie diet high in alfalfa.

Bottom line the break down of these hot N sources needs to occur for the benefit of soil web, then add Fungi Mychros to root \ soil area where roots will come into contact. Essentially your composting your new soil then adding mychros and maintaining a soil environment that is room temp and moist. Too cold, dry or wet soil will decrease microbe activity and population if extended for too long.

Anywise good question I hope I answered it correctly and informatively!
Happy New Year!
DankSwag
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top