Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Feed store sells DE for livestock and grain storage cheap.
That 8822 is like small gravel and acts in the mix like perlite/vermiculite hybrid.
 
SCJedi

SCJedi

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
It’s funny I was just about to make a thread asking people about their soil sustainability setups. I hate the term “super soil” because I think it sets the bar really low. All soil should be like it is in nature — a distinct ecosystem of microbes that work to continue the cycle of decay and growth. Nothing “super” about that. Just Mother Nature at work.

I’m an amateur mycologist as well as an amateur horticulturalist, so I’ve been into soil recycling since before I even knew it was a thing. I don’t flush and I add very little liquid nutes throughout the flowering cycle, because most of the magic happens in the big grey bin next to my grow tent. My process is as follows. For building new soil, I start with a dry mix of peat, perlite, and vermiculite, at about 4:3:3. I hydrate that mix with warm water with epsom salt and blackstrap molasses stirred in. I never precisely measure it out, but it’s always about a tablespoon of epsom salt and 1/4 cup of molasses per gallon for new soil.

Once it’s hydrated, I add in some aged, leached horse manure and this stuff from Lowe’s — Jobe’s organic all purpose granular plant food. It’s loaded with good shit, but its main use is as an inoculant because it’s got a lot of beneficial microbes. I mix about a cup and a half of this stuff into the wet soil, and let it sit in the bin for a couple weeks. It’s ready when it no longer smells like shit.

For recycling soil out of pots it is a much simpler matter. I don’t flush, but I do finish with a product that binds salts and apparently triggers a stress response to pump up resin production at the end. It’s called “signal” from true plant science and it seems to do a great job. I’ve got some phenos that I was sure would take 10 weeks that look like they’ll be done in 8.

Once the plants are chopped down, I just break up the root mass, sift out as much root material as possible, and return the soil to the bin and mix everything really well. I don’t usually re-inoculate the used soil with the Jobe’s granules because I always keep enough leftover soil in the bin to act as a starter culture. If I think the nutes have been used up I’ll hit the soil again with everything. After another two weeks any remaining root mass is decomposed and the soil is ready for another round.

The soil that I’m using for these plants has already been recycled twice, and it really seems to get better with age. At this point I only have to buy an occasional bag of perlite or vermiculite. I bought a bale of peat moss at the beginning of the year and I’ve only used about half of it.

View attachment 4442711

Does anyone here have any feedback? After reading about my process can anyone think of anything I could be doing better or differently? My method obviously works but just because something works doesn’t mean there isn’t a better way. I’m going to start adding supplemental silica into the mix with the next grow. I’m wondering if I should just mix in some DE into the soil and if that will be enough or if I should use the liquid supplement I use for clones in addition.
Click to expand...
If it works for you don't change it. But if you want to tweak it...

Over long periods of time in a pot, perlite "floats" to the top and no longer provides the aeration for which it is intended. If it does not float it breaks down into a paste-like cement consistency but it takes a long time to do this. Anything "chunkier" should work better than perlite. While pumice is ideal not everyone lives near volcanos. I personally use GS-1 Growstones which is made from recycled beverage bottle, is about 3/4-, and works awesome. I think that big bag is something like $25 which makes it pricey for large-scale but is fine for my six 30 gallon pots, my lab tent, and my outdoor seed factory.

I don't use vermiculite as my base mix is 1/3 peat, 1/3 GS-1, and 1/3 Mailbu's Compost. The compost and peat will do any moisture retention that I need. From a food standpoint I mix in various things at planting but I also mulch, cover crop and occasionally topdress with EWC and Bu's.
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
I totally get what you’re saying about the perlite. There’s always a thick layer of it on top by the end of flowering. I’ve been using vermiculite out of habit for so many years in both horticulture and mycology that it’s just routine for me to add it in. I appreciate you bringing it up but I also believe it’s a decent source of silica. Maybe not better than DE but it’s cheap. I’m going to start adding DE for the silica and also for moisture indication, but I just haven’t had a chance to stop by Napa. The oil absorber at Lowe’s is fine perlite. I’m not going all over the place looking for an alternative when Napa isn’t that far. I never really used vermiculite for the purpose of holding water but always to give it more “earthiness”. I used to grow mushrooms but switched to weed for the much lower crop failure rate. I’d grow cubensis on 50/50 horse manure and vermiculite and I always thought of the vermiculite as more of a mineral.

The growstones sound badass and I’ll definitely look into them.

I did tweak my soil a bit since I joined this thread. I harvested one plant and returned 7 gallons of soil to the bin. I added a little bone meal this time instead of the all purpose granules. I like bone meal. More than anything I guess it will take time to see how it all works. I only got into growing pot at the beginning of this year. Got so tired of paying way too much for bad bud at the dispensary. This has saved me thousands since I had my first good harvest. I’m just excited to see how the next year of pheno hunting and soil tending goes, and how the plants and soil continue to get better together.
 
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mrplowdan

mrplowdan

Active Member
On page 84 of 465 so far...
The rabbit hole is getting deeper.

This thread has gotten my excited for the upcoming outdoor season. I've located in South Vancouver Island and I've been growing on an off, indoor and outdoor for 20ish years. Always just been growing for myself and haven't put a lot of effort into growing (I'm very much an amateur).

The last few years I've been growing in my little 1'x1'x2' home made grow box in a continuous cycle. As it's only a foot tall I harvest about 3 little trees a week, they are about 15g dry. Very cute.

I've always left the outdoor plants for my better half to care for. But now that it's legal it's time to step it up (love you baby if you somehow found this site/thread/my post).

I'm all new to organics and have just used GH Nova series in a nutrient free medium. I may be baked, tried from reading for 5 hrs, but I think I'm convinced to totally switch over to organic. I'm planning on buying 4 x 30 gal fabric bags.

I'm already planning on going down to the beach and collecting bull kelp, and oyster and crab shells. I need to read up on composting. There is an old compost bin in the back of my yard that hasn't been used in 10 years... It seems too small though. I'm near the forest so I'm sure I can find some decent dirt. Hopefully I'll be able to produce some compost by spring.

I have a bunch of posts favorited in this thread already to review later. I'm only up to the end of 2013 so I haven't really come up with a recipe yet.
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
mrplowdan said:
On page 84 of 465 so far...
The rabbit hole is getting deeper.

This thread has gotten my excited for the upcoming outdoor season. I've located in South Vancouver Island and I've been growing on an off, indoor and outdoor for 20ish years. Always just been growing for myself and haven't put a lot of effort into growing (I'm very much an amateur).

The last few years I've been growing in my little 1'x1'x2' home made grow box in a continuous cycle. As it's only a foot tall I harvest about 3 little trees a week, they are about 15g dry. Very cute.

I've always left the outdoor plants for my better half to care for. But now that it's legal it's time to step it up (love you baby if you somehow found this site/thread/my post).

I'm all new to organics and have just used GH Nova series in a nutrient free medium. I may be baked, tried from reading for 5 hrs, but I think I'm convinced to totally switch over to organic. I'm planning on buying 4 x 30 gal fabric bags.

I'm already planning on going down to the beach and collecting bull kelp, and oyster and crab shells. I need to read up on composting. There is an old compost bin in the back of my yard that hasn't been used in 10 years... It seems too small though. I'm near the forest so I'm sure I can find some decent dirt. Hopefully I'll be able to produce some compost by spring.

I have a bunch of posts favorited in this thread already to review later. I'm only up to the end of 2013 so I haven't really come up with a recipe yet.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you’ve got a great situation. I’ve always wanted to visit Vancouver Island. I’ve got a friend up there that grows shrooms and is a mod on the shroomery. If you want to do outdoors in living soil you will need a lot. It’s probably wet enough out there that you can compost in an open basket instead of a bin, and you will need a lot of compost, so I would recommend a compost basket made out of 4x4 posts and chicken wire. I would make it about two cubic yards (two full scoops of a bobcat bucket if that helps any).

I know this is getting out of soil territory and into construction, but I would recommend building a 3x3’, 18 inch raised box for each plant. You can do them in the ground too, like I did last year, but I think I’ll get a better yield if they start in better soil and only go into the ground once they’re established in the composted soil.
81CC5A3E-1A1A-488F-98D0-A70D3E9EA6E6.jpeg

You can throw pretty much any organic waste into a compost and it will improve it. Kitchen scraps, egg shells, and all that stuff you find on the beach will be great. There’s an outdoor grower here who helped me a lot with this outdoor grow. I can’t remember her handle but it was ganjagurl something and she gave me loads of good advice on my outdoor grow. When you’re ready to get these planted head over to the outdoor growing forum and find her. IIRC she mentioned doing raised boxes with straight horse manure and posted a pic of a main stem much bigger around than her entire wrist.

All I can do now is describe to you my method and philosophy that is very much founded in the disciplines of mycology and microbiology. Living soil is an underground ecosystem, just like the soil in your backyard which is also technically living soil.

The fir trees grow with the help of their symbiotic amanita muscaria mushroom, and also with the help of trichoderma and bacillus and lactobacillus and actinomyces and countless more. The organic contents of the soil are important, but that stuff is there to feed the microbes, which digest it into forms that the plants like. I don’t have an outdoor compost bin and I don’t compost any raw organic material. The only thing I’m interested in composting for my indoor growing is leftover roots in my recycled soil. I keep it all in a storage bin in my grow room. The actual soil is comprised of peat, vermiculite, and perlite. That’s the non-nutritious substrate (unless you count the silica in the verm which I do). To this I add field aged horse manure, for the nitrogen and actinomyces. I also add bone meal, epsom salt, blackstrap molasses, and an all purpose organic granular plant for from Lowe’s. Jobe’s all purpose granules.

The granules are made from bone meal, feather meal, and chicken shit, but they’re also loaded with microbes and that’s why I buy the stuff. I use it to inoculate my compost and I also mix some into my flowering pots for time released nutes.

One other caveat, is that I don’t use this as a replacement for liquid feeding, but rather a supplement. I still use liquid nutes in flower, and still have to hit my vegging plants with fish emulsion every now and then. I cultivate my soil this way because the plants do better in this environment than they would with just a plain soil mix and ion based ferts. It’s like the difference between drinking a protein shake and eating a USDA prime porterhouse. They’ll both give you what you need, but you’ll be a lot happier about the steak.

You can grow fine plants in miracle gro soil, feeding nothing but ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, and potash salt. Who would want to, when they can grow organic instead, is what I can’t figure out.
 
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mrplowdan

mrplowdan

Active Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
Sounds like you’ve got a great situation. I’ve always wanted to visit Vancouver Island. I’ve got a friend up there that grows shrooms and is a mod on the shroomery.
Click to expand...
The old lady and I had a couple grams of shrooms each on New Year's, it had been about a decade since the last time lol.

TerrapinBlazin said:
If you want to do outdoors in living soil you will need a lot. It’s probably wet enough out there that you can compost in an open basket instead of a bin, and you will need a lot of compost, so I would recommend a compost basket made out of 4x4 posts and chicken wire. I would make it about two cubic yards (two full scoops of a bobcat bucket if that helps any).
Click to expand...
That's a good idea, I may do that.

TerrapinBlazin said:
I know this is getting out of soil territory and into construction, but I would recommend building a 3x3’, 18 inch raised box for each plant. You can do them in the ground too, like I did last year, but I think I’ll get a better yield if they start in better soil and only go into the ground once they’re established in the composted soil.
Click to expand...
I kinda have to use some sort of bag/pot. The best light is right next to my house and I don't want to put a bed in that area.

TerrapinBlazin said:
You can throw pretty much any organic waste into a compost and it will improve it. Kitchen scraps, egg shells, and all that stuff you find on the beach will be great.
Click to expand...
Already starting to keep my peels and shells, instead of chucking then into the bush ;)

TerrapinBlazin said:
There’s an outdoor grower here who helped me a lot with this outdoor grow. I can’t remember her handle but it was ganjagurl something and she gave me loads of good advice on my outdoor grow. When you’re ready to get these planted head over to the outdoor growing forum and find her. IIRC she mentioned doing raised boxes with straight horse manure and posted a pic of a main stem much bigger around than her entire wrist.
Click to expand...
I may lurk over there for a bit, perhaps even join in. I'm generally an introvert.

TerrapinBlazin said:
All I can do now is describe to you my method and philosophy that is very much founded in the disciplines of mycology and microbiology. Living soil is an underground ecosystem, just like the soil in your backyard which is also technically living soil.

The fir trees grow with the help of their symbiotic amanita muscaria mushroom, and also with the help of trichoderma and bacillus and lactobacillus and actinomyces and countless more. The organic contents of the soil are important, but that stuff is there to feed the microbes, which digest it into forms that the plants like. I don’t have an outdoor compost bin and I don’t compost any raw organic material. The only thing I’m interested in composting for my indoor growing is leftover roots in my recycled soil. I keep it all in a storage bin in my grow room. The actual soil is comprised of peat, vermiculite, and perlite. That’s the non-nutritious substrate (unless you count the silica in the verm which I do). To this I add field aged horse manure, for the nitrogen and actinomyces. I also add bone meal, epsom salt, blackstrap molasses, and an all purpose organic granular plant for from Lowe’s. Jobe’s all purpose granules.

The granules are made from bone meal, feather meal, and chicken shit, but they’re also loaded with microbes and that’s why I buy the stuff. I use it to inoculate my compost and I also mix some into my flowering pots for time released nutes.

One other caveat, is that I don’t use this as a replacement for liquid feeding, but rather a supplement. I still use liquid nutes in flower, and still have to hit my vegging plants with fish emulsion every now and then. I cultivate my soil this way because the plants do better in this environment than they would with just a plain soil mix and ion based ferts. It’s like the difference between drinking a protein shake and eating a USDA prime porterhouse. They’ll both give you what you need, but you’ll be a lot happier about the steak.

You can grow fine plants in miracle gro soil, feeding nothing but ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, and potash salt. Who would want to, when they can grow organic instead, is what I can’t figure out.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice TerrapinBlazin.
 
mrplowdan

mrplowdan

Active Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
... you will need a lot of compost, so I would recommend a compost basket made out of 4x4 posts and chicken wire. I would make it about two cubic yards (two full scoops of a bobcat bucket if that helps any).
Click to expand...
Wouldn't I only need about 0.2 cubic yards to fill 4 x 30 gallon pots with the not 2 cubic yards?
Well not fill, it'll be 1/3 compost in each bag/pot.
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
Nah I wasn’t saying you need two cubic yards of compost, but I think that’s a good sized basket to shoot for. There’s nothing I hate more than running out of material in the middle of a project.
 
Polyuro

Polyuro

Well-Known Member
Looking to get buy some seeds now that Missouri is legal. Would like to find a strain for anxiety and and a strain for insomnia. Any info and suggestions would be great!!
 
DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
Where can I learn the basics? I'm paying over $30 a bag for Happy Frog and throwing it away after every grow. Is this possible to do entirely indoors?
 
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