Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[anomuumi]

Anyone that has had fusarium / verticilium wilt? Suggestions and all help really appreciated, first round of organics for me and this is something I really didn't prepare for. Half of vegging plants dead, one flowering plant almost dead and multiple infected ones flowering atm. I'm currently on second week of flowering and half of the girls look rough.

Plan is to hit whats still alive with foliar kelp extract (rose antifungal), aspirin (to induce SAR), potassium silicate 5ml/litre once a week with watering, LAB serum foliar and hope that I can drag the ladies to finish line. Yes, not fully organic approach, but I'm running out of ideas.

What to do after the round is done? Reamend with mycos and trichoderma or just ditch the soil? Even when I read that this is "impossible to get rid of", I'm still thinking my soil was just poor and plants would have fought this off if they would have been healthy from the start. Or am I completely wrong? I would hate to throw away all the goodies I mixed in, but dead plants are no good either.

Thanks!

 

[DANKSWAG]

My understanding is that the first phase of the process collects a whole lot of random micro-organisms. The second phase doesn't just multiply them; it selects the ones which perform well in the conditions you provide (sugar-loving things in the case of molasses, or lacto-fermenting ones if you give them milk). You can also select for aerobic or anaerobic life with short or long fermentation times, and the use of air pumps or lids on vessels.

While you could skip the second step, you would be providing fewer organisms, and you might get a higher ratio of some sorts you don't want.

wouldn't any microbes wanted or unwanted multiple as well or would the sugar loving ones simply overtake and nullify the others? What does short life fermentation produce verses long life. Are anaerobic that bad, wouldn't they go dormant or die if oxygen is added.

I know bokashi composting is all about anaerobic fermentation and then that material is actually placed in the ground where it is open to air and the critters in the ground to munch on it. This compost would be good source then once completed correct?

What are the signs of a higher ratio of microbes one does not want?

 

[OrganicEcoGrow]

Here is a working link to .pdf copies of "Teaming with Microbes" (http://ge.tt/9LYCbnC/v/1) and "Edible Forest Gardens Volume 2; Ecological Design & Practice for Temperate~Climate Permaculture" (http://ge.tt/9LYCbnC/v/2). All I did was Google search "Teaming with Microbes pdf" and it was available - wanted to let everyone here know as well. The second pdf seems like a gift for guerilla growers and gardeners. Good luck fellow growers

 

[Kalyx]

anomuumi

Anyone that has had fusarium / verticilium wilt? Suggestions and all help really appreciated, first round of organics for me and this is something I really didn't prepare for. Half of vegging plants dead, one flowering plant almost dead and multiple infected ones flowering atm. I'm currently on second week of flowering and half of the girls look rough.​

I just had a serious issue that I thought was fusarium at first. Mine turned out to be hemp russet mites. If you are sure its fusarium I would not recommend reusing the soil as its a soil borne pathogen. Unless of course you want to fully sterilize it and then reamend and get it alive again. Starting fresh is probably cheaper and easier.

Just make sure its not russet mites bro. Take your tric scope and look at the damaged areas. Russet mites are microscopic have only 2 pairs of legs and more resemble a grub than a typical spider mite. They cause many similar and confusing symptoms as fungal pathogens. Took me forever to figure out what was going on in my and many other gardens all around me. Russet mites; all over the place. Now to solve the problem...

 

[viewer1020]

wouldn't any microbes wanted or unwanted multiple as well or would the sugar loving ones simply overtake and nullify the others? What does short life fermentation produce verses long life. Are anaerobic that bad, wouldn't they go dormant or die if oxygen is added.

I know bokashi composting is all about anaerobic fermentation and then that material is actually placed in the ground where it is open to air and the critters in the ground to munch on it. This compost would be good source then once completed correct?

What are the signs of a higher ratio of microbes one does not want?

It's true that most microbes will multiply if you give them something to eat.

In cases where you want to maximize the ratio of one specific set (like when you want lacto-fermenters) then you can add just a teaspoon of your first brew to a large batch of the second feedstock; everything will multiply exponentially for a while, and the ones which perform best will have the sharpest exponential rise in population, so they will dominate the resulting brew.

Anaerobic decomposition is not bad. Organic farmers tend to avoid the random sort for several reasons:

- anaerobic decomposition by random organisms produces more methane.
- methane contains nitrogen, useful for plant growth when it was in the soil and not so useful when it escapes.
- methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.
- anaerobic decomposition is slow compared with aerobic.
- some anaerobic bacteria produce things which are toxic for humans (botulism).

However, the end product of the process (even the random sort) can be an excellent soil amendment. I believe the output of bokashi would be a great thing to include in a soil mix, and because it uses selected organisms, it doesn't have the problems listed above.

If you flood your soil with the "wrong" microbes, the chances are you're just going to fail to see the benefits you would see from adding good microbes. I guess there's a chance you could give the plants some disease or other problem, but if you've got a healthy soil ecosystem already, the existing balance should dominate over anything poured in from the top, good or bad.

I'm just learning about all this stuff myself, mostly from reading the ROLS threads around the various forums... seems a bit quiet in here so I'm just throwing in my perspective on the information I have until the more experienced growers turn their attention this way.

 

[GreenSanta]

be careful with bokashi i heard if u use too much it will eat ur roots alive

 

[Rrog]

Bokashi used in worm bins is consumed at warp speed. I find it a convenient countertop bucket. It's an addition to a thermal compost pile for me.

 

[GreenSanta]

that's how i use mine, to speed up compost!!

 

[anomuumi]

I just had a serious issue that I thought was fusarium at first. Mine turned out to be hemp russet mites. If you are sure its fusarium I would not recommend reusing the soil as its a soil borne pathogen. Unless of course you want to fully sterilize it and then reamend and get it alive again. Starting fresh is probably cheaper and easier.

Just make sure its not russet mites bro. Take your tric scope and look at the damaged areas. Russet mites are microscopic have only 2 pairs of legs and more resemble a grub than a typical spider mite. They cause many similar and confusing symptoms as fungal pathogens. Took me forever to figure out what was going on in my and many other gardens all around me. Russet mites; all over the place. Now to solve the problem...

Cheers for the tip! I'll hit them with heat treatment for every few days and let you know if it did anything.

Added 3 different beneficial fungal products, top dressed with EWC, lacto/EWC aeraeted tea's and foliars, silica, aspirin and so on.. Giving it everything I got.

 

[hyroot]

Would watering and spraying fresh aloe Vera to an aloe Vera plant be considered a form of cannibalism? Who ever said fresh aloe is only good for 20 min was far wrong. I froze some aloe leaves chopped in pieces for few weeks. Then blended it with some Ro water. I Store it in the freezer. I've used it every day for the last 4 days. My plants are praying instantly after spraying. My outdoor too. Yesterday I used same batch for cloning.

 

[Rrog]

Unfrozen fresh aloe oxidizes very fast...

 

[viewer1020]

What does short life fermentation produce verses long life.

People looking to maximize aerobic bacteria will bubble the tea continuously, and use it in the range of about 24-48 hours after it began.

Someone mentioned brewing for weeks, which will be anaerobic and stinking if not bubbled, and if you bubble for that long, the fast reproducers will have eaten all the sugar, and then the slower, stronger organisms will begin the dominate as they consume the dead.

I can't remember the details, but people who use microscopes to look at the life in their teas tend not to like the things which they see after 48+ hours bubbling.

 

[st0wandgrow]

People looking to maximize aerobic bacteria will bubble the tea continuously, and use it in the range of about 24-48 hours after it began.

Someone mentioned brewing for weeks, which will be anaerobic and stinking if not bubbled, and if you bubble for that long, the fast reproducers will have eaten all the sugar, and then the slower, stronger organisms will begin the dominate as they consume the dead.

I can't remember the details, but people who use microscopes to look at the life in their teas tend not to like the things which they see after 48+ hours bubbling.

I agree with all of that. But DANK mentioned fermentation. That's an all together different process, with a much different objective. People ferment a number of plants/weeds and often do so for a couple weeks. The idea is not to multiply microbes like an ACT, but instead to use the fermented extract as a pesticide, fungicide, nutrient, etc.

 

[Rrog]

I was intrigued by the fermented extracts, but am more excited about short-term bubbled teas. The longer term extractions lose some of the delicate molecules. Hormones, secondary metabolites, enzymes. Some of these are fleeting and the teas need to be used soon.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I was intrigued by the fermented extracts, but am more excited about short-term bubbled teas. The longer term extractions lose some of the delicate molecules. Hormones, secondary metabolites, enzymes. Some of these are fleeting and the teas need to be used soon.

I agree. I like the 24 hr bubble alfalfa/kelp one that you mentioned

 

[Mohican]

I think the long soaks are better for silica extraction. I just compost those plants and let nature do all the work


Here are a couple of plants enjoying the year old compost pile:






I had to put up a fence because something was digging into the pile at night and disturbing the plants.



Cheers,
Mo

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

Does anyone finely grind kelp and alfalfa meal before brewing or just let it go for a couple of days?

 

[hyroot]

I think the long soaks are better for silica extraction. I just compost those plants and let nature do all the work


Here are a couple of plants enjoying the year old compost pile:






I had to put up a fence because something was digging into the pile at night and disturbing the plants.



Cheers,
Mo

it was probably a cat. They love digging up dirt next to a plant and sometimes the plant. Or at least my catdog does. My cat thinks he's a dog.

 

[Snafu1236]

A truly fantastic thread. Been following it for quite a while now but have not commented much.

I have not gone the ROLS method, but will be switching to it very soon after witnessing the results here.

Recently I have been on quite a journey into the LED field, and have been loving it. I plan on running exclusive ROLS with LED technology in the coming months, I will post some of my results in this thread as I progress.

Keep up the good organic work here.

-Snafu

 

[Rrog]

Snafu- You will like the ROLS. Find me if you have any questions and I will do my best to help you with this, brother.