+Rep for any Answers! Trichs Question(no pics needed)

I only like about 10% amber. I'm all about getting irie then doing something. The cloudy and clear trichs help me achieve that. Also just FYI. After you flush shut the lights for 2-3 days and you can also feed some very cold water. The plant will go into heavy sugar production, and you will increase potency.

WillieMazeHaze said:

Also just FYI. After you flush shut the lights for 2-3 days and you can also feed some very cold water. The plant will go into heavy sugar production, and you will increase potency.

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How?

Photosynthesis – The process of capturing light energy and converting it to sugar energy, in the presence of chlorophyll using carbon dioxide and water.

Photosynthesis does not occur in darkness, so how will plants; "go into heavy sugar production?"

hey bricktop, long time no see...still giving them hell I see...just to chime in I've left my plants in the dark before not by choice and all that happened in my case was the plants died...I'm no scientist though so

Brick Top said:

How?

Photosynthesis – The process of capturing light energy and converting it to sugar energy, in the presence of chlorophyll using carbon dioxide and water.

Photosynthesis does not occur in darkness, so how will plants; "go into heavy sugar production?"

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Actually there are many articles on this. Some people swear by this while others report no difference but the point of leaving lights off for 48-72 hours before harvest or shortening photoperiod to 8 hours light tells the plant it is dying and squeezes out the last of it's energy into trich production. As any living thing, it's job is to reproduce so if the plant needs to compromise size to crank it's flowers out, then that is what it will do.
Light actually degrades the trichomes so if you have a refractometer you can see for yourself. Test your plant just before lights come on, then test it again just before the lights go off. The brix levels on your plant will be higher at the beginning of the light cycle then at the end. The plant then recovers those brix levels and some during the next dark cycle.
Give it a try, it may or may not work but I have been doing it for years. Not sure if it helps but it's definitely a widely used technique and I can't see it hurting the plant if you have reached maturity

Puff Puff Puff! that is all

Icannabis said:

hey bricktop, long time no see...still giving them hell I see...just to chime in I've left my plants in the dark before not by choice and all that happened in my case was the plants died...I'm no scientist though so

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If your plants dies after 2 days in5)3 dark they were doomed in the first place. I have definitely left plants in the dark for 4 days right before harvest without any negative effects

weedworm said:

I prefer more amber trichs but that's mostly because I usually smoke in the evening and at night and yes its all a preference cloudy= more uplifting energetic Amber= couchlock lol

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^ this is important too, i try to leave a plant a lil longer for that night time smoke, when your gf wont stop chattering, and the dog is running around in circles and your tired but the world says "stay awake!"

i keep the head-high stuff for the mornings/day. yea i smoke all day.


PS: you guys are geeks! sadly, i too am one because i understand the chemical formulas you guys posted. but what the OP was asking was simply when to chop!
PSS: yea i heard to keep llights off for 24-48 hours too, to promote 1 last bit of swelling and drying up and whatever. i dunno, i do 24 hours and it seems fine, who knows?

nick17gar said:

PSS: yea i heard to keep llights off for 24-48 hours too, to promote 1 last bit of swelling and drying up and whatever. i dunno, i do 24 hours and it seems fine, who knows?

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Thats it mate upi never know until you experiment for yourself. Im not trying to go against a respected member of the forum (in bricktop) as i have learnt many many thing from his posts alone, but part of growing is figuring out what works best for you. There is scientific evidence to say that having a blackout period before harvest will increase trich production as there is evidence to say its all balony. As there is evidence to say you should let your plants "ripen" or "partly ripen" or pick em just before they start to ripen"

Just take a look around the net at some pics of buds which were taken at the time of harvest. If yours look anything like it, then harvest! You can be gaurenteed a good smoke and you will learn for your next time.

cheers

Originally Posted by WillieMazeHaze

Also just FYI. After you flush shut the lights for 2-3 days and you can also feed some very cold water. The plant will go into heavy sugar production, and you will increase potency.

Click to expand...

How?

Photosynthesis – The process of capturing light energy and converting it to sugar energy, in the presence of chlorophyll using carbon dioxide and water.

Photosynthesis does not occur in darkness, so how will plants; "go into heavy sugar production?"

Click to expand...

WillieMazeHaze said:

Actually there are many articles on this. Some people swear by this while others report no difference but the point of leaving lights off for 48-72 hours before harvest or shortening photoperiod to 8 hours light tells the plant it is dying and squeezes out the last of it's energy into trich production. As any living thing, it's job is to reproduce so if the plant needs to compromise size to crank it's flowers out, then that is what it will do.
Light actually degrades the trichomes so if you have a refractometer you can see for yourself. Test your plant just before lights come on, then test it again just before the lights go off. The brix levels on your plant will be higher at the beginning of the light cycle then at the end. The plant then recovers those brix levels and some during the next dark cycle.
Give it a try, it may or may not work but I have been doing it for years. Not sure if it helps but it's definitely a widely used technique and I can't see it hurting the plant if you have reached maturity

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I did not question giving plants a 72-hour period of darkness before harvesting them. I only questioned how, "The plant will go into heavy sugar production," considering that; "Photosynthesis – The process of capturing light energy and converting it to sugar energy, in the presence of chlorophyll using carbon dioxide and water" does not occur during darkness, so how is there; "heavy sugar productions" without photosynthesis occurring?

As for the extended period of darkness before harvesting thing, I must have posted the following at least one hundred times on this site by now, so I am fully aware of it, and have been for some years and I do it myself.

"The Stichting Institute of Medical marijuana (SIMM), the first company to sell marijuana through the pharmacies of Holland, has been investigating the medical possibilities of cannabis, together with TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden.

One of their discoveries has been that to keep the ripe plants in the dark before harvesting could increase their potency.SIMM’s growers separated a crop of mature plants, harvested half of them and kept the other half in absolute darkness for 72 hours before cutting and drying. Analysis of the resulting dried buds showed that some varieties had seen an increase of THC of up to 30%, while CBD and CBN remained the same."

My point was that the reason given for increased potency was absurd, that it is impossible for it to occur as stated, that it is yet another example of a piece of factual information being explained by a myth that someone thought up because they do not have the slightest reason why an extended period of darkness can increase potency in some strains.

That is how sites like this end up with so much bad information on them. Someone who doesn't know squat about something makes a guess, an assumption, that is told to or read by someone else who passes it on and it is passed on again and again until eventually it takes on the appearance of fact, when it is not fact.

o0adam0o said:

There is scientific evidence to say that having a blackout period before harvest will increase trich production as there is evidence to say its all balony.

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There is scientific evidence that had proven that some strains will see an increase the level/percentage of THC. But I have never once seen any scientific evidence saying that does not or never does work. I have read claims from growers who were hardly scientific researchers with PhDs and the latest highest tech lab equipment to rely on and who grew in highly controlled extremely well documented conditions while at the same time under the same conditions growing duplicate crops for control groups.

The only so-called evidence that I have only read that says it does not work is from people who said, I did it, it didn't do a thing, it's all bunk, it doesn't work.

Something like that is not a factual refutation of actual scientific research. There is just no way under the sun that anyone can in all honesty equate what they tried in their basement, their closet, their grow tent, their spare room, their storeroom, their attic, their garage, their cabinet or PC case, etc. and then judged with their physical senses to what The Stichting Institute of Medical marijuana and TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden did.

That would be like attempting to equate a home made rubber band powered balsa wood toy airplane with a stealth fighter aircraft.

Some breeder information for certain strains suggests an extended period of darkness prior to harvesting. They don't all say a full 72 hours, but it is evident that they know that the extended period of darkness does improve the quality of the harvest.

But clearly all those who tried it in their basement, their closet, their grow tent, their spare room, their storeroom, their attic, their garage, their cabinet or PC case, etc. and then judged with their physical senses not only know more and are more accurate then The Stichting Institute of Medical marijuana and TNO laboratories and the University of Leiden are but they also know more and are more accurate than the breeders who produce strains they say benefit from an extended period of darkness prior to harvesting.

nick17gar said:

PS: you guys are geeks! sadly, i too am one because i understand the chemical formulas you guys posted. but what the OP was asking was simply when to chop!

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Actually, that is what the information posted was telling him, or more accurately, teaching him.

What could be clearer than the following?


The capitate-stalked glandular trichome changes color as it matures. Newly formed and immature glands are clear, glands reaching optimum THC production are cloudy or milky and amber trichomes have already passed their peak. By looking at the trichomes you can also determine the best time to harvest your plants. When most trichomes have gone cloudy and a few amber ones have appeared, the plant is at its peak.




THC BIOSYNTHESIS




CANNABINOL (CBN)




Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production. CBN is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC.

The rest of the THC biosynthesis information was not in response to the OP but instead a response to someone who inaccurately stated that CBD becomes THC rather than CBGA becomes THCA, CDBA and CBCA and those become THC, CBD and CBC.

But the part about how oxidized, degraded THC then becomes CBN and that occurs when plants are harvested late and amber trichomes are in abundance and how amber trichomes are a visible sign of oxidized, degraded, lost THC was, again, the answer to the OP.

Facts were provided that would allow the person to make an intelligent informed decision as to when they should harvest. The rest, those who said things like, I like this, or, I go for that, etc. were nothing more than beliefs or opinions that are normally formulated from having been ill-informed, but believing the inaccuracy they were taught

Bricktop it's easy to test what you ask you don't need a lab...comparing your lab to nature well is a waste of time...all you have to do is form a control ie. your crop and test it against the variable...send your material to a lab to test THC levels if everyone did this test as I do they could say there pot is the strongest they've ever grow...honestly bricktop I think your the only guy on here who does so well besides me. And I've taken plants out dozens of time but if you leave a plant in the dark long enough it will die like say 2 weeks while I was away...I'm no scientist though

Icannabis said:

Bricktop it's easy to test what you ask you don't need a lab...comparing your lab to nature well is a waste of time...all you have to do is form a control ie. your crop and test it against the variable...send your material to a lab to test THC levels if everyone did this test as I do they could say there pot is the strongest they've ever grow...honestly bricktop I think your the only guy on here who does so well besides me. And I've taken plants out dozens of time but if you leave a plant in the dark long enough it will die like say 2 weeks while I was away...I'm no scientist though

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Of course plants will die in darkness if it lasts long enough. The key is to get maximum THC production while doing away with most or all the daily degrading of THC due to exposure of light for as long as the plants have the reserves to continue normal hours of darkness functions. Once the reserves are gone, he plant is dead. But since you are giving it the chop anyway, there is no loss.

I like to take mine when they are more clear than amber...I dont like lazy stoned...I like silly clean the house stoned.

While darkness may prevent photosynthesis from occurring, the plant is still metabolizing stored sugars and nutrients during this dark period. Thus, an extended period of darkness before harvest should improve both the aroma and taste of your bud as well.

Brick Top said:

Facts were provided that would allow the person to make an intelligent informed decision as to when they should harvest. The rest, those who said things like, I like this, or, I go for that, etc. were nothing more than beliefs or opinions that are normally formulated from having been ill-informed, but believing the inaccuracy they were taught

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aside from the one person you corrected , all the opinions an beliefs are correct without the science behind it.

your facts and my opinions lead to the same answer everybody else posted. (until they got into the darkness crap)

all facts to the side, its more of a preference thing then when exactly the thc is at its highest point.





soil

wyteboi said:

all facts to the side, its more of a preference thing then when exactly the thc is at its highest point.





soil

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It is evident that many gladly throw away THC to get more CBN, even though it's more a combination of CBD and terpenoids that they want, trying to increase the stone. So they do it by, number one: reducing THC levels thus making the pot less potent, and two: by increasing CBN which is only mildly psychoactive and causes sleepiness and confusion. They de-tune and then add confusion.

The question is why is that done when they could pick different strains with the combination of cannabinoids and terpenoids that when harvested at peak levels of THC would give people the stone they want.

I think to many people think that harvesting earlier or later is a way to shape everything other than the most extreme opposite types of strains into being whatever they want it to be.

There is a window of opportunity for when a plant will be at it's peak potency. Harvesting earlier or later means you went without some percentage of potency. The key is to find strains that when harvested at peak potency will give someone what they want.

I do not know how many strains there are, especially when you count the genetically different versions of strains with the same name, but there are thousands of them. Most we never hear anything about.

What we hear about is the latest greatest new release by Dewey, Cheatem & Howe Seeds or about some new kid on the block seed company allegedly having the greatest line ever, and I do mean ever.

People are obsessed with new, the newest, the latest, because if it's the latest, it just has to be the greatest!

People assume older strains are crap compared to the 'flavor of the month' strains, but that's not the case. With all the, at very best, redundant mundane genetics that get cranked out for every one really decent strain, there is a lot that comes out that isn't as good, let alone better, than some older strains.

Many people pick the wrong strains for the wrong reasons and then try to make them into what they want them to be. They try to play cannabis plant alchemist by harvesting at various times.

What these people need are strains that are higher in CBD. CBD, as Sam the Skunkman pointed out, has almost totally been bred out of modern strains. (that is until the fairly recent advent of a small number of high CBD strains by groups like The CBD Crew and Project CBD.

To increase THC percentages the allele responsible for what percentage of CBGA would become CBDA to then become CBD has, almost completely in some cases, been bred out of most modern strains.

That means those who love a heavy stone over a powerful head high should try some of the famous older strains that can still be found. The farther back you go, the less the allele for CBDA/CBD was bred out of them.

I really believe that if more people tried more strains, especially a number of the older ones, they would find something perfect for their taste when harvested at peak levels of potency and they wouldn't have to play the, now exactly when should I harvest so things will be the most like I want them to be game.


To me it only makes sense to grow and smoke something that best fits your likes and or needs when harvested at peak potency levels. So what if it happens to be a strain that your parents smoked? If it's right, then it's right and being newer wouldn't make it any better.

More people need to drop their membership in "The Strain of the Month Club" and branch out, stop assuming anything with a little dust on it's name has to be inferior and try strains you never imagined you would try, and I'll bet you find something you absolutely love.

thats a very educated post there brick! i agree 100%.

i have tried a few hundred species myself and not one of the "newer/better" species has lived up to the name....yet. i got a old no name species that the "top growers" have had for years, all i know is its a indica base with a "skunky" taste and mothers of its been floatin around the area for a decade or two now.
i have literally seen a hundred species grown since then from water guys and dirt guys an not one has come close to the old "skunk". some of it was very good an some was junk , but none had the affect of the old shit. (goin by your knowledge , it proly relates to the CBN / THC relationship.)

i always pick everything at peak (cloudy glands) and your right , if i'm not happy with it then i'll pick it at a different time to try an alter it , but it never works like i want.
So forget tryin to "alter" the pot , just grow a different species till you find the one/s you like.


Hey brick in your opinion (an in "lower education terms" please) what "good" things have the breeders seen over the years that has made them keep breedin until the CBN's are gone.
Basically why is the CBN's almost "bred out" ? (if thats even what you were saying?)




brick thats a very good post , an you can clearly see its your own words / opinions based on knowledge an not just crap that was copied from other "internet growers"




soil