Republicans declare war on students!!!
- Thread starter desert dude
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Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
If you really want to know, a serious football injury in my teens has degenerated in my 40's into crippling arthritis. I can no longer do farm work, or even continue as a PCA, so i took a job in town. I still grow crops, but on a much smaller scale, every couple months in the summer i can supplement my income with a pickup load of tomatoes, watermelons, peppers, herbs and whatnot at the local farmer's market. a couple hundred bucks every few months in the summer may be peanuts to you, but i'm doin what i love. I use cannabis medicinally, so i decided to try my hand growin it for the first time since the 80's. I'm currently raising my first crop of seedlings. I have to grow it indoors, hydroponically, to ensure privacy and security (i dont trust Jerry "moonbeam" Brown any farther than i could throw his washed up hippie ass), and i have no intention of getting rolled up when he changes his mind again, and starts rounding up "cash croppers" for planting 13 seeds instead of 12.
I pay a tax rate all told of about 18% to the federal govt and 12% to the state (dont own property, or a business) and have to scrape by most months on a wage that barely covers my bills. I may be a hillbilly, a plowboy, and a hick, but I am not ignorant enough to trust the words of politicians, when they already dip my pockets more than enough. nearly a third of every dollar disappears into the the fat swollen pockets of washington and sacramento, and my pockets just keep getting thinner. You may think the feds need more money, but i figure they got more than enough of mine. Im not a fool or a hypocrite, so i dont try to pick your pocket either. Thats how country people live their lives, and that's also why we don't trust big city grifters.
I wish you well bro, and i hope someday you wake up and see that helpin the feds rob your neighbors only protects your money for a little while. Eventually they will set their sights on your wallet too.
I pay a tax rate all told of about 18% to the federal govt and 12% to the state (dont own property, or a business) and have to scrape by most months on a wage that barely covers my bills. I may be a hillbilly, a plowboy, and a hick, but I am not ignorant enough to trust the words of politicians, when they already dip my pockets more than enough. nearly a third of every dollar disappears into the the fat swollen pockets of washington and sacramento, and my pockets just keep getting thinner. You may think the feds need more money, but i figure they got more than enough of mine. Im not a fool or a hypocrite, so i dont try to pick your pocket either. Thats how country people live their lives, and that's also why we don't trust big city grifters.
I wish you well bro, and i hope someday you wake up and see that helpin the feds rob your neighbors only protects your money for a little while. Eventually they will set their sights on your wallet too.
Matthew Rapley
Member
but without all the tax dollars the war machine would grind to a halt and without being able to kill foreigners on foreign soil, America would have nothing.
keep paying taxes so the deaths can continue.
keep paying taxes so the deaths can continue.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
we live about the same lifestyle, but i don't have enough land to take my watermelons and 'maters to the farmer's market or else i would.
back when i was working those highfalutin desk gigs for $28k a year, i would pay an effective tax rate of about 22% or so after refund/payment. i think it's pretty absurd that someone making $20 million a year can pay about half of that. i find it even more absurd that corporations that rake in billions pay nothing and often get a refund.
since i don't take any government anything (although i qualify for a lot of things), you can't accuse me of playing one man robin hood when i say i want the guy making $20 million to be taxed AT LEAST the same rate i am. the whole reaganomics supply side trickle down has been proven a failure over 30 years of empirical evidence. it leads to plutocracy type levels of income inequality. while i don't want to see everyone doled out the same exact of money in some kind of communist fashion, the fact is the the type of economic inequality we have right now leads to major economic instability.
we have hundreds of millions americans at the bottom fighting to keep what they have against people like you who have this ridiculous singular focus on spending while ignoring revenue. let's not put an effective tax raise on the bottom 50% and more by cutting essential services that they rely on. let's address the demonstrable route of the problem that is turning us into a plutocracy.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Smart idea:
Give away education loans willy nilly to everyone and their dog so everyone can get an education, because that creates jobs? Oh wait, it doesn't necessarily create jobs, it just creates a huge debt bubble and a lot of students looking for work because the reason jobs are going away really isn't related to education. Barriers to entry, absurdly stupid free trade agreements, inflation, taxes, government incentives to move overseas and the willingness of US banking institutions to loan money to foreign countries with little in the way to enforce repayment.
Perhaps folks who want to create an education bubble are the enemy of the students and also the country as a whole?
Most kids who graduate college wind up living at home, deeply in debt with a job unrelated to their field of study (or no job at all).
Practically speaking, not everyone can be doctors and lawyers or scientists.
Or we can rant on and on about the tax rates of the rich like UB, when the real issue is taxable income, not tax rate. Tax rates hikes will hurt the upper middle class and middle class further and the rich will continue to get richer off rules rigged in their favor, an inflationary monetary system (and their ability to get credit early instead of late any given cycle, or in some cases just get it at all) and, of course, through government contracts (especially those no bid ones, hello margins!).
Give away education loans willy nilly to everyone and their dog so everyone can get an education, because that creates jobs? Oh wait, it doesn't necessarily create jobs, it just creates a huge debt bubble and a lot of students looking for work because the reason jobs are going away really isn't related to education. Barriers to entry, absurdly stupid free trade agreements, inflation, taxes, government incentives to move overseas and the willingness of US banking institutions to loan money to foreign countries with little in the way to enforce repayment.
Perhaps folks who want to create an education bubble are the enemy of the students and also the country as a whole?
Most kids who graduate college wind up living at home, deeply in debt with a job unrelated to their field of study (or no job at all).
Practically speaking, not everyone can be doctors and lawyers or scientists.
Or we can rant on and on about the tax rates of the rich like UB, when the real issue is taxable income, not tax rate. Tax rates hikes will hurt the upper middle class and middle class further and the rich will continue to get richer off rules rigged in their favor, an inflationary monetary system (and their ability to get credit early instead of late any given cycle, or in some cases just get it at all) and, of course, through government contracts (especially those no bid ones, hello margins!).
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
lol, i'd like to see you cite that. keep making stuff up.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I'm not making anything up.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-05-11/strategy/30045627_1_student-loan-debt-job-programs-social-circle
I'm sorry that you form strong opinions on subjects you are not well informed on.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
You could raise the tax rates on everybody, top to bottom, and eliminate all deductions, and the federal govt would still run a deficit. The Pentagon still buys $700 wrenches to turn $30 bolts on $12,000,000 helicopters that can be blown up with a $15 Russian RPG, while the congressmen and senators argue about whether or not to even vote on a budget this year.
My grandpappy always said: If the chickens are loose, you gotta close the gate before you start roundin em up. (translation: catching loose chickens and putting them back into an open pen is retarded)
or if you prefer: "You have to plug the leaks before you can start filling your bucket."
or perhaps: "A dead mule aint never plowed a field"
They all seem apropos.
the government doesn't care about your money, cuz it's YOUR money when they spend it, and it's THEIR money when they want more. The will keep shoveling millions on the fire, until we either stop giving it to them, or take away their shovels. Thye dont live in the same world I live in, and enough is never enough. Calling out Romney for being an out-of-touch moron with more money than sense is admittedly fun as hell, cuz he really is a major tool (!!!car elevator in his malibu house!!! ha ha ha ha!!) but Mitt Romney aint never tried to take my money from me. (he's too busy defending his own giant stacks of cash) if you want a fairer government, more equitable tax rates, and less corruption, then stop shouting about raising taxes on Bill Gates, and start shouting about shutting down the lobbying firms on K street. Thats where the tax rates are formulated, tax loopholes are crafted, and politicians get greased. Exxon, Ford and Dow Chemicals didnt steal your money, Washington stole your money so they could keep theirs. I dont know why you dont get this. No business has ever paid a tax in the history of taxation. Taxes are an expense, like coal, iron, rubber, plastic, wages, lawyers, accountants, advertising, electricity and pensions. Every single cost of every component gets added in piece by piece until the automobile is constructed, then the cost of the car is calculated, profit is added, and you get the price of that shiny new mustang. If the tax rate on any part of the supply and assembly chain is raised, that part, and all parts down the line will invariably reflect this new higher cost of production, until finally you, the purchaser pays the tax (plus a substantial premium of profit on the tax, as every expense is an opportunity for profit). From the first flint spear head to the latest new gadget on your Iphone every penny of tax was paid by the guy who bought the object, none was paid by the producer. Ever. Thats just the way it is. When i sell a sack of green peppers, the person buying them paid for my water, fertilizers seeds electricity, fuel for my truck and a little bit for me. If Jerry Brown drops a $1 "fair share" tax on every bell pepper sold, every one of my bell peppers just went up $1 and change. Either that or i stop sellin peppers, and start growin more strawberries. either way, its the bell pepper eater who gets fucked in the ass by a tax hike on producers corporations and businesses
My grandpappy always said: If the chickens are loose, you gotta close the gate before you start roundin em up. (translation: catching loose chickens and putting them back into an open pen is retarded)
or if you prefer: "You have to plug the leaks before you can start filling your bucket."
or perhaps: "A dead mule aint never plowed a field"
They all seem apropos.
the government doesn't care about your money, cuz it's YOUR money when they spend it, and it's THEIR money when they want more. The will keep shoveling millions on the fire, until we either stop giving it to them, or take away their shovels. Thye dont live in the same world I live in, and enough is never enough. Calling out Romney for being an out-of-touch moron with more money than sense is admittedly fun as hell, cuz he really is a major tool (!!!car elevator in his malibu house!!! ha ha ha ha!!) but Mitt Romney aint never tried to take my money from me. (he's too busy defending his own giant stacks of cash) if you want a fairer government, more equitable tax rates, and less corruption, then stop shouting about raising taxes on Bill Gates, and start shouting about shutting down the lobbying firms on K street. Thats where the tax rates are formulated, tax loopholes are crafted, and politicians get greased. Exxon, Ford and Dow Chemicals didnt steal your money, Washington stole your money so they could keep theirs. I dont know why you dont get this. No business has ever paid a tax in the history of taxation. Taxes are an expense, like coal, iron, rubber, plastic, wages, lawyers, accountants, advertising, electricity and pensions. Every single cost of every component gets added in piece by piece until the automobile is constructed, then the cost of the car is calculated, profit is added, and you get the price of that shiny new mustang. If the tax rate on any part of the supply and assembly chain is raised, that part, and all parts down the line will invariably reflect this new higher cost of production, until finally you, the purchaser pays the tax (plus a substantial premium of profit on the tax, as every expense is an opportunity for profit). From the first flint spear head to the latest new gadget on your Iphone every penny of tax was paid by the guy who bought the object, none was paid by the producer. Ever. Thats just the way it is. When i sell a sack of green peppers, the person buying them paid for my water, fertilizers seeds electricity, fuel for my truck and a little bit for me. If Jerry Brown drops a $1 "fair share" tax on every bell pepper sold, every one of my bell peppers just went up $1 and change. Either that or i stop sellin peppers, and start growin more strawberries. either way, its the bell pepper eater who gets fucked in the ass by a tax hike on producers corporations and businesses
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
lol, an online poll. clicked on several links to see the methodology and came to a dead end. so no methodology available for an unscientific, online web poll. that doesn't even count as citation!
in the extremely short run and during an economic downturn, it will be expected that more NEW grads will move back home, but actual SCIENTIFIC studies of ALL grads will blow your non-scientific, unaccountable, inaccessible, online web poll to smitherines and you know it.
i'm sorry you don't know what science is. college would help with that.
LOL!
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Taxes on businesses are fairer though, because you don't have to buy products from said business necessarily. Although I would argue that any necessity (ie: Food, water & medicine) should not be subject to taxation at all.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
you just made a great argument for the fairness of a progressive tax code is what you did.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
very true and also very true.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
That was the most recent thing I found.
Here's more (older though):
http://youngadults.about.com/od/movinghome/a/Movingemotions.htm
The 85% figure isn't scientific, but it's not worthless either, btw.
Student debt levels are skyrocketing as well.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
the key word there is temporarily, but point granted. more than 50% of students (so most) move back home, albeit temporarily. you omitted the word temporarily in your original claim and have still failed to cite that over half (most) of college graduates get a job in an unrelated field (which that piece of paper probably helped them get) or no job at all (unemployment among college graduates is consistently less than non-college grads, i believe right now it is at about 4-5%).
and with student debt levels skyrocketing, don't you think it would make sense to keep their interest from doubling, just to bring this back to the OP?
edit: just read it again and it's another online poll and i can't find the methodology, just the question asked, the number of respondents, and the answers. it is still an unscientific poll and not worthy of mention. it would be like me claiming that old mcronald has sex with turtles based on the results of my online poll.
The CollegeGrad.com online survey attracted more than 2000 respondents. New grads were asked, "Did you move back home after graduation?" and answered as follows:
- Yes, just for the summer - 11.5%
- Yes, Until I find a job - 68.9%
- No - 19.6%
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
And most can't find decent jobs. And most won't find jobs because they are competing against more experienced people for what few good jobs there are to find. They end up working at McDonald's or some other business where having a college degree is of little to no benefit instead (just to pay the bills because they do have a small mortgage to contend with).
As far as doubling the interest rates on students, this is an arbitrary number and the policy itself seems designed to promote unrest. I'm not sure it's the right direction, but there isn't much question interest rates do have to go up. Trying to ease out of a broken system is a big challenge and will usually get messy.
However, just handing out loans hand over fist isn't the answer either and is the reason they are in that situation in the first place.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
Don't you see, they are taxing you, for earning money, then taxing you (+profit on the tax) for what you buy. Also, while the bread you buy may not be taxed (directly...) the bakery gets taxed, the trucker who delivered the bread gets taxed, the trucking company gets taxed the fuel gets taxed, the farmer gets taxed, the store gets taxed, the miller who turned the wheat into flour gets taxed.... but it all rolls down hill onto you, so a few cents worth of flour and heating fuel gets turned into $4.50 or more for a loaf of bread. It's those snowballing taxes that make even essential products so expensive.
i bake my own bread. a 2lb loaf of bread costs me 1 lb of flour for ~37 cents (retail, i dont grow wheat) 2 eggs 2 cents in chicken feed 1 cup of milk (~$3 a gallon so 19 cents or so) 30 cents in yeast and like 2 cents in gas to cook it. total is about 90 cents. what did you pay for bread last time? bear in mind i pay California (high ass) retail prices for everything but the eggs.
this infernal algebra is at work on everything you buy.
i bake my own bread. a 2lb loaf of bread costs me 1 lb of flour for ~37 cents (retail, i dont grow wheat) 2 eggs 2 cents in chicken feed 1 cup of milk (~$3 a gallon so 19 cents or so) 30 cents in yeast and like 2 cents in gas to cook it. total is about 90 cents. what did you pay for bread last time? bear in mind i pay California (high ass) retail prices for everything but the eggs.
this infernal algebra is at work on everything you buy.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i could go snag some of my chicken's eggs and do the same, but i just buy the shit bread for $0.99 a loaf at the store. sometimes the wife will bake a loaf if she feels like it, but i usually prefer the shit bread.
you're not telling me anything i don't already know about the costs of business, including taxes, being passed on. it's pretty
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I know this. Income taxes are just government extortion.
But that doesn't mean all taxes are inherently wrong or bad. Especially when the role of the government is very limited in the first place (thereby reducing the incentive to seek further revenue to support questionable projects given to friends, or family or whatever).
But that doesn't mean all taxes are inherently wrong or bad. Especially when the role of the government is very limited in the first place (thereby reducing the incentive to seek further revenue to support questionable projects given to friends, or family or whatever).
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
needs citation again (something scientific, no online polls). well over 90% of college grads are employed, so i doubt you can find that citation.
wait, let me get this straight. students are hurting under a pile of debt from student loans, and your solution is to make it tougher for them to pay off the debt?
i always shoot myself in the foot with a gun if my foot cramps.
well, that's another thread then.