returning to dwc - a novel in progress

so i tried coco...

long story short - i don't like how it limits my options for nutrients and i don't like hand watering.

the $ wasn't all wasted - i learned tons of info i wouldn't have otherwise had reason to and my girls in coco will provide clones for a while.

thing is, i recently learned i can buy advanced nutrients products at discount rates through my dispensary ($11/L or $38/4L for sensi a+b grow/bloom and many others). an nutes don't work well with coco though so i was paying way more between buying canna coco a+b and the coco itself.

all this means screw coco...for now. i'll try coco again when i have the money and expertise to spare but i'm returning to dwc for now.

so here's my grow:

i've got my clones under 24hr t12's in a cut tray for now. to remain prop 215 compliant my limit is 24 plants without any specification of what stage they are in.

i'll be growing odyssey, blue dream, og kush, hindu skunk and gdp. i hope to find some more purple urkle and bubblegum too, but these are what i have now.

lighting will be provided by 6400k t5's for veg and an aircooled 1000w hps for flowering.

i'll be vegging in my closet until i can buy a tent then the junk goes back into the closet. everything will be in a bedroom of my home with a dedicated 240V for the hps and a dedicated 30amp 120V for everything else. a second 120V is in the works.

i considered rdwc, but i want a perpetual op with mulitple sets going through flowering offset by 2-3 weeks which means each set will need it's own nute mix. i'm still working out what to use for my setup so details will come later. basically, i want to start eating my weed cuz my lungs haven't been happy lately so i would like to harvest 1 pound every 3 weeks between 6 plants each harvest. also, for financial reasons, i'm limiting each set of 6 plants to 15-20 gallons of solution...looks like i'll be eating that post about never going back to tubs...

this grow will be done with almost all advanced nutrients products, the only exceptions being the gh crap i have left. since i can get an stuff so cheap it'd be stupid not to use the only nutrients in the world scientifically designed for cannabis.

i'll be feeding with sensi a+b grow supplemented with voodoo, piranha, tarantula, b-52, sensi cal/mg and nirvana for veg then sensi a+b bloom supplemented with bud blood, big bud, overdrive and nirvana for flowering. i know i'll end up experimenting with a lot of their other products eventually but i want to find a good regular recipie that works for me.

this thread is intended to allow me to think in a more linear and productive way and to reference my earlier thoughts. comments, advice, questions, etc. are welcome and appreciated. kick back with a doob if you're the reading type, hang back till the pics start flowing, or pass altogether but i'm no expert so don't pollute this thread with criticism or irrelevant "suggestions."

Sounds good, I'll be watching. Seems like a lot of growers "return" to DWC.

Illegal Smile said:

Sounds good, I'll be watching. Seems like a lot of growers "return" to DWC.

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thanks for the comment. i haven't been growing very long at all but i've tried soil, dwc, coco and i occasionally lend a hand to my buddy's aero grows. eventually i'd like to try every method i can to see what really works best for me because real world experience is really the only way to tell.

hotboxhatchback said:

thanks for the comment. i haven't been growing very long at all but i've tried soil, dwc, coco and i occasionally lend a hand to my buddy's aero grows. eventually i'd like to try every method i can to see what really works best for me because real world experience is really the only way to tell.

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Good approach. Too many read some threads and decide this or that must be the way to go. They all have their adherents and sometimes it gets like, "tastes great vs less filling"

when i started my first grow in rubbermaid tubs i had lots of issues so i made a list of requirements for my next dwc setup.

i want:

at least 2gal solution per plant, ideally 3-4gallons and at least 15gal per res.

easy res changes with a pump to do the work for me

easy removal of upper section (lid/pots/plants) for thorough cleaning of entire system

redundant air pumps

a bubble supply directly below each root mass without using bubble wands - they get too filthy too fast for me

easy access to drop in and pull out 2L bottles of frozen water...no res chiller yet...

the ability to modify the setup down the road to be recirculating

sturdy, quality res and parts - rubbermaid tubs and even those used in sh bubbleponics systems are far below the standard i want here. i found 27gallon/400lb load capacity ToughBox brand tubs at Home Depot for $15ea and some heavy duty plastic livestock watering troughs at a local feed store. the troughs are 45gal $50ea and i'd have to make my own lids so i'll probably go with the ToughBoxes.

i'll add to that list as things come to mind. any suggestions out there for features or capabilities to incorporate into the setup?

keep in mind i can't buy horticultural grade H2O2 in my area because of bullshit regulations. that means i'll be using microbes and enzymes and i'll need to clean things really well every week.

a tip i picked up for using microbes in dwc:

since there's not much substrate in the system besides the roots that the microbes can colonize a large portion of microbe products can go to waste. to lower initial application rates, "brew" your solution ahead of res changes.

i mix my nutes, add microbes, add a clean natural spong to give them a reproductive substrate, add carbo load to feed them and let it aerate for a day before my res change. also, gently sqeeze out the sponge and remix before adding to res.

for powdered microbe products that jack up your tds, you can put the powder in a nylon stocking, tie it in a knot and lay the stocking over the side of your res so that the powder is hanging in your solution. the nylon will let microbes out but hold most of the powdered substrate in.

i've been fighting fungus gnats. i think one rode in with the clones i just got but i had some in my room already.

i got some Go Gnats (http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=6877) and have been adding it to their water for a couple days. the shit works. i really only ever saw the one gnat bothering my clones and i found it dead in the tray 10 mins after the first application. i haven't seen another since.

i put the clones in hydroton and net pots to make handling them easier for me and less stressful for them. i plan on another week of handwatering while my first crop finishes then they'll be dropped into the water.

since its poison free and relatively safe i'll continue using Go Gnats as a preventative. Go Gnats is basically just 1/3 cedar oil and 2/3 water with lecithin as an emulsifier and has 1% sodium lauryl sulfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_lauryl_sulfate) listed as the active ingredient.

i spent a few minutes cooking up a rough sketch in ms paint.

the idea is to have 3 individual RDWC setups, each fully contained so that they can have different nute solutions and that will allow me to start each set of plants flowering at 2-3 weeks offset and harvest every 2-3 weeks once its up and running.

i'm building one setup right now and i'll add the other two down the road if this plan works out.

the tub will be on bricks and have a 1/2 hose draining into a 5g bucket set on the floor beside the bricks and tub. in the bucket, a small pump will push water up into the manifold which will be zip-tied to the top side of the tub's lid.

the manifold will be made of 1" pvc pipe with a top hat grommet and 1/4" feeder tube for each net pot. the inlet of the manifold will have a tee and ball valves so that i can use it to drain the system simply by closing the valve to the manifold and opening to one to the upper hose adapter.

when the feeder tubes are no longer needed, they can be redirected to drain out the sides of the pots instead of keeping the plant's stems saturated and this will keep the solution moving and mixing 24/7.

also, i can fit about 17gallons in my tub under my net pots - 2.8g/plant. adding the 5g bucket (which would likely have 3g at any given time) brings this up to 3.3g/plant. an additional 1/2 gallon of solution per plant will keep pH and ppm's slightly more stable, too.

i never left DWC

is food grade h202 out of the question?

purpdaddy said:

i never left DWC

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i never left growing but i try different things all the time and i'll try more grow styles in the future.

hotboxhatchback said:

i never left growing but i try different things all the time and i'll try more grow styles in the future.

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Nothing wrong with that,but im stuck on this hydro DWC game..BP or aero setup grows the fastest.YOu want big fat buds fast right?These are the way to go.But expereminting is good too if you have the time,,,but i let the scientist do that for me.

wiseguy316 said:

is food grade h202 out of the question?

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what is food grade vs. horticultural grade and where would i look for it?

i've asked around hydro shops and heard that cali has some bs hazmat law that prevents the retail sale of H2O2 in concentrations above 7%.

i've found from 3% to 5.5% in drug stores but the problem with those products is the chemical stabilizers used to prevent the small amount of H2O2 in there from breaking down over the months or years that shit sits on the shelf. my buddy that grows aero uses 3% and dumps it straight on his roots for minor problems but it stresses the shit outta the plants. his 5' tall outdoor aero trees can handle it but young plants like mine can't.

i have a friend that works at nasco and she said not to bother holding out hope of buying it locally. she said if i want 30-50% H2O2 i'd have to smuggle it in myself.

purpdaddy said:

Nothing wrong with that,but im stuck on this hydro DWC game..BP or aero setup grows the fastest.YOu want big fat buds fast right?These are the way to go.But expereminting is good too if you have the time,,,but i let the scientist do that for me.

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any setup will ony perform as well as the grower is willing and able to utilize that setup.

that said, some growers just don't like doing some things or dealing with some of the details of a particular setup/grow style.

i like how plants grow in dwc but i don't like maintaining a res. just like i enjoy not having to maintain a res with coco but hand watering 12 pots multiple times a day is getting ridiculous. my aero buddy is constantly twisting my arm to go aero but those setups cost way more to build and if i had that money i'd just automate my coco.

there's pros and cons for every style of growing and really i think success is figuring out what works best for you and what lets you enjoy growing. it took me weeks before i got any joy out of this and now my decisions as a grower a based on 2 things:

can i afford it?

is it something i'll enjoy doing every day and not come to hate in a month?

bottom line is i grow for my wife and i so we won't have to buy. i use cannabis to treat manic-depression, insomnia and auto accident related injuries. i'm not as concerned about growing characteristics as i am quality - both the quality of my smoke and more importantly the quality of our lives along the way. discerning readers will understand i don't choose the best setup from the plants' perspective but from mine alone.

i read a thread where a guy compared strains to problems saying he can only take on a few at a time despite wanting to take them all on at once. that's how i am with growing styles. i want a warehouse with a dwc garden in one corner, a coco garden in another, areo over there, organic soil beds out back, some hanging topsy-turvy things, etc. etc. all done to the best of my ability.

food grade is 35% and found in health food stores or internet orders. mine is made by Eagle Enterprise Whitney tx 800-833-3256. Called oxy-tech...was 18 bucks a quart

You can get ph down cheaper than me and I can get H2O2. I see a deal in the makings..lol
-THIS PRODUCT, {HYDROGEN PEROXIDE}, IS HAZARDOUS AND IS PACKAGED AND MAILED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE PUBLICATION, {USPS 52 GUIDE LINES} FOR OXIDIZERS.

wiseguy316 said:

food grade is 35% and found in health food stores or internet orders. mine is made by Eagle Enterprise Whitney tx 800-833-3256. Called oxy-tech...was 18 bucks a quart

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i just called a couple local health food stores and they both carry 35% food grade H2O2 for a reasonable price.

made it seem like the hydro shops are ripping people off by needlessly recommending more expensive products that aren't even comparable so i called my regular shop.

i had a short conversation with an employee i regularly interact with who's obviously an experienced grower and she explained to me that they used to sell a brand of H2O2 that's no longer legal for sale in CA due entirely to labeling issues. CA won't let the manufacturer sell the stuff without revising the label and the manufacturer said no, probably for cost reasons, and just quit selling to CA. perfect example of over regulation fucking things up again...

i asked her if they were aware of the 35% food grade H2O2 available 5 blocks down the road at the health food store and she said no. she asked me what brand it was and i told her i'd look into it and get back to her.

she said the store owner would be interested in stocking the product again if the brand available is compatible with hydroponic use so once i get done doing their homework we'll see how far that goes.

either way now i know i can get it locally for a decent price. i'm glad this point came up, thanks wiseguy316. is that naval jelly not working out?

naval jelly is working so far, my only concern is some of the other stuff in there reacting with the nute solution. I've got nice buds right now. Food grade H2o2 is generally kept refrigerated, keep an eye out for that when you purchase it. The stuff works great.

I found a place to order ph down in cali, as long as you order enough things to make it worth while the shipping isn't an issue. I had it out with my local hydro shop the other day. They are open screwy hours, and not open when they are suppose to be open. Most of the time everything I need they have to order it. Well, I can do that. I told them it's hard to support your local hydro shop when they are never open. Right now they open tues- sat from 10 til 2 by apptn only I called tues and still havent heard from them. I was researching online about the H2o2 and 7 % deal couldn't find anything. I think they are full of it. Good deal.

wiseguy316 said:

my only concern is some of the other stuff in there reacting with the nute solution

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i'd be just as concerned about the other stuff in there reacting badly with my body.
have you looked up the other ingredients to see if you really want to consume them?

as for the hydro store, i think they're all a bit eccentric but that's ridiculous. i get myself in trouble being so boldy outspoken in person and i've gotten into it with a couple hydro shop employees over various topics but if any of these stores operated like that they wouldn't see a $ of my money......only open by appt.....fuck that.

so one of the odysseys has shown itself to be gifted beyond the crowd. it already has new leaf sets on every shoot and roots popping out the net pot. the other odyssey is not far behind.

the og kush seems to be having a hard time. i always get crappy clones because i have to drive 2hrs for them and my body won't let me go so early lately...slim pickins by the time i show up. anyhow, this og kush (and the odysseys) are from oaksterdam and i've had good luck with their cuttings pulling through. it has roots popping but the top looks rough. it was the only one they had and i really wanted to grow some og kush...we'll see.

the blue dream clones came from a different dispensary and are in oasis cubes instead of rockwool. i don't like oasis cubes any more than rockwool but whatever. the little one is more perky but they are both doing well, still waiting to see roots popping out. the guy at the dispensary told me to come back next month for some black cherry cuttings. anyone ever heard of black cherry?

also, after looking at the pics i think i need to feed the blue dreams a bit more, they are older clones and are beginning to yellow especially on the oldest leaves. any opinions?