farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
I hear ya,, I didnt name them because I dont want this thread to turn into a drama fest,,,lol,,like some other threads,,
Riddle me this!
- Thread starter farmerfischer
- Start date
The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
Just kidding, I didn't report you, but now I am.I hear ya,, I didnt name them because I dont want this thread to turn into a drama fest,,,lol,,like some other threads,,
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
Sweet,, lol,,
pound it,,lol
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Light leaks and odd schedules can stress a plant, disturb the hormone balance and indirectly cause it to hermie. It is probably often not the reason but it can be, and it can contribute.
The expression of genetics is a result of genetics + environment (= phenotype). They are not mutual exclusive but go hand in hand.
As pointed out by someone it can inhibit flowering. The reason the moon doesn't do that is:
"As little as 0.03 footcandles (FC) of red light interrupting the dark period will inhibit the anthesis [the onset of flowering] of hemp." ( http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH48 )
Which is not coincidentally the max light a full moon gives... Evolution...
The expression of genetics is a result of genetics + environment (= phenotype). They are not mutual exclusive but go hand in hand.
As pointed out by someone it can inhibit flowering. The reason the moon doesn't do that is:
"As little as 0.03 footcandles (FC) of red light interrupting the dark period will inhibit the anthesis [the onset of flowering] of hemp." ( http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH48 )
Which is not coincidentally the max light a full moon gives... Evolution...
vostok
Well-Known Member
locking ur babe up in a dark closet each night trains ur plant(auxins) to be very light sensitive
in most cases it ain't the excess light thats the issue but an excess of (N)
that can only guarantee a herming plant will gush forth
still nobodies sued their bottled nute supplier yet..?
TheFuture
Well-Known Member
The fact we are shutting the plants up completely dark makes them hyper sensitive to night time light intrusions. However, we arent talking about pinhole leaks unless they are incredibly intense. On our greenhouses for light deprivation we pulled tarps over them. Eventually, the tarps had all kinds of holes in them and we did not experience the same amount of seed weight that was present in the fields, exposed to complete mother nature. The field was not dark by any scope when compared to the darkness in a light deprived greenhouse.
When you open that door at 3am for some stupid reason, and the laundry room light blares in, thats going to cause an issue. If you got up at 3am to open the fridge to get some drink and the fridge light shone under the door crack... the plants are not going to care about that. Think: car headlights temporarily illuminating plants as they pass by in the night. Or teenagers canoodling for a few hours. Maybe those plants get stressed over that. Probably not.
I've worked in the dispensary as a grower and our rooms had a little light coming in from the drop ceiling panels which never fit completely right. It just seemed there was always some kind of little light leak that has found its way in so I would not be that concerned about making a light/air-tight chamber.
What WAS detrimental however, was anytime there was a RED LIGHT present that caused hermaphrodites in the immediate vicinity every time. Example: we would replace a broken fan with a new one and not cover the red light in tape. This 24/h a day beaming red LED light definitely caused seeds.
When you open that door at 3am for some stupid reason, and the laundry room light blares in, thats going to cause an issue. If you got up at 3am to open the fridge to get some drink and the fridge light shone under the door crack... the plants are not going to care about that. Think: car headlights temporarily illuminating plants as they pass by in the night. Or teenagers canoodling for a few hours. Maybe those plants get stressed over that. Probably not.
I've worked in the dispensary as a grower and our rooms had a little light coming in from the drop ceiling panels which never fit completely right. It just seemed there was always some kind of little light leak that has found its way in so I would not be that concerned about making a light/air-tight chamber.
What WAS detrimental however, was anytime there was a RED LIGHT present that caused hermaphrodites in the immediate vicinity every time. Example: we would replace a broken fan with a new one and not cover the red light in tape. This 24/h a day beaming red LED light definitely caused seeds.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I took a fairly drastic step when I started my research project. I refused to grow ANYTHING from seed. Instead, I only accept clones of plants that had already been grown out and therefore have known characteristics.
No males, no herms, no weird structure that interferes with its ability to grow tall and be easily trained onto a trellis.
I clone everything endlessly and contrary to something that's been asserted above, I do NOT believe the clones adapt themselves to my grow over the generations; I'm quite sure the process is the opposite; WE adapt OUR growing style to the clone over the generations.
Cloning is thus a huge advantage; it allows me to eliminate strain influences when comparing results over time.
No males, no herms, no weird structure that interferes with its ability to grow tall and be easily trained onto a trellis.
I clone everything endlessly and contrary to something that's been asserted above, I do NOT believe the clones adapt themselves to my grow over the generations; I'm quite sure the process is the opposite; WE adapt OUR growing style to the clone over the generations.
Cloning is thus a huge advantage; it allows me to eliminate strain influences when comparing results over time.
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
@vostok,,,,,,I dont 100% agree with that,, I'm a ferm believer that its all genetics,,, the hermi trait is recessive in most cases and can never be bread back out,, and can be triggered by just about anything,, I made this post to see how many educated answers I would get,, most of them are spot on, and I appreciate the responses,, i can pretty much tell what were learned anwsers and what was just read and repeated...lol..the hermis ive had in the past were most of the time from bag seed and I had no clue of the strain other then what joe shmoe said it was,,lol, I now have had stable genetics for years and good people to trade with and herm's are not an issue,,
I was testing the water so to speak with this question,, like I said much appreciation guys I know now there are some legitimate people on here
I was testing the water so to speak with this question,, like I said much appreciation guys I know now there are some legitimate people on here
THE KONASSURE
Well-Known Member
one thing I do know
If you gas light them to veg so 12 on 5off 1on 5off you only need around 30mins in the middle of night to keep them in veg
Anyway when I veg using that method I noticed when in flower its a lot easier to hermie them via light stress at night
but other than that that method can work really well to stop them flowering, you use less water and less light during veg, but they do grow a bit slower
If you gas light them to veg so 12 on 5off 1on 5off you only need around 30mins in the middle of night to keep them in veg
Anyway when I veg using that method I noticed when in flower its a lot easier to hermie them via light stress at night
but other than that that method can work really well to stop them flowering, you use less water and less light during veg, but they do grow a bit slower
Because far red wave lengths from sunset put your plants to sleep. Moon light is nothing more than reflective light the light source is the sun which reflection doesnt have enough value or par to effect light sensitivity when plants are sleeping. Same goes for sunset waking your plants up. This is why led's with full spectrum control are getting great results. Ive been running the kind 5 xl1000 fckin awesome. Programeable red wave lengths to put em to sleep and wake em up.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
where did you come up with the original assumption that light leaks cause hermies?
i'd like to see some lux meter readings next to an outdoors plant during a full moon vs. a light leak in a 4x4 tent.
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
Its not my assumption,, read the whole thread,, this assumption as you put I had read in old posts way back in the archives,, lol' I dont believe light leaks cause hermies alone,, its all about genetics,, ligit genetics won't hermi,, read the whole thread please''
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i skim, not read.
how would you prove that genetics is the cause of hermies? anecdotal evidence from growers isn't enough for solid proof.
are you saying that you can give grower A a plant you deem to have solid genetics and nothing grower A could do would hermi it?
not really arguing but that doesn't sound reasonable to me.
how would you prove that genetics is the cause of hermies? anecdotal evidence from growers isn't enough for solid proof.
are you saying that you can give grower A a plant you deem to have solid genetics and nothing grower A could do would hermi it?
not really arguing but that doesn't sound reasonable to me.
You can have light leaks in your grow room without any issues (its the amount/duration/strength of the leak that can cause problems). It just depends on the amount of light and whether it's directly hitting/reaching the plants. A light leak from a crack of the doorway from a lamp or hallway light isn't gonna do anything that isn't strong enough to penetrate all way to your plants and cause that type of issue.
One of my rooms isn't completely sealed off and light comes in through my window AC unit through the vent without any issues at all (primarily summer only) as the sun sets earlier and isn't as strong in the winter, I haven't noticed the leak hardly at all since October came around. The door jam also isnt sealed off and small light creeps through anytime lights in other rooms are on which has never cause any problems either.
Hermies are usually environmental and stress related including strains that are susceptible to this genetic predisposition. Good strong genetics won't be as susceptible to herms. So having a minor light leak or going into your room/opening door and some light coming in from time to time will not do anything to your plants unless you are coupling it with other issues/stressors.
As I said my door and window unit both leak small light from outside of the room from regular bulb lighting (this isnt strong enough to cause plants to hermie). It needs to be a light leaks from a veg room grow or adjacent bloom lights coming into the room that will effect flowering plants during the dark periods. I go into my rooms all time to check on shit or grab something I left in one room to bring in another.
I forget the amount of light it takes but I think its something like over 100-200 watts for over 3 min per dark period to even effect anything. Turning on your phone light and walking around your room and things like that won't do anything. I don't recommend doing it on a daily or on a continuous basis but that shouldn't ever cause a room of plants to all hermie. That is something else causing those issues that you'll need to look into. Keep em green fellas!!
One of my rooms isn't completely sealed off and light comes in through my window AC unit through the vent without any issues at all (primarily summer only) as the sun sets earlier and isn't as strong in the winter, I haven't noticed the leak hardly at all since October came around. The door jam also isnt sealed off and small light creeps through anytime lights in other rooms are on which has never cause any problems either.
Hermies are usually environmental and stress related including strains that are susceptible to this genetic predisposition. Good strong genetics won't be as susceptible to herms. So having a minor light leak or going into your room/opening door and some light coming in from time to time will not do anything to your plants unless you are coupling it with other issues/stressors.
As I said my door and window unit both leak small light from outside of the room from regular bulb lighting (this isnt strong enough to cause plants to hermie). It needs to be a light leaks from a veg room grow or adjacent bloom lights coming into the room that will effect flowering plants during the dark periods. I go into my rooms all time to check on shit or grab something I left in one room to bring in another.
I forget the amount of light it takes but I think its something like over 100-200 watts for over 3 min per dark period to even effect anything. Turning on your phone light and walking around your room and things like that won't do anything. I don't recommend doing it on a daily or on a continuous basis but that shouldn't ever cause a room of plants to all hermie. That is something else causing those issues that you'll need to look into. Keep em green fellas!!
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
yes I can,, a true female, xx female will not hermi no matter what stress is put on her,, transplant shock, ph issues,nutrients, light stress will not cause a true female to herm,, to find out if its solid genetics a simple test can be done,, through light stressing, really give it fuckt up schedules,,, this can be done to find a true female out of a batch of seeds,, many ligit breeders do this to insure their selfed females seeds S1's won't hermi.. So yes, I can give grower A a plant and be 100% confident it won't hermi
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
The hermi trait is recessive, you can have a strain with pretty good genetics and a lot of the time that female will not hermi, but the trait is still there,, so you can grow this strain for years without any hermi's popping up, which leads people to think it was caused by enviroment alone, like light stress of other things but the fact the trait was in the plant the whole time
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i disagree. a true xx female can and will turn hermie given proper stress conditions. it's in their genetic makeup from eons ago. it's a survival mechanism.
hermaphroditism is completely natural in 100% of all flowering plants.
i'll have to dig thru some shit to find my source
hermaphroditism is completely natural in 100% of all flowering plants.
i'll have to dig thru some shit to find my source
farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
It's cool man,, this has been debated for years and Im not interested in a debate rite now,, I have source's too. I'll just leave this alone,, I'm not say'n your wrong, or right, we've all learned from many source's and many are still being debated .. If your interested try to see if you can find Mr. Xx on google not sure if he's there but take alook,, I have a great artical he wrote
meristem
Well-Known Member
Not sure about "100%" but you're right about it being a natural response to stress.
I don't think I've encountered 100% in much of anything related to biology other than maybe the probability of death as an eventual outcome [plants don't pay taxes - yet]
redeyedfrog
Well-Known Member
It's all urban myth crap, somebody said it, someone repeats it and the whole misconception becomes gospel. I believe it's purely genetic or self replication and I've never once had a herm indoor or outdoor.
It's like people saying put your plants in total darkness for 2 days before you harvest, I call bs on that too, or put your seedlings in 24 hour light until flower or you need a special flush solution before harvest all of the above a crap.
Plants hermies because it's a survival tactic or a mutation it's as simple as that.
A small amount of light won't hurt your plant or make it do a Bruce Jenner. Large variations in light cycle can however influence sex.
http://www.herb.com/genetics.html
It's like people saying put your plants in total darkness for 2 days before you harvest, I call bs on that too, or put your seedlings in 24 hour light until flower or you need a special flush solution before harvest all of the above a crap.
Plants hermies because it's a survival tactic or a mutation it's as simple as that.
A small amount of light won't hurt your plant or make it do a Bruce Jenner. Large variations in light cycle can however influence sex.
http://www.herb.com/genetics.html
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