Root Development vs Plant Growth

newbutpersistent

Well-Known Member
yeah, I've noticed that since the big roots reached the bottom of the pot about 3 weeks ago, there hasn't really been any new big roots growing down there. Not sure if you've noticed this or not (may be hard to notice with your medium) but my soil was fairly loose and granular, easy to take a bit of it. In the last week or so, I've noticed that there are really small roots pocking up through the surface every now and then. Also, the soil itself is acting differently, it stays together like its one piece, almost like coco coir or rockwool (at least what I assume their texture is from the various pictures), I can only assume this is from an extensive system of vary small roots that act to hold the soil together in one clump. I assume this is a good thing, it means that even after the roots reached their maximum space to expand, they've continued to thrive.
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
ok gents i have been struggling with this issue, i fiannly bit the bul]let and put my super hot babes under 20/4 light instead of 24/0

this is mainy cuz i dug up this thread from the beginning times of riu posted by Mr rollitup himself. would like your opinions on it if possible:

The magic chemistry of plant growth starts at the roots. Roots send nutrients (in exchange for sugar) up through leaf stems to the leaves for final processing. They are also large storage sites for excess energy from the leaves, which is stored as starch. The roots and their capacity to store starch will decide how well a plant will grow and how much the plant will yield.

Root size :
A research Rye plant in a 12-inch pot had 14 billion root hairs that, if placed end to end, would have stretched 6,200 miles (almost 10,000 kilometres). The root hairs alone would have covered a square area of 180 ft by 180 ft (about 55 m by 55 m) ! The more extensive the root system, the better the plant will grow. This is because roots storing much energy are able to exchange lots of nutrients up to the leaves, and so the leaves can send down more sugar, etc. Thus, root growth is directly affected by moisture, oxygen, temperature, and sugars sent down from the leaves.

Root medium is important for plant growth. The less energy the roots use to absorb water and nutrients from their surrounding medium, the more they can use that energy to grow and to help send nutrients up to the plant. Most of a plant's water is taken in by the root hairs. 99% of the water taken in by a plant is transpired out through the leaves. A plant will fall over and wilt as a result of its roots not being able to extract any more water from the surroundings.

Air roots : in a plant's natural life in the earth, its roots get moisture
from rainfall. After rain, the soil water soon sinks down and the topsoil dries quickly. For this reason, the top 1/3 of plant roots are air specialized and the bottom 1/3 are water roots. One must be careful not to keep the air specialized roots constantly wet or the plant will drown. The bottom section of roots can be constantly wet provided that the water has oxygen in it. Stagnant water will soon kill the plant. The roots should always look crisp and white. If the roots develop brown tips or general browning, the problem is usually lack of oxygen, and infection will soon follow.
A plant can function quite well with its roots exposed to light as long as they do not dry out. However, the light encourages alga growth, which causes odours, and the alga competes with the plant for nutrients in the light period and oxygen in the dark period.

Oxygen is the most important root requirement because the roots need oxygen to convert sugar to energy. The more oxygen available to the roots, the more energy they can transfer to the plant.
Temperature also affects root growth and function. The roots do a
great deal of their storage developing at night when the green sections of the plant are not being pressured by the light to produce and distribute the day's excess sugar to the roots. Roots function more efficiently when they are warm, so roots in warm dark period develop better structures than those grown in cool dark period. As an illustration, a cycle of warm dark 77°F (25°C) and day 59°F (15°C) would develop better roots than a cycle of cool dark 59°F (15°C) and day 77°F (25°C). In essence, plants will grow better with a high average 24-hour root temperature that is constant rather than fluctuating.

Supercharged roots : the root hair zone is relatively small and starts just behind the growing root cap. This zone advances with the growing roots and as the new hairs near the tip emerge, the older hairs die off. Here is where most water and nutrients are absorbed. So for supercharged growth, plant roots must not be allowed to become rootbound but be kept healthy and advancing at maximum throughout the entire life of the plant. When growing in pots that are too small, it is better to have the roots trim themselves by coating the inside of pots with a special copper paint rather than letting the roots circle and girdle themselves. In general, pots are not oxygen efficient for super plant growth. Remember that plant yield is proportional to root size


this was originally posted by Mr ROLLITUP
 

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting post....and in particular....

"a cycle of warm dark 77°F (25°C) and (Ed. cool?) day 59°F (15°C) would develop better roots than a cycle of cool dark 59°F (15°C) and (Ed. warm?)day 77°F (25°C). In essence, plants will grow better with a high average 24-hour root temperature that is constant rather than fluctuating."

This would suggest that soil (allowing for a more moderated temp regime) would potetnially provide better growth results than hydro....unless it was possible to vary the air/water temp differentially in the hydro setup....as I am totally unfamiliar with hydro setups....I may be only showing my total ignorance here?:mrgreen::mrgreen::blsmoke::blsmoke:
 

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
make a freakin' horror movie outta that! that would be funny...especially if you could do it in the old like thirty's style flickering and B/W...that'd be a hoot! :mrgreen:
i was sleeping next to that all summer. lucky it didn't eat me. :-|
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
Remember that plant yield is proportional to root size


this was originally posted by Mr ROLLITUP


And what are these proportions? What does this mean? That you can stick one in a 3 gallon container, one in a 5 gallon container, veg' them for the same time and achieve bigger yields from the 5gallon?

It doesn't really matter who it was posted by as science has not gone far enough to determin what these ratios are. If you put a plant in a 5 gallon container, and one in a 3 gallon, veg for the same amount of time who's to say where the most extensive root system is? Who's to say that the root systems are not just as extensive, merely one confined to a tighter space?
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
Sensi Bloom A, 24ml (2.66ml pl)
Sensi Bloom B, 24ml (2.66ml pl)
MET Bloom, 14.5ml (1.61ml pl)
Fulvic Acid, 14.5ml (1.61ml pl)
Barricade, 1.5ml (0.16ml pl)
Carboload, 6ml (0.66ml pl)
Cannazym, 15ml (1.66ml pl)
Overdrive, 29ml (3.22ml pl)
B52, 15ml (1.66ml pl)

EC 1.4-1.6

Aside from the thrips everything is going well. I'll post pic's tomorrow. Also root pic's of a 7 week flowerer.
 

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
thanks man...look forward to the pics - FYI - I'll be posting my pics later this afternoon as well.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Nice thread skunky...
I have grown plants to harvest in tiny 16 ounce containers many times, they produce fine buds. I think that all things being equal that a plant will produce a larger yield in a larger container (generally)

Here are some pics of clones that were cut from the same mother and rooted and vegged and flowered at the same time. Same nutes---the smaller containers need to be watered much more frequently.

The little containers are apx 22 ounces the large one is .71 gallon.
 

Attachments

Wavels

Well-Known Member
They were grown is soil, (cloned indoors under floro tubes), put outdoors for about a week or so after showing roots and transplanting to these containers. I induced flowering by moving indoors for twelve hrs darkness. They vegged for a week to ten days only because I did not want to get them too large.
I have grown five foot plants outdoors using same .71 gallon containers
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
They were grown is soil, (cloned indoors under floro tubes), put outdoors for about a week or so after showing roots and transplanting to these containers. I induced flowering by moving indoors for twelve hrs darkness. They vegged for a week to ten days only because I did not want to get them too large.
I have grown five foot plants outdoors using same .71 gallon containers


Wow, wavels... you hang out in the politics section too much. lol. Excellent. Would you say there is a minimum root space allowance to achieve a minimum sized plant? As an indoor grower, I'm trying to achieve the right balance.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
LOL....thanks skunky!!!
I very seldom use anything larger than .71 gal container for indoor growing nowadays.
I have found this size to be a good "balance"...I like to veg indoors about a month or so. These smallish containers provide excellent yielding plants.
I only transplant once from a 16 oz styro cup into the .71s.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
LOL....thanks skunky!!!
I very seldom use anything larger than .71 gal container for indoor growing nowadays.
I have found this size to be a good "balance"...I like to veg indoors about a month or so. These smallish containers provide excellent yielding plants.
I only transplant once from a 16 oz styro cup into the .71s.


That's interesting too. The pots I grew in before these were 3litre (around .7gal). They provided me 2 oz dry per plant, mostly. lol. After just 12 days veg' from clone. they were 3.5 ft tall. My plants now are also 3.5ft tall, and fattening nicely. Sometimes I look and think they're going to make it to the 2oz per plant, sometimes I think they won't. although i do have 2 more plants. So things may well even out. I've still got 17-18 days left of flower, and I'd say they are easily on the 1oz per plant mark. I'll post pic's tomorrow, i still haven't done the batteries.

Also, something else that might interest you, I've been told that what I'm doing couldn't be accomplished in soil. My clones had an 18 day veg' and are in 500ml containers.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Also, something else that might interest you, I've been told that what I'm doing couldn't be accomplished in soil. My clones had an 18 day veg' and are in 500ml containers.
Many years ago, out of sheer laziness, I grew out loads of plants in 16 ounce styro cups (soil)....only because I was too lazy to transplant them to larger containers.
Well, other than having to water/feed them much more often than plants in larger containers, they grew fine. If I remember I got 10 to twenty grams out of each of those dwarf plants. I still grow out my "leftover" plants in 16 oz cups, I have even done this outdoors.
16 ounce is the smallest I've ever used.
500 ml is apx 16 ounces, I think!
Cool.
 
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