root slime? DWC and organics dont mix?
- Thread starter splifjoint
- Start date
splifjoint
Member
Thanks everyone! I have learned soo much from you all. Garden has turned around and I am really looking forward to future harvest. I've implemented the tea and wow. I've decided that it doesn't matter if you're using organics or chemical you still got to use the tea!! I send some pics soon. Thanks again Heisnburg
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Once you have the slime you will always always always have it. Always.
Just use the tea..it's kind of a pain but the plants LOVE it.
Cheers mate.
Just use the tea..it's kind of a pain but the plants LOVE it.
Cheers mate.
Weedo Bandito
Member
I always enjoy reading these root-slime threads. It’s always a splendid combination of fact, myth and outright bullshit that makes for great reading. I’ve been a DWC grower since 2011. That may not seem like a long time, but I’ve seen my share of problems in the grow room including slime.
Heisenberg’s tea, always seems to get a lot attention as a cure. Maybe it works. I’ve never made it myself. I can tell you that I didn’t make it through the first two sentences of his treatise on root slime before calling BULLSHIT on it. He writes,
“When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC…you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow.”
Sounds official doesn’t it? But, when I googled Cyanobacteria, Wikipedia said,
“Cyanobacteria…is a phylum of bacteria that obtain their energy through photosynthesis."
The California Department of Public Health’s web page says,
” Blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) are any of a number of species of microscopic bacteria that are photosynthetic. They may exist as single cells or groups of cells. They occur naturally in surface waters.When conditions are optimal, including light and temperature, levels of nutrients (i.e., phosphorous and nitrogen, and the ratio of the two), and lack of water turbulence, blue-green algae can quickly multiply into a bloom.”
So, Cyanobacteria IS algae, it NEEDS LIGHT and DOESN’T NEED OXYGEN. Rather, it gives off oxygen as a by-product of photosynthesis. Looking further into it. It seems that these bacteria are everywhere and need only the proper conditions in order to flourish. It’s not something that your grow catches or comes down with. Therefore, there is no cure. It’s always there.
The grower’s job then is deny it the conditions it needs to grow. To me, the very idea of introducing a brew made chiefly from worm shit and complex carbohydrates/sugars into my grow operation to combat a bacteria problem is just wrong conceptually. The only thing I want growing in my op is weed.
The easiest, most cost effective way I have found to suppress root slime algae is to keep your DWC sterile using a few chemicals ideally suited for that purpose. I use an Iodophor sanitizer to clean and sterilize everything including my buckets, airstones, air lines and measuring tools at every res change. Then, I add a shot glass full (30 to 40 mils) of 35% strength H2O2 to each 5gallon bucket (3 gallons of water) every 4 days. I have no slime issues and everything is nice and clean.
Lots of guys talk about H2O2, but blow it off as ineffective. They use terms like "safe level" but don't bother to explain what they think that a "safe level" is. Has anyone ever seen a plant that suffered from too much H2O2? Me neither. I would argue that they are under using the product.
Heisenberg’s tea, always seems to get a lot attention as a cure. Maybe it works. I’ve never made it myself. I can tell you that I didn’t make it through the first two sentences of his treatise on root slime before calling BULLSHIT on it. He writes,
“When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC…you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow.”
Sounds official doesn’t it? But, when I googled Cyanobacteria, Wikipedia said,
“Cyanobacteria…is a phylum of bacteria that obtain their energy through photosynthesis."
The California Department of Public Health’s web page says,
” Blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) are any of a number of species of microscopic bacteria that are photosynthetic. They may exist as single cells or groups of cells. They occur naturally in surface waters.When conditions are optimal, including light and temperature, levels of nutrients (i.e., phosphorous and nitrogen, and the ratio of the two), and lack of water turbulence, blue-green algae can quickly multiply into a bloom.”
So, Cyanobacteria IS algae, it NEEDS LIGHT and DOESN’T NEED OXYGEN. Rather, it gives off oxygen as a by-product of photosynthesis. Looking further into it. It seems that these bacteria are everywhere and need only the proper conditions in order to flourish. It’s not something that your grow catches or comes down with. Therefore, there is no cure. It’s always there.
The grower’s job then is deny it the conditions it needs to grow. To me, the very idea of introducing a brew made chiefly from worm shit and complex carbohydrates/sugars into my grow operation to combat a bacteria problem is just wrong conceptually. The only thing I want growing in my op is weed.
The easiest, most cost effective way I have found to suppress root slime algae is to keep your DWC sterile using a few chemicals ideally suited for that purpose. I use an Iodophor sanitizer to clean and sterilize everything including my buckets, airstones, air lines and measuring tools at every res change. Then, I add a shot glass full (30 to 40 mils) of 35% strength H2O2 to each 5gallon bucket (3 gallons of water) every 4 days. I have no slime issues and everything is nice and clean.
Lots of guys talk about H2O2, but blow it off as ineffective. They use terms like "safe level" but don't bother to explain what they think that a "safe level" is. Has anyone ever seen a plant that suffered from too much H2O2? Me neither. I would argue that they are under using the product.
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legallyflying
Well-Known Member
^
This guy is full of shit. Need proof? He lives in Las Vegas...and it shows
I would suggest you dig a little deeper than "Wikipedia" and some state web site before making bold statements that Heisenberg and everyone else that uses EWC tea to combat Cyanobacteria are kooks.
FYI Cyanobacteria...sometimes called blue green algae is NOT an algae. There are a myriad of species of Cyanobacteria and some can sustain long long long periods without light. They also indeed need oxygen. Plants produce oxygen but they also need oxygen at night when they are producing CO2
At any rate, I'm not going to get into some douche bag internet fight about it but suffice to say, your statement represent a gross over simplification of a complex issue in hydroponics. There are plenty of examples where throwing h2o2 at the problem and hoping for the best are not the solution.
This guy is full of shit. Need proof? He lives in Las Vegas...and it shows
I would suggest you dig a little deeper than "Wikipedia" and some state web site before making bold statements that Heisenberg and everyone else that uses EWC tea to combat Cyanobacteria are kooks.
FYI Cyanobacteria...sometimes called blue green algae is NOT an algae. There are a myriad of species of Cyanobacteria and some can sustain long long long periods without light. They also indeed need oxygen. Plants produce oxygen but they also need oxygen at night when they are producing CO2
At any rate, I'm not going to get into some douche bag internet fight about it but suffice to say, your statement represent a gross over simplification of a complex issue in hydroponics. There are plenty of examples where throwing h2o2 at the problem and hoping for the best are not the solution.
SnaFuu
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with legally flying.
And weedo, who really cares what it is anyway? There are pathogens in our water. Period. We don't want THEM to thrive, while still allowing our roots to flourish.
You can accomplish by sterilizing with harsh chemicals (which MUST have a small, negative effect on our roots) OR add a bunch of good guys to eat the bad ones and keep them from multiplying too much. This is the route i choose for my system.
The fact is, this "cyanobacteria" (whatever it is) thrives in water that's 69f with tons of DO. The exact res conditions i shoot for. And since i refuse to go the harsh sterilizing route, im just glad i have an alternative. Trust me it's a lot more work than pouring some bleach in my res.
but to each their own.
And weedo, who really cares what it is anyway? There are pathogens in our water. Period. We don't want THEM to thrive, while still allowing our roots to flourish.
You can accomplish by sterilizing with harsh chemicals (which MUST have a small, negative effect on our roots) OR add a bunch of good guys to eat the bad ones and keep them from multiplying too much. This is the route i choose for my system.
The fact is, this "cyanobacteria" (whatever it is) thrives in water that's 69f with tons of DO. The exact res conditions i shoot for. And since i refuse to go the harsh sterilizing route, im just glad i have an alternative. Trust me it's a lot more work than pouring some bleach in my res.
but to each their own.
Weedo Bandito
Member
As I said from the get-go ... some fact, some myth and some outright bullshit. Sounds like you have all those bases covered. If your worm shit soup works for you - power to ya. My way is easier and cheaper.
Scroga
Well-Known Member
The difference I have noticed is that sterilizing, there is that fine line weedo mentioned..not enough-its not fully suppressed, too much rhizo damage/girls in shock..more delay ect
If you supress nicley the water culture is again hospitable but the plant is still in a state of lockout and it needs to be coaxed back to health...
Ewc on the other hand promotes optimal recovery and fresh new growth on all fronts... No stress no struggling to regain health issues..
If you supress nicley the water culture is again hospitable but the plant is still in a state of lockout and it needs to be coaxed back to health...
Ewc on the other hand promotes optimal recovery and fresh new growth on all fronts... No stress no struggling to regain health issues..
splifjoint
Member
Its super cheap to make tea! 50$equals tea for a year. I'd rather not use chemicals on my babies. No way. Tea is heaven sent.
Weedo, read some of the heisenberg tea topic and you'll see shitload of people that got their problems solved by folowing his instructions. That should sugest his "worm shit" works. If dumping oxidative chemicals works for you, you go do that.
Scroga, even worse, too much can cause iritation of the root tisue and quickly disipating peroxide can then fall to the lower concentration where pathogens can thrive on the damaged root scells free of any symbiotic microorganisms.
Scroga, even worse, too much can cause iritation of the root tisue and quickly disipating peroxide can then fall to the lower concentration where pathogens can thrive on the damaged root scells free of any symbiotic microorganisms.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
People fail to realize that bleach and h2o2 are strong oxidizers and once they have oxidize something..they don't work anymore. So unless you have a chlorine meter or a way to need measure h2o2 the situation above can unfold rapidly. Like fire!!
I had a mild case of alike and figured I would try bleach. I added the usual dose..thinking oh yeah bitch, eat that. I came back 3 hours later and there was slime everywhere!! Like EVERY FUCKING WHERE. I have never seen something explode so fast. It was freaky.
Cleaned out. Added tea. 5 days later...root explosion
I had a mild case of alike and figured I would try bleach. I added the usual dose..thinking oh yeah bitch, eat that. I came back 3 hours later and there was slime everywhere!! Like EVERY FUCKING WHERE. I have never seen something explode so fast. It was freaky.
Cleaned out. Added tea. 5 days later...root explosion
Moishe
Active Member
DON'T use Algen Extract in DWC. It's bad news. You need to completely scrub out your buckets with bleach/oxyclean/citrus spray or some sort of medical/food grade sanitizer. Then rinse them through with an H2O2 solution.
House & Gardens Aqua Flakes is one of the cleanest foods on the market. If you're having serious slime problems, I would say cut out the Roots Exelurator. If you're going by their chart, you only really want to use .1ml/gal of Roots Exelurator, it's more than enough, you won't have better results (unless you want slime) if you use .25-.5 (they just want you to buy more of that shit because it's fucking expensive). If you want to do a very clean and organic-ish nutrient solution. I would suggest using H&G Aqua Flakes/Roots Exelurator/MultiZen/Amino Treatment, Strata's SOS (http://www.strata-intl.com/SOS/Super-Organic-Stimulator-p-78.html) <---This stuff is fucking miracle bennies, I shit you not. Roots run cleaner with SOS than they will in a sterile setup (bleach or peroxide), and you can pretty much forget about salt buildup/drastic pH fluctuation with SOS. I hate talking products up, especially on the internet, but it is a really great additive. Then just run the same thing + Bud XL/Top Booster/Shooting Powder for the last month of flower. Good luck with your next grow bro.
House & Gardens Aqua Flakes is one of the cleanest foods on the market. If you're having serious slime problems, I would say cut out the Roots Exelurator. If you're going by their chart, you only really want to use .1ml/gal of Roots Exelurator, it's more than enough, you won't have better results (unless you want slime) if you use .25-.5 (they just want you to buy more of that shit because it's fucking expensive). If you want to do a very clean and organic-ish nutrient solution. I would suggest using H&G Aqua Flakes/Roots Exelurator/MultiZen/Amino Treatment, Strata's SOS (http://www.strata-intl.com/SOS/Super-Organic-Stimulator-p-78.html) <---This stuff is fucking miracle bennies, I shit you not. Roots run cleaner with SOS than they will in a sterile setup (bleach or peroxide), and you can pretty much forget about salt buildup/drastic pH fluctuation with SOS. I hate talking products up, especially on the internet, but it is a really great additive. Then just run the same thing + Bud XL/Top Booster/Shooting Powder for the last month of flower. Good luck with your next grow bro.