Root Submersion Quantity?

igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
wasssssssup!?

I am running an ebb and flow, floods 2x a day for 15 minutes on 4 mommas.

My question is this, how much of the roots should be submerged in the solution when it floods? ALL, 1/2, 1/4, or just tickling the bottom of the roots?

Thanks
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
excellent oxygenation of the roots is a reason that the flood and drain system was developed and works so well. I flood up to about 3 inches below the main stem base, so most of the roots (if not all) get wet. I flood this way so a greater vacuum is caused and all of the rootball is oxygenated. Nutrient uptake can still take place happily when not flooding so high but full oxygenation cannot.
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
excellent oxygenation of the roots is a reason that the flood and drain system was developed and works so well. I flood up to about 3 inches below the main stem base, so most of the roots (if not all) get wet. I flood this way so a greater vacuum is caused and all of the rootball is oxygenated. Nutrient uptake can still take place happily when not flooding so high but full oxygenation cannot.
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Its kind of a hybrid system...I run an air pump directly into the heart of the rootzone where the water is touching. Do you still think the almost complete root submersion is necessary?
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
No I think the air pump is a waste of time my friend, the draining of the water pulls air downwards over the rootball in quantities way and above whats actually taken by the roots. So you are basically blowing air over the unsubmerged roots??? You will cause drying out of the roots especially as you are also only flooding 2x a day.
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
No I think the air pump is a waste of time my friend, the draining of the water pulls air downwards over the rootball in quantities way and above whats actually taken by the roots. So you are basically blowing air over the unsubmerged roots??? You will cause drying out of the roots especially as you are also only flooding 2x a day.
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Not really though, the pump only runs when its flooding, and the end of the pump is down in the water at the base of the rootzone in the middle
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
I have made flood tables for nearly 20 years mate and if there was a need for an air pump then I would have realised it. An air pump is only necessary when roots are in a reservoir continually, as I have said more than enough O2 is pulled down over the rootball when the drainage takes place. You have to get the balance right of time to flood and time to drain just right for optimum oxygenation. If you drain too slowly then oxygenation is compromised due to a poor vacuum. Over and out.
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
I have made flood tables for nearly 20 years mate and if there was a need for an air pump then I would have realised it. An air pump is only necessary when roots are in a reservoir continually, as I have said more than enough O2 is pulled down over the rootball when the drainage takes place. You have to get the balance right of time to flood and time to drain just right for optimum oxygenation. If you drain too slowly then oxygenation is compromised due to a poor vacuum. Over and out.
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So you dont oxygenate with anything?
I use commercial hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate the water and I also use a pump to pump oxygen from the the air in there. You dont do either? Neither one is necessary?
And I ASSUME the general hydroponics grow tubs (c) that I bought are draining at the correct rate. lol
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
No, I experimented years ago with oxygenated water and found it to be a waste of time, no advantage just more wires, electric and chemicals. The whole point of flood and drain is the ability to oxygenate your rootball by natural means gravity/vacuum. Many will beg to differ but I always grow multiple crops alongside each other to come to my conclusions and my conclusion was that an air stone in the reservoir did nothing more than cause a hum in the otherwise quiet room! Each to their own though...
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
No, I experimented years ago with oxygenated water and found it to be a waste of time, no advantage just more wires, electric and chemicals. The whole point of flood and drain is the ability to oxygenate your rootball by natural means gravity/vacuum. Many will beg to differ but I always grow multiple crops alongside each other to come to my conclusions and my conclusion was that an air stone in the reservoir did nothing more than cause a hum in the otherwise quiet room! Each to their own though...
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So what is your take on aeroponics and bubbleponics? goofy overhyped waste of time?
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
By no means a waste of time but not as user friendly as good old flood and drain. Lifting up a whole plant to sort out issues in the reservoir is not my idea of easy growing. Call me old fashioned.... But as I say a lot on here 'if it aint broke dont fix it'.
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
By no means a waste of time but not as user friendly as good old flood and drain. Lifting up a whole plant to sort out issues in the reservoir is not my idea of easy growing. Call me old fashioned.... But as I say a lot on here 'if it aint broke dont fix it'.
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well dont you think if the principal of absorbtion within the aeroponic systems is greater than ebb and flow traht a hybridized system would yield slightly better results with an easy setup like i have described?
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
No, because more O2 is supplied than required. What next 4 or 5 airstones in the reservoir? The aeroponics system is simply an off shoot of the flood and drain system, if aeroponics was more effective then food producers would be using it. Most commercial tomato/pepper/ courgette etc etc producers use the flood and drain system with no added oxygen, some use very simple drip irrigation systems. None (in the Uk) use aeroponics. This must add weight to my beliefs dont you think?
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
No, because more O2 is supplied than required. What next 4 or 5 airstones in the reservoir? The aeroponics system is simply an off shoot of the flood and drain system, if aeroponics was more effective then food producers would be using it. Most commercial tomato/pepper/ courgette etc etc producers use the flood and drain system with no added oxygen, some use very simple drip irrigation systems. None (in the Uk) use aeroponics. This must add weight to my beliefs dont you think?
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of course you are the elder here thats why im asking, but as the youth you have to expect me to question everything
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
igothydrotoneverywhere said:
of course you are the elder here thats why im asking, but as the youth you have to expect me to question everything
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Please dont think I am patronising you, I am most definately not, you ask valid points and I respond with my experience, if I thought otherwise I wouldnt answer so many questions would I...:joint:
 
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