Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1

ttystikk said:

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As far as running MAP in hydro goes, I'd be inclined to agree that more ammonia isn't wise and suggest MKP, or monopotassium phosphate instead.

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yeah I understand.....what I was refering to was the ammonium sulphate which is high ammoniacal Nitrogen along with sulfur
which isnt needed because of the Magnesium sulfate along with the sulfur in peters

that is all I was saying
the addition of AS isn't needed along with MAP

but yeah.....that super tiny bit is good
that is why it is in there no more or less

and once diluted into solution.....it is almost non existant

Great input, I hear you.

I came across this mix on icmag (or was it Grasscity) after several hours' reading and liking the OP's methods and analysis.

Like I say I'm not fixed on running these - or any additions to the base for that matter - but I am interested in learning / adjusting through tweaks, improvements and mistakes.

MKP is on my next shopping list, although I'm reluctant to push K any higher. Other P sources are few: phosphoric acid is pH crazy, and phosphite anything is probably unstable. Hence MAP seemed most applicable, and I don't anticipate issues in the low ppm dosage in my mix. But it's all gonna be in the experimentin'...

if am trying to figure out this whole P deal overall in this industry

all studys find that P really isnt needed in high doses at all for optimum results

more so in soil than in hydro....where P is readily available

I have been running an experiment where by I have been running strait grow
3-1-2
and results have been absolutely perfect
nice solid buds
the addition of Mg and S bring out the terps and smells greatly through a little epsum

week 5 day 1 with 3-1-2 only

Wisher2 said:

yeah I understand.....what I was refering to was the ammonium sulphate which is high ammoniacal Nitrogen along with sulfur
which isnt needed because of the Magnesium sulfate along with the sulfur in peters

that is all I was saying
the addition of AS isn't needed along with MAP

but yeah.....that super tiny bit is good
that is why it is in there no more or less

and once diluted into solution.....it is almost non existant

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I've been told by the pros that part of the reason it's in there is to help balance pH.

Wisher2 said:

if am trying to figure out this whole P deal overall in this industry

all studys find that P really isnt needed in high doses at all for optimum results

more so in soil than in hydro....where P is readily available

I have been running an experiment where by I have been running strait grow
3-1-2
and results have been absolutely perfect
nice solid buds
the addition of Mg and S bring out the terps and smells greatly through a little epsum

Click to expand...

That's the way you do it! That's been my mix and it's a good all around fert.

ttystikk said:

That's the way you do it! That's been my mix and it's a good all around fert.

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3-1-2 is how you do it @tyystikk??

How do you get to 3-1-2 with Jacks + Calnit? Surely it's closer to 2-1-2 (20-11-26 total)?

ruwtz said:

3-1-2 is how you do it @tyystikk??

How do you get to 3-1-2 with Jacks + Calnit? Surely it's closer to 2-1-2 (20-11-26 total)?

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depends on how much Calnit you run

ruwtz said:

3-1-2 is how you do it @tyystikk??

How do you get to 3-1-2 with Jacks + Calnit? Surely it's closer to 2-1-2 (20-11-26 total)?

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2g/gal calcium nitrate
2g/gal 5-11-26 mix
1g/gal epsom salt

I deliberately under fill with water so I can set EC where I want it.

Maybe my numbers are wrong?

ttystikk said:

2g/gal calcium nitrate
2g/gal 5-11-26 mix
1g/gal epsom salt

I deliberately under fill with water so I can set EC where I want it.

Maybe my numbers are wrong?

Click to expand...

that makes sense and brings you closer to 3-1-2
as the 3/2/1 will bring you to 2-1-2

ttystikk said:

2g/gal calcium nitrate
2g/gal 5-11-26 mix
1g/gal epsom salt

I deliberately under fill with water so I can set EC where I want it.

Maybe my numbers are wrong?

Click to expand...

Gotcha. It's a recipe I see a lot with these mixes, I'll take it as given!

Anyways, not sweating this too much, I'm set for salts for a long while.

Today I've been cloning the third generations and thinning out the veg table as I have more plants than I have room for. Never a bad thing but I would like to streamline this so that I know when to clone, how many to take and to dial in a training program ahead of flower.

ruwtz said:

Gotcha. It's a recipe I see a lot with these mixes, I'll take it as given!

Anyways, not sweating this too much, I'm set for salts for a long while.

Today I've been cloning the third generations and thinning out the veg table as I have more plants than I have room for. Never a bad thing but I would like to streamline this so that I know when to clone, how many to take and to dial in a training program ahead of flower.

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in any case it will work

FUUUUUUCK!

I came in this morning to find the power out and flowers sitting still in the dark. No dehu, humidity up 80%, walls cold and damp. No lights as they're run from the Gavita controller on 120v. No scrubber, so proper stinky too! Total meltdown, I was sure to lose everything.

We had some rare rain last night so I figured it must have gotten inside my building and caused a ground fault. No breakers were tripped in the panel but I have GFI's at the front of every circuit and the main one for flower room was tripped and would not reset.

I unplugged everything one at a time from the circuit until I found the issue... I have an exterior outlet running yard stuff and those things were compromised from the rain. Once that was unplugged the GFI reset and we're back up and running.

Strange that it tripped the entire circuit instead of just the exterior GFI but whatever.

Panic over.

Back in business.

ruwtz said:

FUUUUUUCK!

I came in this morning to find the power out and flowers sitting still in the dark. No dehu, humidity up 80%, walls cold and damp. No lights as they're run from the Gavita controller on 120v. No scrubber, so proper stinky too! Total meltdown, I was sure to lose everything.

We had some rare rain last night so I figured it must have gotten inside my building and caused a ground fault. No breakers were tripped in the panel but I have GFI's at the front of every circuit and the main one for flower room was tripped and would not reset.

I unplugged everything one at a time from the circuit until I found the issue... I have an exterior outlet running yard stuff and those things were compromised from the rain. Once that was unplugged the GFI reset and we're back up and running.

Strange that it tripped the entire circuit instead of just the exterior GFI but whatever.

Panic over.

Back in business.

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If it kept you from getting the shock of your life then mission accomplished.

ttystikk said:

If it kept you from getting the shock of your life then mission accomplished.

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Yeah totally.

Its funny, when I couldn't find the problem I started freaking out that rainwater was in the walls and my roof was bad and that I was a shitty builder with ideas waaaay over my pay grade and that i'd totally fucked up and it was $25k up shit creek / no paddle, yada yada. It really was that tense for a good hour whilst I tried to figure it out, and obviously immense relief when I did.

I feel much better knowing that, in fact, my building is solid, my work is good, and crucially my electrics are done the right way.

Crisis averted.

Also situation was not helped by the decision of 4 billion ants to hide from said rain by moving their entire nest in through a crack under my front door. The queen, her eggs, everything. I took my anger out on them by dousing the crawling army in several cups of white vinegar, and now my space stinks like an English fish & chip shop.

Lolz.

ruwtz said:

Yeah totally.

Its funny, when I couldn't find the problem I started freaking out that rainwater was in the walls and my roof was bad and that I was a shitty builder with ideas waaaay over my pay grade and that i'd totally fucked up and it was $25k up shit creek / no paddle, yada yada. It was that tense for a good hour whilst I tried to figure it out, and obviously immense relief when I did.

I feel much better knowing that, in fact, my building is solid, my work is good, and crucially my electrics are done the right way.

Crisis averted.

Also situation was not helped by the decision of 4 billion ants to hide from said rain by moving their entire nest in through a crack under my front door. The queen, her eggs, everything. I took my anger out on them by dousing the crawling army in several cups of white vinegar, and now my space stinks like an English fish & chip shop.

Lolz.

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get Diatomacious earth and sprinkle it at that crack under the door

surround any spot that they could potentially get in

my area has an insane amount of ants.....I just sprinkle everywhere....no more ants

I even dust my fruit trees at the base....no more aphid farming

I dust for ants with cayenne pepper. Very effective!

Pics update...

Veg table is way too full and i'm struggling to manage numbers of each strain as I prepare to replace those finishing up in flower. This is tricky to manage as the Larry OG in particular grows lanky and thin foliage. I don't have any room to train.

I've given a few away already but still too dense in here. Already wishing for a bigger room.



Nursery is also at capacity. Third gen Blackjack and Gorilla Glue up top, Larry OG in the cloner below. Not really in a rush for these to root as I figure out ideal timings to take cuttings, move to veg etc.

This is the only stage where having too many is a nice problem to have.



FLOWER:

Gorilla Glue and 24K Gold scrogged on the right, Black Jack and Larry OG growing wild on the left. Real tight to work in here now.



BLACKJACK (week 6 of 8 / day 44)

Six plants in here and every one of them coming through with different colors, from dark green to lime, then one showing this deep purpling of top fan leaves.

I have no idea if its a problem or simply this pheno.



They're not bulking up much yet so I think these are going to run over the expected finish time of 8 weeks.



LARRY OG (week 6 of 8 / day 44):

Stretched tall, dense foliage of thick shiny indica leaves, flowers set nicely and fattening up. Responded well to overfeeding and was the easiest strain to find the sweet spot (peaking now at 1.6EC).

Found a couple of pollen sacs on one of these so will be ditching those clones; no real loss as I have 8 others ran from seed to choose from.



24K GOLD (week 8 of 10, day 59)

The oldest plants in the garden (popped these seeds in late July!), just 2 of them on this table after losing 3 as males after flipping. A few nice tops here, considering their life of stress.

They really are the guinea pigs of this purpose built room.




Flowers bursting at every node down the stem through the screen, and i've really let them go down there.

GORILLA GLUE (week 8 of 10 / day 59):

Four plants in here, all from bagseed, just one showing any hermie traits and although I have been plucking off occasional ball sacs I have also squeezed a couple of seeds from its flowers so I know it did manage to self pollinate.

I've not found any other seeds when gently squeezing random calyxes, so hopefully this was a contained event. The buds haven't swollen on this one much.



A totally different one of the four has had problems the past week or so (front corner of pic above), with big fan leaves feeling dry and brittle/crispy and increasingly pale. Feed has been consistent and so presuming a lockout I ran Dripclean through with the last res change to wash out heavy salt buildup in the medium.

Sure enough I can see thick white deposits on the hydroton layer in the table. Some color has come back into the leaves but also some burned tips. Feed has been rolled back by 0.3 to 1.3EC and I will continue to fade slightly to end now.

It may just be finishing but it seems a little premature with 3 weeks to go.



I have to check my DIY halo drippers every few days as they easily get clogged. This a combination of heavy salts but also staking them close to the medium and coco or rockwool getting in the way.

Drip Clean takes care of the salts but seems risky introducing it mid run and should be added from the start I think.



I read something about snipping the very tops of buds to encourage them to fatten up, and feeling like I had nothing to lose I gave it an isolated test on 3-4 colas of one plant. No difference noted.

Stoner myth?



A few things i'd like to improve over future runs:

• Getting feed levels dialed for every strain = zero burn or lockup
• Keeping the lower third completely barren and reducing popcorn / larfy branch crap
• Definitely scrog everything
• Including Drip Clean start to finish
• No more rockwool

Another thing I want to work better is the Quest 105 dehumidifier. I have it on one setting around the clock, and have not tried changing it for day/night, nor is it practical to do so.

Seems night time in flower can peak up at 80% (at 63-66F). I currently have no way of tracking when or for how long, just a max reading, and I feel like this could easily be a limiting factor.

I observe no issues such as PM but since I am not reclaiming anywhere near as much water as expected for mature plants I know transpiration is less than optimum.

Perhaps a higher RH at low temps is comparable to lower RH at higher temps and is therefore nothing to worry about?

I did ask Quest directly and their only advice was to warm the room at night to 72F, but this would also require a manual change at the AC every day and it just doesn't work for me.

Any thoughts i'd love to hear them!

Wisher2 said:

which is calcium "Nitrate".....not ammoniacal nitrogen

I was refering to the ammoniacal that is being used in the recipe above

which I wouldnt recommend....the reason why I questioned the decision to use it.....along with MAP when Jacks is already plenty for cannabis

IMO using Jacks is a good way to run a really great garden while not having to really mix your own salts

or you can just order a base pack of salts and use a nutrient calc to weigh out each salt individually in order to taylor your feed

but IMO mixing a well blended mix with an abundants of P/K and dumping more P/K in coco is counter productive
can cause toxicity
so is adding Ammoniacal Nitrogen which can cause ph imbalance in hydroponic application and is not easily absorbed as well there are peer reviewed university studies which show it is counter productive in hydroponic application
but I am not here to talk down or insight negativity.....just questioned and gave my opinion based on research

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I can expand a little on this after picking up some extra reading this week.

Harley Smith explains how the Dutch augment the ammonium to nitrate ratio in high CO2 / full spectrum greenhouses, as ammoniacal N converts to amino acids (bonus: chelates Ca) and finally yield-affecting enzymes whereas the growth-oriented nitrates are not assimilated and stored in the plant instead. Obviously this is not desirable in flower, affects taste etc.

Also MAP is effective as it is highly soluble and immediately available to the plant at the root zone, basically instant energy.

I'm not committed to MAP and will have to see results for myself, but I'm interested in a full set of tools to meet the plants' needs. Lots of learning ahead!