UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
me too.
i'm gonna shave my head, get a swatsika tattoo, and march in the streets because it makes me sad.
Schuylaars Sesh - The New Wedge Issue for 2014 Mid-Terms..
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i'm gonna shave my head, get a swatsika tattoo, and march in the streets because it makes me sad.
urban1026835
Well-Known Member
beat you to it shaved my head years ago and i have a giant 88 on my stomach...(poor decisions,prison politics blah blah)
urban1026835
Well-Known Member
and no it it doesnt mean hail hitler
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
some conspiracy theory about martin van buren?
1) I notice you're using prices from December 2009 despite my comment about the financial crisis. Now let's look at your original comment: "minimum wage goes up 40%, the big mac goes up 15%. check the BLS for other commodities: milk, eggs, bread, etc. and you will see that none of them climbed as quick as wages did." In reality, the increases in prices of those commodities vastly outpaced wage increases in portions of the period when wages were rising. Milk and eggs, for example, skyrocketed 40%+ before the full minimum wage increase had even been phased in, to be dented in the financial crisis period along with almost all other goods (overall CPI went negative).
(Caveat: I think this is a terrible way of measuring the effect I predicted, but since you chose it despite the data not supporting your assertions, I'm more than happy to play along.)
2) In that period when the federal minimum wage was increasing, many states--many of them large states--already had minimum wages higher than the federal level, and thus they were unaffected by the federal increase, unless there were also state increases. Thus you would not expect to see prices increasing at anywhere close to the level of the federal minimum wage increase.
3) In that period of the 40% federal increase, two of the three commodities you chose jumped by 30%+. Don't forget what my original comment was: "I suspect many of the "gains" to minimum wage workers are erased by higher prices." I never said price increases outpaced wage gains. Not even close. I said many of the gains were eaten by higher prices, and your data seems to agree.
WHOOPS.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
lots of talk to try to bury the numbers and references back to your own (wisely) hedged remarks, but it doesn't change the numbers.
we can try this over a decades long time period to help erase some of the effects of the recession, but i gotta warn ya: me and kynes already did. guess how it turned out?
go run the numbers yourself if you want.
we can try this over a decades long time period to help erase some of the effects of the recession, but i gotta warn ya: me and kynes already did. guess how it turned out?
go run the numbers yourself if you want.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
You can also do it over a century to hide your retarded logic. Or you can ask anybody with a fucking pulse if shit has gotten more expensive since 2005? Or asking how fucking well raising the minimum wage did for them and their families? ask for Bentley pics from their fat stacks moron tell them to forget they're poorer now cause you're doing the numbers. Derp Derp
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
so bitter and devoid of facts or any contribution to the debate at hand at all.
bad day at the "greese" traps?
I'm not burying the numbers. I'm proudly and loudly trumpeting them. Everyone, please, I beg you to look at what I said and then to look at the numbers Buck provided. Thank you.
Where do you think the money comes from when you demand that businesses pay their workers more money? The owner's profit? Ha! No, they just charge higher prices or cut other costs (you ignored this in your little prices diatribe as well, giving my thesis even more credibility) to make up the difference. Workers get higher wages but also pay higher prices, and income inequality--despite those hefty increases in the minimum wage--is never dented. I'm not opposed to increasing the minimum wage in some circumstances. The empirical evidence suggests there is little impact on employment, just as the study I posted in support of your position said there was no relationship between minimum wage increases and business failures. The positive effect on economic growth, however, is undeniable.
That said, people don't make minimum wage because businesspeople are greedy. No, people make minimum wage because we are greedy. Wal-Mart and McDonalds have discovered that selling things at the lowest possible prices is the best way to get our dollars, and that's how we meaningfully vote. Legislatively forcing them to pay more just forces us to pay a little more to roll around at the bottom of the barrel we're content to enable.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
we both know what the numbers say, the prices do not go up faster than the wages.
as kynes found out, this holds true even over the course of decades. you probably took a quick look at a few commodities and realized it too, otherwise you'd have something to show for this debate.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
devoid of facts eh? People are poorer now after a minimum wage increase of 41 percent and your claiming it went as planned and what we need is another, ha! Do you take medication for your delusion?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
perhaps you missed the actual running of the numbers, which functions a lot like the running of the bulls. the only difference is that instead of idiots being gored by bulls, morons like you get steamrolled by cold, hard facts.
eggs, 12/2005: 1.350
eggs, 12/2009: 1.772
31% increase, wages went up 41%. suck my dick.
milk, 12/2005: 3.241
milk, 12/2009: 3.105
a decrease, while wages went up 41%. suck my dick.
bread, 12/2005: 1.046
bread, 12/2009: 1.390
a 33% increase, while wages went up 41%. suck my dick three times, baby.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
Once again, I never claimed prices went up faster than wages. Never. I said many of the gains are cancelled out, and the data you posted in your little attempt to refute me actually agreed with my thesis.
I would love to construct a minimum wage basket and compare the prices for items in the basket before and after minimum wage increases, but this is problematic. A lot of price increases and decreases have nothing to do with the minimum wage (as I already hinted when I said I thought your commodities pricing methodology was flawed). The price of milk, for example, probably has very little to do with the minimum wage and a lot more to do with a drought or ethanol mandates increasing the prices of feed for cows. Likewise, if we measured housing in 2006 and then in 2009, we would see a huge decrease in prices that also has no connection to the minimum wage.
If I knew of a good way to measure, I would be proposing it. My search for an academic paper on this subject yielded no results.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
like i said, you were wise to hedge your statement.
but the fact remains, not all the gains are cancelled out, just some of them. people still come out ahead.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
Well not really since we increased poverty not cured it. Nice try though.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you really asserting that a rise in minimum wage increased poverty, rather than the global financial crisis?
what a fucking dimwit.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
Are you sitting here with the proof right in front of you actually stating the minimum wage increase helped? A 41 percent increase in wages that equated to a .3 decline in poverty that didn't even last a year (pre financial cliff) is your idea of sucess?.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
and then min wage stayed the same, and poverty increased. why?
because of the global financial crisis that was 100% directly caused by barney frank.
really, we're doing fine without you here. go back to your greese.
nontheist
Well-Known Member
haha your so full of shit you just make it up as you go. Poverty was increasing near a decade before the collapse, it didn't remain the same dumbfucky. Try and figure something else out to blame your stupidity on.
