Schwaggy P's Random Stuff

Schwaggy P said:

Skunky Brewster #7 (Roadkill Skunk #5 x Iraqi) - Strayfox Gardenz ~ Day 27
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outliergenetix said:

was just listening to the bodhi on the potcast for like the 10th time and he was just saying how much he likes strayfox
looks so frosty already man gonna be a nice one. good stuff as usual.

so do you just reveg if you find something special? if so do you have to pull a little early to pull off a reveg. i did it before but with a big plant, not these like SoG plants like i got atm.

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Schwaggy P said:

Thanks. I take clones of everything I flower until I decide whether they are keepers.

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outliergenetix said:

dammit, that is not what i wanted to hear lol. that's what i used to do.

you mind throwing me some tips on my grow room design man. i am not getting the greatest info in threads i started. i can do it in dm if this is bothersome here. , basically i have been crippled with indecision because i am only buying/building once. money is a huge factor, but basically i already have my basement walled off from before but i am gonna put up tyvek insulated sheeting about a 10x20 room for insulation. i am not using that much for flowering eventually i will wall part off for veg but for A/C needs it is 10x20. the canopy is gonna be 4 600w HiD's (6x8 canopy)(they can be air cooled, but i am thinking DE CMH 630 to replace em eventually. now here is my real dilema, i cannot use a mini split really at least not with a compressor outside. the basement is partioned off as i said and the other part is well ventilated can even open windows. what i was gonna do is use a thru wall unit 12000btu and leave the compressor end in the ventilated other room of the basement same room i would air cool my hoods into if i did. my goal is a environmental controller for my dehumidifier and A/C... no C02

the other option is several individual cabinets with a 600w each in them. air cooled into the A/C room with same A/C setup as above. advantage here is i could maybe do a side bereeding prioject in a cabinet if built right with hepa filters at the same time as my headstash. otherwise i have to use an upstairs closet which is fine

anyway in your opinion do either of these work? i prefer the first for ease. do you think i lose too much light running a 6x8 canopy air cooled in a 10x20 room?. and is there some other light/ a/c setup that tyou think is a budget solution given i can use about 4k electricity NOT including the A/C in that number. you don';t have to explain allot at min if you could tell me i am making a mistake before i start. should i worry about light loss air cooling those 600w on a 6x8 canopy? i never used em air cooled down there before. i just dealt with the 95 degrees in summer but i want a perfect environment going forward, the basement is rdy to go just a few xtra bucks and my decisions await

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Schwaggy P said:

Before you get too involved in setups, what are your ultimate goals? The way you answer will go a long way to helping you get the most out of your space and budget.

For example, are you looking to just crop a few quick flowering cuts? Then you wouldn't need much veg space at all and would prioritize the flowering space.

Are you looking to start multiple breeding projects? Then you would need more veg area to keep copies of all your parental plants and clones of current pheno hunts.

Are you married to those lights or have you looked into Quantum Boards?

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outliergenetix said:

yea, those are the types questions i have asked myself. i didn't want to write a novel initially lol. my goal is to run packs makes seeds form said packs(just for my own preservation) and set aside any stand outs to use in breeding projects. i am new to breeding but i would like to try goofing around as a hobby. this is 95% my medicine and i am not opposed to sift and pressing seeded crops i have a 20 ton press already. need larger screens tho if imma de-seed and sift. anyway. that is the jist. pheno hunt and small batch preservation for personal use. this is why i thought cabinets liek the vader og yt channel but cooling a cabinet idk i am not an hvac guy by a long shot. i was thinking just use the upstairs closet you see in my journal atm as a breeding chamber 2 floors and a shower away and use a 6x8 canopy to run cpl things maybe flower dads in a closet upstairs so i don't have to open pollinatem, but. my issue open pollinating is if i want to preserve every pack i would have to alternate seed and flower runs and therefor 4 months 1 strain. anyway advise sempai
**oh to note i also really want to seed every pack so maybe i won't feel bad not cloning stuff and roll dice on re-vegging keepers. all to keep veg room in check size wise. i see that as a big obstacle if i keep clones of all my stuff until i decide. ik i will lose stuff that cures better than expected etc.. but if i have seeds i won't cry about it maybe lol
**i am not married to those lights i just cannot afford to go to $2k worth of led's right now while buying a 12-15kbtu a/c and adding dedicated circutes and buying al that insulted sheeting. i would love to switch to led and if the room goes well with HiDs, but i am in a finacnial hole till i get this all done. then i can maybe save for some fluence spyderx or maybe a diy quantum board, but i kinda need the room to work for a year with HiD
**as for veg space i will be making 1/2 the 20x10 veg this is why the 6x8 canopy in such a big space for now. i can keep flower canopy 6x8 in a 10x10 room once i put that wall up, and the other 10x10 is my moms and veg and seedlings clones etc..

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• Since this is just for personal use, a 4 600W HPS flowering space is going to give you tons of flower. If it's just you smoking, you'll have your years worth of smoke in one run. Assuming you're getting between 0.5-1g/W, you're looking at about 2.6-5.3lbs per run. Now assume you'll get about 5 runs per year in that space (~70days per run), that's 13-26.5lbs/yr. So unless you smoke through an oz. a day, you may want to consider scaling down.
• When pricing lights, also take into consideration the electrical cost of running them. So a Quantum Board (260W HLG) goes for about $330 vs a 600W HPS at around $160 (these are roughly comparable in stated footprint). Assuming you're paying $0.12/kWh, the QB costs $11.40/month, while the HPS costs $26.30/month. If you went with the QB, in one year, you would have saved $178.80 in electrical costs which more than pays for the difference. This also does not take into account the reduced cooling costs with LED and bulb replacement of the HPS. So make sure to include these types of costs in your consideration.
• If you're dipping your toe into breeding, make sure it's a headache worth dealing with before committing to a huge investment in money (but most importantly) time. You may not hear much about the time commitment, but trying to run medium to large scale grows with seed processing as a one-man op can be overwhelming. Perhaps starting with a 3x3 tent for seeds. Again, if this is just for personal, you really wouldn't need to get too involved in the breeding spaces, maybe a small 2x2 or 3x3 tent for males, then hand pollinating from the collected pollen. If you really need more than a couple hundred seeds of any cross then you may want to scale up. The small scale breeding write-up I did may be just enough and not require any more space/money/time investment.
• Keeping clones of plants you're pheno hunting doesn't need to take up much room. If you cut them back every so often and root new clones from the 2nd or 3rd pruning (just root the top you pruned), you could keep your copy in a 3x3inch square pot on a nursery tray. Fitting 18 pots per tray means you can keep 18 different clones perpetually in a very small space.

Schwaggy P said:

A few things to consider:

• Since this is just for personal use, a 4 600W HPS flowering space is going to give you tons of flower. If it's just you smoking, you'll have your years worth of smoke in one run. Assuming you're getting between 0.5-1g/W, you're looking at about 2.6-5.3lbs per run. Now assume you'll get about 5 runs per year in that space (~70days per run), that's 13-26.5lbs/yr. So unless you smoke through an oz. a day, you may want to consider scaling down.
• When pricing lights, also take into consideration the electrical cost of running them. So a Quantum Board (260W HLG) goes for about $330 vs a 600W HPS at around $160 (these are roughly comparable in stated footprint). Assuming you're paying $0.12/kWh, the QB costs $11.40/month, while the HPS costs $26.30/month. If you went with the QB, in one year, you would have saved $178.80 in electrical costs which more than pays for the difference. This also does not take into account the reduced cooling costs with LED and bulb replacement of the HPS. So make sure to include these types of costs in your consideration.
• If you're dipping your toe into breeding, make sure it's a headache worth dealing with before committing to a huge investment in money (but most importantly) time. You may not hear much about the time commitment, but trying to run medium to large scale grows with seed processing as a one-man op can be overwhelming. Perhaps starting with a 3x3 tent for seeds. Again, if this is just for personal, you really wouldn't need to get too involved in the breeding spaces, maybe a small 2x2 or 3x3 tent for males, then hand pollinating from the collected pollen. If you really need more than a couple hundred seeds of any cross then you may want to scale up. The small scale breeding write-up I did may be just enough and not require any more space/money/time investment.
• Keeping clones of plants you're pheno hunting doesn't need to take up much room. If you cut them back every so often and root new clones from the 2nd or 3rd pruning (just root the top you pruned), you could keep your copy in a 3x3inch square pot on a nursery tray. Fitting 18 pots per tray means you can keep 18 different clones perpetually in a very small space.

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outliergenetix said:

i never woulda thought a 260 would give me the density of a 600w hps, but you are saying they are comprable? because if you think i can do a 6x8 with 4 260w quantums then i can consider that. have you perosnally flowered with ones pulling that low wattage?

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Schwaggy P said:

I don't want to come off as a QB shill, it's just what I use because of performance, cost to run, and low heat. Everything you've seen me post has been grown under 260W QB. Here is a bank of QBs in my flower room.
View attachment 4277144
They produce some nice buds, these are between 1-1.5 ft main colas.
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They will penetrate into the canopy, here are some plants just before chop after removing the leaves to show the lowers.
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Here is one 260W in a 3x3 tent, and 2-260W in a 4x4 tent. These are multiple strains, so monocrops with better canopy management would allow closer light placement and better yield.
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I have a 130W QB in a 3x2 tent that I use for making seeds. The bud size is not impressive by any means, but they are fully pollinated, so they pretty much stop putting on mass at the time of pollination. All things considered, buds are full of seed and the light is great for the space/purpose.(the dead leaves at the base of the plants have since been cleaned up )
View attachment 4277162
Again, I'm not trying to sell you on the QB's, just trying to give you more options. Your heat worries with the HID can be a major factor that these QBs can mitigate. You might be able to get away with a smaller portable AC unit that vents out of a window. I have not used CMH lights, but have seen them in setups at the hydro shop and they can throw some heat.

I run a staggered perpetual system, so electrical cost savings and the time to clean hoods, replace bulbs was a significant part of my lighting choice calculus. The humidity and heat of my growing climate forces me to stay on the LED side of lighting. DE HPS would probably grow thicker colas, but anything much bigger than I'm getting will have a serious mold risk, so just keep in mind all of your environmental limitations/factors when making a decision.

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outliergenetix said:

wow shwaggy and those are further off the canopy than i woulda thought. hmmm, maybe i should rethink this. it would be ideal not having to run venting and all. i just never considered em because i assumed i needed the 600s to replace each light and they are like $600-1000 each, but i cannot argue with your results there. heat is my biggest concern, it is the biggest reason i am putting up the insulation and adding an a/c. i got tired of 4 months out of the yuear getting inferior buds, stressed plants getting pests etc.. i want harmony year round lol. thank you for all that info, maybe i will postpone my basement and run quantum boards in my closet till i can get all 4. so you think i can cover 6x8 with 4? or would i need to make it more like 4x6?
oh my only other concern using these qb boards is diodes burning out and replacing em, i assume if a cpl diodes burn out i need a whole new light? is that correct?

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Schwaggy P said:

They can burn plants if too close. I have to keep them a little higher because with different strains comes different heights and light tolerances. The reason the LED lights are less heat is because they are far more efficient with the input wattage relative to the HPS. So you are able to get the same results with far less wattage.

Another good point with LED, is since they don't throw as much infrared (something you get plenty of with HPS) you have to keep your ambient temps higher than HPS to maintian the plant metabolism. Where you would aim for about 75 degrees with HPS, you'd shoot for 80-85 degrees with LED to keep plant growth/processes happy. So, far less overall heat, and a need for higher ambient temps can help out with HVAC limitations.

I have 2-260W in a 4x4 tent that is doing great. My flower room has a 3x4 Table with 2-260W that gives killer results (probably a bit overkill, but I use the spillover light for adjacent tables), so 4 units would definitely take care of 6x8. There are a few threads about sourcing the parts individually (instead of the kits from a retailer) that end up being considerable less expensive compared to the all-in-one kits. If you dig through them you'll be able to get QB setups for about a third of the price. I did not go that route (just went with the kits) but many have had great success with some off-label components.

I have not had to deal with any burned out diodes. You would have to replace the diode board component only and some have gotten them for about $20-30. So, even if you have to replace the board (remove a few screws and couple wires), it's maybe once a year for less than a Hortilux bulb.

It's just something to consider, hopefully this helps.
Here's a solid thread:https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/

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outliergenetix said:

thanks allot this is what i needed to hear. i am now thinking of getting 2 of the 288 v2 i just saw basically same thing you have. using my 3x4 closet i am in till i can get 2 more then just doing a 4x8 canopy downstairs later, after i have 4 total QB's. much more conservative and i can keep that closet cold in the meantime because i live in that and 1 other room basically lol, so i keep the room cold already. then by next summer i can move em downstairs and just use a 4x8 area. i really like the flexibilty of lining em up or using em individually in a closet. you're the man once again. see i have looked at these but i was skeptical. all i have is my bors mars hydros and i never use em. i tried his nugs and they were not tasty lol, prolly not the light tho

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Schwaggy P said:

You're very welcome. The 288 v2 refers to the individual board itself and not necessarily the entire lighting unit. So for instance, the 260W kit can come with 2 - 288 v2 boards or 2 - 304 boards with a driver that puts out 260W.
View attachment 4277200
https://growerslights.com/collections/horticulture-lighting-group-quantum-board-led-kits/products/horticulture-lighting-group-260-watt-quantum-board-led-kit?variant=8194398126181

So, if you were to get 2 - single 288 v2 board kits, then they would only be about 135W-160W per lighting unit. I hope this isn't too confusing, I'm glad to help if you have any more questions.

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outliergenetix said:

i was looking at the double i saw that it was two. i watched migro do a video on the single board. i also saw the 260w v1 not much diff 10% for only $275 kit. i think i may get these before summer, at least 2 x 260w kits. i can see how that goes. i like i can use my closet in the meantime. i won't feel as rushed

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coreywebster said:

Amazing thread dude! Well done!

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outliergenetix said:

thanks allot this is what i needed to hear. i am now thinking of getting 2 of the 288 v2 i just saw basically same thing you have. using my 3x4 closet i am in till i can get 2 more then just doing a 4x8 canopy downstairs later, after i have 4 total QB's. much more conservative and i can keep that closet cold in the meantime because i live in that and 1 other room basically lol, so i keep the room cold already. then by next summer i can move em downstairs and just use a 4x8 area. i really like the flexibilty of lining em up or using em individually in a closet. you're the man once again. see i have looked at these but i was skeptical. all i have is my bors mars hydros and i never use em. i tried his nugs and they were not tasty lol, prolly not the light tho

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Spondylo Grow said:

I am with Schwaggy P on the quantum boards subject. I just finished a run with this small, diy light that I pieced together recently. 2 qb324's with heat sinks from HLG mounted on aluminum L channel . The driver is from Digikey. And then just wire, plug and connectors. This did very well in a 3x3 flowering tent for me. Heat was not much of a factor and the tent stayed only slightly above the room temperature. My plants were growing into the boards (not on purpose), but they still thrived with very little stress. Averaged around 1.4gpw on the first run with this light.

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