Seed Breeders and lack of descriptions..... especially for outdoor

Rivendell said:

There seems to be a big hole in the seed game in general, Nobody is really making outdoor seeds anymore. Sure there are a few strains here and there, but I am not aware of anyone that is focused on it and widely available. If its not some chem/cookie/og mash up that looks pretty on IG, no one has the time for it anymore it seems. Odd overlooked section of the home growers seed market as more and more people can grow in their backyards, just waiting for someone to corner the market.

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Completely agree!

Funkentelechy said:

I feel your pain as far as descriptions are concerned, growing outdoors legally I only get six mature plants a year. I would love more descriptions, especially considering how much seeds cost. Although to be fair, I can understand how potentially problematic it would be to list things like finishing times. Everyone's individual experiences will vary based on phenotypes and growing conditions and unfortunately, invariably people get butthurt if their plants don't finish when the description said they should.
But, some description of the general range of phenotypical expression would be super helpful. I've curious about Coastal Seed Co, but with $150-$200 a pack and zero description, I just can't take the chance at that price point.

I don't think it is as big of a deal to indoor growers, because you can get any strain to finish indoors, and indoor growers can do so many cycles in a year that they can take more chances.

I have never grown anything from them(yet) but Dynasty genetics has great descriptions.

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Agree! I would never hold a breeder to a specific timeline, although close would be nice. I think if they gave info such as whether it was even tested outdoor would be nice. They could always do like everyone else when advertising.... 'some results may vary'
If I am paying $10 per seed or more I would like to know a little about the expectations!

hotrodharley said:

I veg outdoors. Plants get huge with constant light. A unique problem the further north you go. Daylight hours are longer but freeze comes much sooner.

I get clones all summer, topping and supercropping. Anything I can’t fit in the tents by the first of October go to others to finish.

64 N

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This seems like a great way to work with your environment for the best results! You sure do have tough growing conditions!

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The Jeneral said:

Thank you for working on preservation! So needed, especially right now when the industry is almost in a fury to grow and expand. I did deal with the frost and freezing last year as some of my strains did not finish until Nov ( even the ones that said Sept). I did cover them, but it was not enough. My garden was not set up for a hoop type situation, so my plants were all 8ft apart on center. My idea was to cover each row with its own hoop, but the plants were too big and it just didn't cover well. We finished ok, but I really need to do better this year. I have built my own hoop houses in the past and will be reconfiguring it this year so I can fully cover all the plants. Finishing earlier just seems like a way better option..lol

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The guys with greenhouses or decent hoop houses do better get autos to complete. Don’t know anymore finishing photos naturally here outdoors. One guy is claiming on a seed site in Denmark he’d run Pieburt outside here and it finished.

The Jeneral said:

Completely agree!

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Just finding a strain that works is not good enough,You have to pheno hunt the strain to find what works great for you. been growing outdoor in Maine for Decades.

The Jeneral said:

I live in Michigan, US. USDA zone 6. I am an outdoor only grower. I have been enjoying this herb for over 30 years, but only growing for 4. Please help me understand why some (or many) seed breeders do not include descriptions on their strains. For the life of me I cannot understand why the breeder would not want customers to know about their product. Especially when they are charging an average of $10+ per seed. As an outdoor grower I have had so much trouble just trying to figure out what I can grow outside successfully, in my area. I have spent so much time researching without much forward gain. I have even emailed breeders to ask about strains they have bred and either don't get an answer or I get a list of links to forums with pages and pages of unrelated info. Do they not know anything about the strains they are breeding?? Why would they not offer descriptions? Would that not save time from people asking these questions? Are they just too busy? Do they mostly breed indoor?
I would love to know which breeders actually grow outdoor, potent strains for sale in US and either give good descriptions or are at least willing to answer questions about their products.
Humboldt Seed Company has good info. I am trying some All Gas OG this year.
Twenty20 Mendocino has excellent info. I am trying several from them this year.
I love the Bodhi strains I have grown so far....but again, just so hard to find info on the strains.
I have heard good things about Oregon Green Seed, but have not tried them yet.

Thank you in advance!!

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Probably because they are growing everything indoor on nutes, or simply don’t have the variance in growing locations to definitively say, would be my guess. I would err on the side of not hyping too-much without evidence, as well, if I were selling my wares.
I find it frustrating, too, though.

Perhaps track down landrace or hybrids of such that evolved in a similar climate?

Also, a lot of people hate on autos but it seems the integration of ruderalis and the breeding done for potency/yield is going to create more highly-adaptable quality strains.

Funkentelechy said:

I feel your pain as far as descriptions are concerned, growing outdoors legally I only get six mature plants a year.

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If you are in California, getting your medical is as easy as a 5-minute phone call.
And no condition is bs- what’s bs is any “authority” telling you what defines medicinal relief.
Anyhoo! I woke up one day, looked up how to get my medical and before my coffe had even kicked in I was able to start growing up to 24 plants.
Seems like a lot, but after keeping with just 6 the year before I realized how much you may lose to mold, herm, etc., and just how quickly it goes.

ACE Seeds has excellent detail on their webpage including lab results for many of their strains. But they are more sativa focused so they don't have many offerings that would work where you're at. Great genetics for growing indoors if you can wait 12 - 16 weeks for some sativa fire. But not going to work at zone 6 outdoors.

The Jeneral said:

Thank you for the breeder names! I will definitely check them out. Just trying to weed out which breeders I should be focused on. Too many coming out of the woodwork now to even keep up.
I am a little bummed on the chemdog though. I have some Schwaggy Skunky VA I was going to run this year.. Chem91skva x skunky brewster... But, there is nothing worse than mold! Ugh....

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I've run a bunch of chem crosses over the years. It tends to produce really chunky, greasy colas that have a tough time finishing where I live. It still worth growing a few, never know you might find a really early finishing one you like.

I have also had some good luck with Karma genetics outdoor. Headbanger had a long flower time but handled humidity really well

waterproof808 said:

Its best to choose breeders that breed outdoors...few guys I can think of off the top of my head are Mean Gene aka Freeborn Selections, 707seedbank, Ganja Rebel.

707's new kush cleaner line is priced around $50...I just picked up his candyland x kush cleaner that he says has a 6-8 week finish time.

Other than that, alot of it is trial and error. When you find stuff that does well in your area, look for breeders using similar genetics or just start making your own seeds, which is probably the best route in the long run. From personal experience, skip anything with chem dog in it...I've always found it to be mold prone. Og's can do alright, some cookie crosses I have run do surprisingly well also.

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u pop that candyland kush cleaner ?

Almost all breeders are lazy chuckers / savvy businessmen who haven't run the gear they are selling. At best, they or a tester ran a cross once just to make sure it doesn't express intersex flowers too readily. The market moves too fast to spend a lot of time testing your gear. The banks are buying the gear without pictures and descriptions anyway so why bother? Bad Dog Jeff of GLG has tried to get breeders to provide real descriptions and pics and they just aren't interested, other banks will buy the gear if he doesn't want it.

Ultimately, if growers keep buying gear on nothing more than a strain name, usually made up on the name/traits of the parents, then breeders won't bother working any harder than they have to.

I think most of these chuckers are going to go out of business anyway as legalization spreads and growers have better access to clones of the genetics they want.

Observe & Report said:

Almost all breeders are lazy chuckers / savvy businessmen who haven't run the gear they are selling. At best, they or a tester ran a cross once just to make sure it doesn't express intersex flowers too readily. The market moves too fast to spend a lot of time testing your gear. The banks are buying the gear without pictures and descriptions anyway so why bother? Bad Dog Jeff of GLG has tried to get breeders to provide real descriptions and pics and they just aren't interested, other banks will buy the gear if he doesn't want it.

Ultimately, if growers keep buying gear on nothing more than a strain name, usually made up on the name/traits of the parents, then breeders won't bother working any harder than they have to.

I think most of these chuckers are going to go out of business anyway as legalization spreads and growers have better access to clones of the genetics they want.

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More and more people these days also seem to be interested in making their own seeds. You can only charge so much before people start to say "No way". Some of the prices people pay for seeds is just ridiculous. Especially since so many are just a pollen chuck anyone could do. It seems some think these guys are growing out thousands of plants to find the perfect pheno. Years ago some of the old names were doing some actual breeding. Nowadays most of these outfits are just seed factories.

I just finished a run of feminized seeds. I grew one Night Nurse seed, took 2 clones, reversed one, pollinated the other. This is the result from just a small portion of the finished plant. I'll pick the rest out as I smoke the weed. As more and more people realize how easy it is to turn one seed into hundreds they'll start doing it as well.

I have a handful of girls gonna go into 2 x 2 as soon as next week with an AK 47 male. Just chuckin for now. My next big move will be learning to stabilize a few of my crosses. I am asking for help when I begin that journey, for sure...

Rivendell said:

There seems to be a big hole in the seed game in general, Nobody is really making outdoor seeds anymore. Sure there are a few strains here and there, but I am not aware of anyone that is focused on it and widely available. If its not some chem/cookie/og mash up that looks pretty on IG, no one has the time for it anymore it seems. Odd overlooked section of the home growers seed market as more and more people can grow in their backyards, just waiting for someone to corner the market.

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Oregon Green Seeds specifically breeds for outdoors and for the Pacific NW. Had great luck with a now unavailable strain by them last year, outdoors in Oklahoma. Go to their site! They have great info and great genetics!

Here's a link you might try growerschoiceseeds.com they give a good description of the seeds they sell. Strain description, details, reviews and ratings. I ordered from them and to be honest it took about 10 days to get the seeds and they offer a coupon for like 15% off a future purchase. They also give the germination guarantee. I haven't germinated my seeds yet cause I got 4 clones from a different source in Eastpoint so check them out and go from there.

MAGpie81 said:

If you are in California, getting your medical is as easy as a 5-minute phone call.
And no condition is bs- what’s bs is any “authority” telling you what defines medicinal relief.
Anyhoo! I woke up one day, looked up how to get my medical and before my coffe had even kicked in I was able to start growing up to 24 plants.
Seems like a lot, but after keeping with just 6 the year before I realized how much you may lose to mold, herm, etc., and just how quickly it goes.

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What county is this in? In mine it doesn't matter if you are rec or med, its only 6 plants per residence. Also a ban on outdoor growing.

Dr. Greenthumb seeds and some of the breeders / pollen chuckers at Hemp Depot seeds have possibilities for September or early October finishes in northern latitudes. Both Greenthumb and many of the seed suppliers at Hemp Depot have been around a long time.

Some people have issues with Greenthumb's customer service and yield claims, but his stock has been used by Oregon Green to make a couple of her selections. If you take the time to mix Greenthumbs Iranian Auto into crosses, you can make your own quicker finishing stuff.

Delicious seeds has some fast versions of many of their outdoor selections. (never grew any of them). I can vouch for the "non fast" Eleven Roses outdoors, although last year mine finished in October rather than September in Maine. Decent structure and the smoke was good. Golosa wasn't something I'd grow again. Critical Star was okay. maybe even good.

Shout out to Getaway Mountain seeds too. He's got some that finish quick.

Bottom line as some have mentioned, it pays to chuck some pollen. A greenhouse, even a tiny one, can be helpful. Stick a few clones in smallish containers and use those naughty girls as your pollen dumpsters. Easy to move if they take awhile to finish and you can even hit some girls with multiple pollen loads from several daddies for some contrast to select through. If you really want to get freaky, reverse some girls and make some fem seeds. Again, one female can receive pollen from several donors, whether male or reversed female pollen or even both. Just make sure to mark down who did who and make sure to clean up when you're done.

Herb & Suds said:

It would be like asking you the exact weather conditions you'll be growing in
It can't be done
Breeders take educated guesses always with the end goal of selling gear
$10 for a seed that could yield pounds is cheap
Edit:
Maybe a greenhouse is in order ...my solution was to move indoors

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If you have a less ideal cannabis microclimate,
Consider constructing a simple pvc hoop house to protect you plants in October .

rebar pounded in ground , 1” pvc hooped on rebar .. cover with plastic and just use “clamps” to secure the plastic to the pvc ..
Keep it simple and you can setup and take down to reuse. Will keep the frost off your plants and you can put a 30 gallon trash can filled with water to increase thermal mass inside the hoop house .

for strains
cookies crosses
green crack
Skunk crosses
Mendo purp /GDP crosses
usually can finish quickly in early October.

avoid
Sour D And most “exotic” strains they seem to alway want to go longer..

and look at AKBB ( AK bean brains ) seeds he breeds old school 80s /90s staple genetics. These are usually more indica dominant IMO and should be stout and reliable genetics for outs. Maybe not a frosty and colorful as modern hybrids but very stable and should provide homegrowers with a stain they can finish and yield decent with.

move also had good harvests with MTG ( money tree genetics ) they are not wildly popular but they do breed for outdoor and provide decent descriptions of what you can expect.

I am an outdoor grower too, so I feel; your pain, hard.
However en.seedfinder.eu is your friend. you can find your classification of your climate through this site, and from there find all seeds recommended for that area, they have as much information that is available about growing, and effects of the plant, even including their lineage when known.

They pull in data seemingly from all known breeders.