Seed Making made easy - Selfing a plant

420_Graze_It said:

I've only spent time on it twice and it produced seeds nearly identical to the clone. Since it takes so long my reason was to preserve genetics and lower plant count for legal reasons. They are in a freezer until I need some (about 300 seeds). I pop 2 or 3 each year to check germination rates.

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Cubing? Also how important is your chosen male for the first initial cross? Do you think it's all that majorly important since your going to basically backcross it out and only a small percentage will be left?

420_Graze_It said:

For anyone looking to "preserve" genetics using this method, just know that there is no guarantee a selfed plant will produce seeds 100% the same as it's parent. You will see a lot of dominant traits come out in its offspring and those hard to obtain recessive traits that people breed for will often go away (i.e. super high THC%, node spacing, fast flowering period and sometimes even yield).

To guarantee same traits as the parent, you will often need to back cross (BX) at least 4-6 times. This makes preserving genetics around a 1 year project if you include time to pop seeds. It's easier to just keep clones of your favorite strains indefinitely, unless you are a commercial breeder doing it for profit.

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Hmm ok, that's what I was afraid of. The reason I asked about the genetics/mutations/traits thing in the first place is because I wanted to do this with a 30:1 CBD:THC plant. From what I was able to find: 1) CBD is a recessive trait 2) Even low thc strains seem to suffer from occasional higher-than-expected thc production and 3) I don't really want high THC - I would have to abandon my dream of easily producing hundreds of CBD seeds that would normally be 10 bucks a pop for now and will instead go with photo + infinite clones method instead. Oh well

boybelue said:

Cubing? Also how important is your chosen male for the first initial cross? Do you think it's all that majorly important since your going to basically backcross it out and only a small percentage will be left?

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Essentially. It really depends on the parent mother plant you want to reverse. Some have extremely recessive traits and remember you will never get 100% of seeds with similar traits to the mother, it depends on how many homozygous-recessives you are after as well as the number of alleles donated by each parent. If you want to go down that rabbit hole I highly recommend reading up on Chimera's breeding practices.

Cheers

420_Graze_It said:

Essentially. It really depends on the parent mother plant you want to reverse. Some have extremely recessive traits and remember you will never get 100% of seeds with similar traits to the mother, it depends on how many homozygous-recessives you are after as well as the number of alleles donated by each parent. If you want to go down that rabbit hole I highly recommend reading up on Chimera's breeding practices.

Cheers

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Well I wouldn't be reversing, just cubing a female. I've chosen two different males so I can go two different ways and hopefully if I get what I'm after and then cross these two lines to add vigor back. I guess my question would be the same scenario that mr soul had when choosing a male for the cindy project or JJ had when he choose his male. Eventually you get to a point with so many backcrosses that you only have a small percent of that males genetics left in the mix, just a few percent. At that point it seems that initial male selection wouldnt have any bearing on the outcome.

boybelue said:

Well I wouldn't be reversing, just cubing a female. I've chosen two different males so I can go two different ways and hopefully if I get what I'm after and then cross these two lines to add vigor back. I guess my question would be the same scenario that mr soul had when choosing a male for the cindy project or JJ had when he choose his male. Eventually you get to a point with so many backcrosses that you only have a small percent of that males genetics left in the mix, just a few percent. At that point it seems that initial male selection wouldnt have any bearing on the outcome.

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Yep. I'm not after the male traits in my breeding so it didnt matter much to me. You can use CS and grab pollen from the fem clone too.

420_Graze_It said:

Yep. I'm not after the male traits in my breeding so it didnt matter much to me. You can use CS and grab pollen from the fem clone too.

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True, and I do like to self mine also for preservation. I just wanted reg seed also because it seems the fems are missing something and I only noticed it outdoors. They just dont seem as strong, resilient, as regs, like that male adds something that's missing in the fems. Now inside in a perfect environment it really wasnt noticable and I really need more time with them to say for sure but so far imo in an outdoor environment in the elements they're just missing something. I wanna say it seemed they were more prone to bud rot, but like I said I really need to see more grown out to be certain.

Knock up day :

Fem nuts have been collected and dried a bit to allow dumping ..... the rest are going to further crossing.

BEFORE :

KKP ( reg )

I am using a simple makeup brush “ borrowed “ ... although I prefer a fine tip one ( those were already caked in lady war paint )
Qtips will work as well.


Pollen Pods were already to dump and use .... with others getting close to dump.



AFTER :



I left this plant side lined out of tent 24 hours ... then lightly misted with water to stem any excess pollen floating about.

The left over pods will be continued dried over a mesh screen and collection Pyrex bowl . Pollen will then be collected and stored in a small plastic flip top container ( the kind you get from seed banks ) .

This is my next endeavor in my cultivation life. I have a superb La Chocolate cut that I have been running for three years in perpetual harvest setups, really want to have some S1 seedstock of similar makeup.
I really dig your style Budzbuddha. We're sorta cut from the same cloth I gather....
I've been inspired to move forward with this.
There is a seller on eBay in Oregon (I believe) that ships pre mixed bottles of STS solution, might just have to take a stab with that option...
I'm certainly capable of making my own CS or STS, alas this brainchild has eluded inception thus far.
I'm doin it man. I'm doin it.

Seeded bud - early

Plan on letting her go at least 6 weeks or so .
Flower is adding some weight .... pistils coloring.

Them damn seeds are growing hella fast

Nice job Budz...

I too have made a point of crossing most of my autos as well as selfing those I've found most desireable...
Actually, my hobby has gotten a bit out if hand as I-have about 20 different vials of dried pollen mixed with baking flour as a dessicant..

That said..Ive made a boat load of S1's from most of my purchased strains..

The key to selfing autos, at least in my experience..is to start spraying the collodial silver before the plant goes into flower...as those lady balls often take about 3 weeks to appear...that way, the pollen is produced ASAP and you are going to have the most available pistils to pollenate as opposed to many of them already having matured and turning brown...

Keep up the good work..good thread!

MrToad

Actually I should gave that plant a proper veg ( a bit anyways ) so it could branch out a little instead of the 12/12 I started it at .
Normally with autos I begin ( solo grow ) around the 3 week of grow as to catch it before presex but this a “ reg “ . And of course it needs a good few weeks before becoming sexually mature. That first pic was an auto so in a solo it worked fine .... seedit out , harvest beans and toss it.

So this plant is like a straight vertical stalk with budsites close to node instead of a grown branch. It worked however , I still decided to
continue on with the project. It happily threw nuts and pollen but it has a apical bud top that is hosting most of the seed pods . Traveling down the next set of nodes more seed pods are forming. So all is not lost.

Although I prefer doing this with autos , the one set I planned to use for this never germed so had to go with plan B.

Once this plant goes on and on .... I will start another AUTO in a solo as planned and keep with thread.

Thanks Toad

Loving this thread @Budzbuddha
I've bit the bullet and got some CS and currently have an auto at 17 days under a couple of CFL's , but it is as squat as hell, virtually no internodal spacing. I would struggle to spray selected nodes but I was hoping to keep at least 1 unchanged in the hope of getting a few seeds as well from the plant.
I was probably going to start around the 3rd week mark and reading your post above that seems to be about right, but I have a question. The CS bottle I bought also came with a 50ml spray and a 50ml dropper. Would the dropper be a better option or would it be too concentrated a dosage in a small area?

I usually just bend her over slightly and mist the nodes . I never used a dropper but hell why not ?

Budzbuddha said:

I usually just bend her over slightly and mist the nodes . I never used a dropper but hell why not ?

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I will see if she grows a bit over the next few days, but I will probably give the dropper a try if misting is looking too awkward to be accurate... worst case scenario is it doesn't work, best case is we all get to learn from my mistake!

Pic update ... couple of weeks later

Bud is chunking up and seed pods are very noticeable, plant got a myco water feed and is under 400watts of quantum and pure par ( Agromax bulbs ) with some other girls .

will update again around new year

Great freaking thread & info!
I’m actually in the early stage of creating seeds of one of my favorite strains, Guptilla (Gupta Kush x Gorilla Glue #4), but was planning on using 2 plants...I’ve never heard of the concept of selfing, but I’m gonna try it out with one of my females. I’ve got 4 plants ready to flip. I’m hoping to get at least 2 females then I will try selfing with one of them.
Thanks for the great info!

It took a long while, but it looks like I managed to get it to work! I've never seen these before in real life so hoping they are intended for nanners. It threw me a bit due to them being purple on the outer part. These are on the outer part of the branches I sprayed, there are also some smaller green clusters of the same thing closer to the centre of the plant that look a lot less developed, but I struggled to get pics of them, as the plant is really compact.

Started to spray an auto with bought CS at about 2.5 weeks old, sprayed twice a day for about 3 weeks and didn't see anything happening apart from the plant being severely stunted in a 2 litre pot, so stopped spraying. Left her in the cabinet as she wasn't taking up any room, and saw these yesterday, at about the 7 week mark. They may have been there a few days, as I admittedly didn't check her thoroughly every day.

I haven't read up on this for a few weeks, as I thought I had failed, so can anyone tell me roughly how long to leave them on the plant before they need to be removed for storage/dusting other plants. I now have some card under her so if any pollen drops it will be caught, and she is in with the plants I wanted to seed, so if any pollen escapes (or already has) it isn't a problem. I don't want to remove them too early so I would rather ask.

As usual, when I try and take a close up on my phone I focus on everything BUT the thing I want to focus on. I really ought to have worn my glasses!

Week 6 since pollinating.

Jan 28 .... BEAN DAY

Took this bitch down and dried it out a few day ago to help free up the beans .... well ended up with a shitload from that 12/12 grown single plant. These S1 seeds will be grown and one or two will be grown to self S2 . But for now i have way more than I probably needed.

At least i have these since KKP online is out of stock.



This is what KKP looks like grown to harvest . I plan taking this down in a week ... purps , heavy sweet gas , dense .



I plan to keep thread alive with some up coming girls .