Set my ass straight

I am reaching out because I do not know nearly what I thought I knew. I run five gallon buckets, two stones in each and all water is ro @0ppm. I check levels at around 8 pm. Usually little adjustments in ph. +\- .2. I have recently added beneficials and have seen great results in roots. It is fox's microbe brew and hygrozyme. I put 2 tsp of brew in and it brings it up to 50 ppm. From there I add my food for my little guy I did 140 ppm of gen hydro flora cutting formula. My ppm is at 190. I'm scared to add the hygrozyme because I get mixed reports on dosage. Do not exceed 15 ml per gallon. This shit is expensive and adding a max of 60 ml would burn through a big bottle instantly. The little one has had it rough. Is 190 total ppm too high for a cutting going into a bucket? Then on the bigger ones, I just don't know what ppm to run safely, they are both at transition feeding at 300 ppm with some old growth burn. Let me know what your thoughts are. I have a soil grow which has been effortless, but yield isn't there. My main concern is potency though and I think I've been shooting myself in the foot in the past by over fertilizing. Thanks in advance.

Woops on pics, not sure, just tilt your head

my babies are in a 170 ppm 20 gallon dwc rez (Note: the damaged leaves are from the cloning prosess, See the top lovely green leaves those are less then 4 days old)

I think u will be OK i was thinking of bumping mine up 2 300-500ppm range (Floria Series)

sfrjosh said:

my babies are in a 170 ppm 20 gallon dwc rez (Note: the damaged leaves are from the cloning prosess, See the top lovely green leaves those are less then 4 days old)
View attachment 2489156View attachment 2489158
I think u will be OK i was thinking of bumping mine up 2 300-500ppm range (Floria Series)

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What is your substrate? Gravel? I'm just wondering if my cloning process is the culprit. My. Babies are just not right. I built an aero cloner but within the last 3 mos, I can't get shit to root. Changed spray heads. Maybe some clr. I'm trying plugs now so well see

Yea that is called grow stone its made from recycled glass and hold shit ton of water lol.
here is a pic of my aero-cloner.
this was my 2nd attempt at a cloner. my first attempt same concept but in a 5 gallon bucket

Please not that they look strong but they went 6-8hr with the pump off over night y they look kinda bad. Im still new
( FIRST ATTEMPT)
Cut from mother at 45 angle and split the stem 1/4-1/2 inch of the bottom,Clone gel then set in cloner
But my first one i got 2-3 inch roots in 9 day
2.5 gallon ph 5.8 with 1tsp of rapid start
after 5 days i swapped out the nutis the water didnt smell good and it was bc i didnt check the ph after i made it (Noob mistake)
(2nd Attempt)
Cut from mother 45 angle, scraped the bottom of stems but too much...... and also sliced up center, Clone gel then set in cloner
5 gallon ph 5.8 2tsp of rapid start
after 9 days nothing no roots ( I think bc i scraped them to much and i silicone my net pots in place wait 15 min for it to be waterproof ( not 100% dry)
about 10-11 days i started to see roots sticking out.. very small

WHAT Are you doing for ur aero cloner and can i get pictures. also not ive made some big mistakes and im doing ok.
They are not the best clones but they work. my frist attempt i had to ween them back to live look at this

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/614154-dwc-queistion-experts-help-me.html
let me know if im helping
-sfrjoh

sfrjosh said:

Yea that is called grow stone its made from recycled glass and hold shit ton of water lol.
here is a pic of my aero-cloner.
this was my 2nd attempt at a cloner. my first attempt same concept but in a 5 gallon bucket
View attachment 2489550View attachment 2489551
Please not that they look strong but they went 6-8hr with the pump off over night y they look kinda bad. Im still new
( FIRST ATTEMPT)
Cut from mother at 45 angle and split the stem 1/4-1/2 inch of the bottom,Clone gel then set in cloner
But my first one i got 2-3 inch roots in 9 day
2.5 gallon ph 5.8 with 1tsp of rapid start
after 5 days i swapped out the nutis the water didnt smell good and it was bc i didnt check the ph after i made it (Noob mistake)
(2nd Attempt)
Cut from mother 45 angle, scraped the bottom of stems but too much...... and also sliced up center, Clone gel then set in cloner
5 gallon ph 5.8 2tsp of rapid start
after 9 days nothing no roots ( I think bc i scraped them to much and i silicone my net pots in place wait 15 min for it to be waterproof ( not 100% dry)
about 10-11 days i started to see roots sticking out.. very small

WHAT Are you doing for ur aero cloner and can i get pictures. also not ive made some big mistakes and im doing ok.
They are not the best clones but they work. my frist attempt i had to ween them back to live look at this

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/614154-dwc-queistion-experts-help-me.html
let me know if im helping
-sfrjoh

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big help! Suggestion on cloning. Coming from a hort background, we always took cuttings under water. It prevents an air bubble. My prob I think is unhealthy clones. Switched to soil plugs tonight. Getting sick of 4 bubble buckets every night for the last 2 years. I may run one hydro and three soil.

And are you flushing the N from mommy first? Where you take the cutting from can make dif, too. I've determined thru trial and error, that some breeds can be very difficult to clone.

Spliffer1 said:

And are you flushing the N from mommy first? Where you take the cutting from can make dif, too. I've determined thru trial and error, that some breeds can be very difficult to clone.

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Flush the mother plant of nitrogen before taking a cutting? It's getting weird and senseless, not to mention impossible, when people talk about taking cuttings under water and flushing for a bunch of reasons.

Well, while I must respect your opinion, I suggest getting caught up on available info before going too far. I started playing with this shit back in the 70's using willow water, and thru a LOT of trial and error, and by RESEARCH, I've learned a few things about cloning! (Certainly a lot I have yet to learn!)
It is proven fact that clones need very little to nearly NO nitrogen, but light phosphorus, high carbs and rooting hormones are what it takes to form roots. The ONLY way to obtain this is by leaching, flushing and reverse foliar flushing for 3-4 days PRIOR to taking the cutting- and taken from lower parts of the plant, because that is where carb content and rooting hormones are highest. The higher you go up the plant, the less likely that you will succeed. Not saying you can't, just sayin' your odds are better.

After looking closer at the pics, that's nute burn- looks primarily Nitrogen (in my opinion). If the mother is treated right, and the cuttings are taken from the proper location(s), the carb buildup will be high enough to sustain the little one plenty long enough to devlope a small root system. Personally, I don't like rapid start. I've used it only a few times, with the same bad result- burned my shit up- clones and seedlings. I think it's a little way too hot. I go staright to my bubble bucket with it, keeping my ppm's well below starting level until she gets some good roots and starts to take off, then turn up the heat.
And I've had better results with Superthrive. They love the vitamins! (use sparingly)
Rapid-Start stank like dead fish in my house, too- no can do. lol

What kind of lighting are you using, and how far in proximity from your plant?

On the little retarded one, there is a 400 mh, babies under 8 t5's bloom 600 hps.. I started a thread in aeroponics to try to see about my setup. My problem may be cleanliness. I have never washed anything with anything other than soap. It may have caught up to me in my cloner. I have no slime or anything weird smelling going on. I really think I should dump the suffering clone, no real chance at being a star. If I wait a week or two, ill put up two pogk's and document there path. I need to find the source of my problems and at what stage!

Spliffer1 said:

Well, while I must respect your opinion, I suggest getting caught up on available info before going too far. I started playing with this shit back in the 70's using willow water, and thru a LOT of trial and error, and by RESEARCH, I've learned a few things about cloning! (Certainly a lot I have yet to learn!)
It is proven fact that clones need very little to nearly NO nitrogen, but light phosphorus, high carbs and rooting hormones are what it takes to form roots. The ONLY way to obtain this is by leaching, flushing and reverse foliar flushing for 3-4 days PRIOR to taking the cutting- and taken from lower parts of the plant, because that is where carb content and rooting hormones are highest. The higher you go up the plant, the less likely that you will succeed. Not saying you can't, just sayin' your odds are better.

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Clones need virtually no nitrogen. My point, again, is what idiot thinks they can flush the mother plant of nitrogen? And why would you?

Let me edit this by saying I know you can put straight RO water in with the only nitrogen being dissolved atmospheric nitrogen. So what do you put in the water to draw the nitrogen out of the tissue and what is the result?

Mr. Ganja,
I'll resume after saying I have a great deal of respect for you and your experience. You have, directly and indirectly, helped me with a number of issues and I've seen you help a lot of others. I don't mean any of this to be mistaken for disrespect.
Shall we resume?
And again- after you have your cutting- what the fuck do you think it CAN do with ANY Nitrogen? It CAN'T use it. Really high residual N can quickly become an overdose. Remember what happens with an overdose? When the cut is made, veg growth IMMEDIATELY stops, and hormones say "oh shit, we have to find water". If there is a high N and low carboydrate content, they WILL, BACKED BY SCIENTIFIC DATA, (a) take longer to root, (b) can produce very weak roots and plants (c) possibly burn up within a couple days (d) just not root at all.
They survive off of the stored carbohydrates much like the seedling lived off it's cotyledons during infancy, while the hormones work to establish a source for water-roots. It's dietary needs shift to more phosphorus use, while needing VERY LITTLE NITROGEN. Apologies for fuckin' you up when I stated " nearly NO nitrogen", to me that translates to "very little nitrogen".
It's not even an arguable subject.
When you flush the mother for a couple of days (in hydro, it only takes 1 day) is no different than flushing a plant before harvest (or do we want to argue that one, too). I don't know that it will actually "draw" anything from the plant, but allows it to metabolize the N that is already in flux. Yes, the mother could have a little bit of lightening of the lower fan leaves, this is NORMAL, and means you're doing it right. After the cut's been made, feed the mother and keep her healthy for the next ones. People ask "won't that stunt growth?" No, though it may slow it's growth ever so slightly, if done properly won't make a noticeable difference. "Will it stress my plant?" No, your plant can very easily hold it's own for a bit on it's stored carbs before it goes into panic and starts stressing - IF SHE'S HEALTHY TO BEGIN WITH!
I agree- there are those who believe that it makes no difference if you flush before harvest. Still, the data doesn't lie.
If you know anything about what you're doing, you know that some breeds are very easy to clone, while other's can be very difficult. Try and clone (NOT using a developed or self-sustained cloning chamber) a sativa dominant F1 or purebreed, taken from a mother that has been fed up until that moment. In fact, take it from an adult female- one that has vegged to her near full potential, and take the cutting from the top or very upper portion of the plant. I'll wager that 1 out of 4 might make it. I can get 100%- usually, not always. With advancements in cloning chambers, I would GUESS that they're pretty nice, and obviously easier. I'm guessing you use one?
If a guy is serious about what he's doing, he'd use one of the best he could afford. However, if he is actually that serious about his grow, he'd learn as much as he could about the process and what/how that takes place, before buying one.
Those serious days are behind me now, but I keep a fresh stash for myself and a couple friends year round. I still use a red solo cup, plastic bag, and a cfl light to clone with. I haven't used willow water in a long time, I graduated to cloning jel, but it still works.
Then again, if your method's working for you- don't change it. Consistency is paramount. But if you get a finicky one that gives you a hard way to go, it's a good time to learn more about the entire process- there's a little more to it than just cutting a piece and sticking it in the chamber. Especially if you don't own/need a chamber!

I don't remember ever saying to flush before cuttings? Cuttings need no nutrients. I know this because I've had bangin clones that get huge and healthy on ro. I'm confused as to the argument.

I apologize deeply to all for the confusion, Mr. G- doubly so, as I just realized I was totaly responding to the wrong person-the other dipshit who posted his pics on your thread.
My bad, I was stoned and my train derailed, while I wandered off.
This shit's pretty good!

Spliffer1 said:

I apologize deeply to all for the confusion, Mr. G- doubly so, as I just realized I was totaly responding to the wrong person-the other dipshit who posted his pics on your thread.
My bad, I was stoned and my train derailed, while I wandered off.
This shit's pretty good!

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fair enough! Just blazed some mendo, that's all the strain info my friend had. Very uplifting!