Sever dying/loss of leaves and stunted growth in flowering

N

natureschild

New Member
I have somewhat new and large scale grow that has gotten pretty damn sour since it started, about 6 months ago.

A brief recap: between my partner and I we have 20 years of growing experience. Neither of us have ever encountered a problems like this and we need help bad. Things seem to get worse everyday.

Current grow is 20K watt flower room and 2K watt veg running hydro with rockwool. Both rooms kept at 80 degrees, 1100ppm CO2, and 50% humidity. This is the first time either of us have used rockwool, we have always used coco.

CNS 17 is used in Grow, Bloom, and Ripe. 20 mL/gallon of Grow in veg, 18 - 25 mL/gallon of Bloom in weeks 1 - 5, 25 mL/G of Ripe in 6 -7, flush week 8.

All through vegging all of the plants look great. Our first harvest, we had a root aphid problem when we first started but we eradicated them with a combination of chemical attacks. No root aphids spotted in over 2 months, I check thoroughly.

We had a spider mite outbreak and have beat them back significantly, still working on total eradication. Spider mites don't seem to be the cause of the issues we're having with the plants.

Our problems begin when we move the plants from veg into flower. Our first run we had some sour D that was growing 3" a day. Our second run has seen very minimal to no growth starting day 1 of flower. We are 4 weeks into flower and the plants seem to get worse. It starts with yellowing of fan leaves from bottom to middle of plant. By week 2 it is very noticeable. Now at week 4, the bottom half of the plant is pretty much dead. Starting to see the top do the same.

Spent last 2 days flushing all plants, thinking maybe CNS 17 dose is too strong and plants are on nute lockout? Somebody else came in and said we might have broad mites, but if I'm not sure if those could cause the plants stunted growth like we're experiencing? Could it be related to the rockwool, which has a significant amount of algae on the sides? The roots coming out of the rockwool look yellow and unhappy, not white and fuzzy.

Here's some pics from veg, they look very good for the most part, save for some minor rust spots
20141012_231609.jpeg 20141012_231654.jpeg 20141012_231705.jpeg

Here's the ones 4 weeks into flowering. Some have purple toward the edges, but I feel like the ones that died earlier went from straight green to yellow and died without turning purple.
20141012_231232.jpeg 20141012_224209.jpeg 20141012_224105.jpeg

Leaves taken from flowering
20141012_231424.jpeg 20141012_231435.jpeg 20141012_231502.jpeg 20141012_231451.jpeg
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
natureschild said:
I have somewhat new and large scale grow that has gotten pretty damn sour since it started, about 6 months ago.

A brief recap: between my partner and I we have 20 years of growing experience. Neither of us have ever encountered a problems like this and we need help bad. Things seem to get worse everyday.

Current grow is 20K watt flower room and 2K watt veg running hydro with rockwool. Both rooms kept at 80 degrees, 1100ppm CO2, and 50% humidity. This is the first time either of us have used rockwool, we have always used coco.

CNS 17 is used in Grow, Bloom, and Ripe. 20 mL/gallon of Grow in veg, 18 - 25 mL/gallon of Bloom in weeks 1 - 5, 25 mL/G of Ripe in 6 -7, flush week 8.

All through vegging all of the plants look great. Our first harvest, we had a root aphid problem when we first started but we eradicated them with a combination of chemical attacks. No root aphids spotted in over 2 months, I check thoroughly.

We had a spider mite outbreak and have beat them back significantly, still working on total eradication. Spider mites don't seem to be the cause of the issues we're having with the plants.

Our problems begin when we move the plants from veg into flower. Our first run we had some sour D that was growing 3" a day. Our second run has seen very minimal to no growth starting day 1 of flower. We are 4 weeks into flower and the plants seem to get worse. It starts with yellowing of fan leaves from bottom to middle of plant. By week 2 it is very noticeable. Now at week 4, the bottom half of the plant is pretty much dead. Starting to see the top do the same.

Spent last 2 days flushing all plants, thinking maybe CNS 17 dose is too strong and plants are on nute lockout? Somebody else came in and said we might have broad mites, but if I'm not sure if those could cause the plants stunted growth like we're experiencing? Could it be related to the rockwool, which has a significant amount of algae on the sides? The roots coming out of the rockwool look yellow and unhappy, not white and fuzzy.

Here's some pics from veg, they look very good for the most part, save for some minor rust spots
View attachment 3272831 View attachment 3272832 View attachment 3272834

Here's the ones 4 weeks into flowering. Some have purple toward the edges, but I feel like the ones that died earlier went from straight green to yellow and died without turning purple.
View attachment 3272839 View attachment 3272840 View attachment 3272841

Leaves taken from flowering
View attachment 3272842 View attachment 3272843 View attachment 3272844 View attachment 3272845
Click to expand...
man i was gunna read that but fuck i am to stoned and gave up 3 lines in 0.o
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
its lacking in somthing maybe mag ,or P or i had some that looked like that ened up being root rot but ill go have a 40 min nap come back read ur post and see if i can help
 
N

natureschild

New Member
I should probably add this also: Plants were receiving 30mL/gallon of Terpinator along with the 25 mL/gallon of CNS17 bloom. I stopped giving them the Terp since I started flushing 3 days ago. When I start feeding them again tomorrow, should I give them the Terpinator or just stick to the CNS17? I'm thinking about just doing the CNS17
 
BustinScales510

BustinScales510

Well-Known Member
If youre doing everything the same way you have before and are having unexplainable problems like stunted growth,deformities or leaves dying off then yeah it could be broad mites,especially if youre in California.

Some of those leaves in the veg pic exhibit the symptoms - crispy,upturned edges. That could also just be windburn. The damage they do can look like other things,and theyre too small to see.

The only way to really know if it is broad mites is to pull off some leaves and thoroughly look at the undersides with a 60x or greater lens.
 
furnz

furnz

Well-Known Member
First 3 pics look like to much N . They have that real dark plastic look and tips curling down. A little heat stressed too maybe.
Others look like they could use some cal mag. Usually N def is evenly yellow over the leaf I've noticed, and cal/mag def starts at the tips and the veins stay green while the surrounding yellows.
 
N

natureschild

New Member
Alright, checked a few random leaves with the 60x and found what appeared to be a broad mite on one. Looked like a little clear egg, I couldn't make out any legs though.

But are broad mites really capable of the mass yellowing and stunted growth I'm experiencing? I had never used Terpinator up until this recent run (the previous run I only used CNS and didn't have any stunted growth). The person who put me on the Terp told me it has no PPM? And that I should use 30 mL/gallon all through the flowering cycle. Is it possible I somehow overloaded the plants by using the Terpinator? I don't really understand how a nutrient can have 0 ppm.

Thanks for the help so far guys, it's all much appreciated.
 
TinTizzy

TinTizzy

Well-Known Member
Looks like some n tox and cal/mag def either from the tox or low ph...taco leaves and small thin new growth is mag..the dying leaves look like calcium and mag lockout from the n tox...you have a bit of overwatering too which can also cause lockout
 
N

natureschild

New Member
Thanks for the help guys. I've lightened the load of the CNS17, brought it down to 17 mL/gallon and that's all they're getting at this point. Hopefully it brings the N down so the other nutes aren't locked out.

In addition, I turned the feeding timer down to avoid the over-watering TinTizzy spoke of.

Also, I got a 100x scope and DID find the broad mites. Treated everything in veg and some others that are in early flowering with AVID, gonna hit again in 3 days and see what we're looking like. Not familiar with broad mites, never even heard of them before.

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress, thanks for the help so far.
 
Holylander

Holylander

Well-Known Member
natureschild said:
Thanks for the help guys. I've lightened the load of the CNS17, brought it down to 17 mL/gallon and that's all they're getting at this point. Hopefully it brings the N down so the other nutes aren't locked out.

In addition, I turned the feeding timer down to avoid the over-watering TinTizzy spoke of.

Also, I got a 100x scope and DID find the broad mites. Treated everything in veg and some others that are in early flowering with AVID, gonna hit again in 3 days and see what we're looking like. Not familiar with broad mites, never even heard of them before.

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress, thanks for the help so far.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on what/where you saw? I've been looking for these on one of my plants but all I am getting is a headache. Sometimes I see a round thing on a leaf but it doesn't move and it doesn't look like a disco ball as broad mite eggs are supposed to at 100x, more like a trichome. Thanks.
 
N

natureschild

New Member
Hey holylander

For the most part, all I've seen were the broad mite eggs, look like a small disco ball at 100x as you described. I've only actually seen one mite that for sure had legs and moved around, but there are tons and tons of what I'm guessing are eggs. They do look slightly similar to the tip of a trichome, but much smaller.

It's strange, because I can find the eggs on almost any leave. However, the only leaves that are damaged are the big fan leaves coming immediately off of the main stock. From there, after about a week into flower, the fan leaves on the branches start to wrinkle up, get crunchy, and then die as well. By The time i hit my last harvest over 70% of The fan leaves were gone. The mites never seemed like they attacked the leaves on the nodes or the buds themselves.

Could anybody chirp in and confirm that my dying fan leaves are due to the broad mites and not something else? I've treated 20 ladies that went into flower last week with avid, waited 3 days, forbid, waited 4 days, and just hit them with kontos. In 3 days I plan on using avid again and repeating all 3 pesticides.
 
Last edited:
Holylander

Holylander

Well-Known Member
natureschild said:
Hey holylander

For the most part, all I've seen were the broad mite eggs, look like a small disco ball at 100x as you described. I've only actually seen one mite that for sure had legs and moved around, but there are tons and tons of what I'm guessing are eggs. They do look slightly similar to the tip of a trichome, but much smaller.

It's strange, because I can find the eggs on almost any leave. However, the only leaves that are damaged are the big fan leaves coming immediately off of the main stock. From there, after about a week into flower, the fan leaves on the branches start to wrinkle up, get crunchy, and then die as well. By The time i hit my last harvest over 70% of The fan leaves were gone. The mites never seemed like they attacked the leaves on the nodes or the buds themselves.

Could anybody chirp in and confirm that my dying fan leaves are due to the broad mites and not something else? I've treated 20 ladies that went into flower last week with avid, waited 3 days, forbid, waited 4 days, and just hit them with kontos. In 3 days I plan on using avid again and repeating all 3 pesticides.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the reply and info.. I will keep looking myself, and it sounds like you are hitting them hard with your regime. Wishing you success taking them out!
 
N

natureschild

New Member
Alright, this new batch is about 10 days into flower and I'm still experiencing the same problems.

The big fan leaves coming immediately off the stock are all shriveling up and dying. Some turn yellow/rust, but a lot of them seem to keep their green but roll around and get crunchy. Just like my last run, it started with only the fan leaves off the main stock and didn't become a serious problem until I moved the ladies under the big lights.

I'm starting to see the fan leaves off the branches do the same thing now. There's a pattern: the leaves closest to the stock are affected first. The fan leafs on the branch are affected kind of in a series, with the leaf death making it's way out to the end of the branch. Again, its only the fan leaves. New growth and the leafs near the nodes seem to be ok.

Is this a typical trend for plants infected with broad mites? Or is there something else going on here?

Can somebody please offer some advice here? I can't afford to lose this crop! Any help is much apprecaited!!!!

20141023_010517.jpeg 20141023_010442.jpeg
 
N

natureschild

New Member
Here's 2 pics of some new girls that I moved into flower just last night. So far they look good, apart from some leaves clawing and some doing the taco. Could the claw be caused by the board mites as well? I've lightened up on the watering and don't think that I'm over-watering them. They're currently at approx 25 inches tall and receiving approx 300 mL each per day.
20141023_012227.jpeg 20141023_012315.jpeg
 
N

natureschild

New Member
I had spider mites that I eradicated (to my knowledge) about 3 weeks ago. Is it possible that what I think are broad mites are really just dead, unhatched spider mite eggs? I have not seen a single one of the mites/whatever move, but there are many of them and I can tell they aren't crystals or trichomes.

Are the leaves I have pictured and symptoms my plants are having consistent with broad mites or is there a chance there is something else going on here?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top